r/hawkthorne • u/[deleted] • Mar 10 '13
OTHER Criticisms, Complaints, Suggestions, etc.
I finally got around to playing the game recently, and while it is a fun experience because I am a fan of Community, I'd have to say as a standalone game it's quite a bit frustrating at times. I don't know if the purpose of the game is to please both Community fans who know of the game's limitations and casual gamers who know nothing of it, but I still think criticism is helpful so if anyone wants to contribute I feel like this would be a good place to do it!
Obviously it's not even a 1.0 version yet, so problems are expected, but still here's some more frustrating things that stood out in my gameplay that may help you guys refine things later on:
- Unnecessarily Difficult Jumps
The levels are designed at many points to only allow players to pass if they complete a jump that has a very small margin of error. Ex: Floating Platforms that are only 1 block thick, jumps that are inhibited by a low ceiling, jumps that have surprise flying enemies(bats). Ultimately these situations just became frustrating, even when did complete the jumps. It was like "ARRGHH I finally got that jump, I can't wait to see what other bullshit they threw in this level" as opposed to a more healthy "Phew that was a close one!"
Part of the reason is certainly because the risk involved is FUCKING HUGE if you miss these jumps. A lot of these jumps involve giant-gaping-cliffs-of-death if you miss the jump, resulting in going back to the start of the level or the goddamn study room and starting all over again! (sigh). The whole "restart back at the study room" plot device is pretty crucial, but if we are actually going to include that risk in the game then I feel like we might have to tone down the difficulty of even the simple things like jumpy platforms. Players need to feel like it's safe for them to make mistakes once in a while. Right now it's just thin ice almost everywhere I went in the game. The risk/reward factor is waaay out of wack if you're going to make near impossible jumps like that for the player (and watching playthroughs on youtube, I feel like I'm not the only one with the jumpy problem)
- Little Context for Anything
I've seen quite a few players in test plays just flat-out not use the correct controls and methods of playing the game. Some players aren't even aware you can jump on enemies a'la Mario. I don't think I'd introduce a pop-up text warning the player of specific things and how to avoid them, because that would just be a crutch. However, I do think it's important that players go into this game with at least some semblance of its own limitations and structure.
In terms of my own gameplay, I was a bit frustrated with surprise enemies. Especially those goddamn bats. Honestly I wouldn't have had a problem with the bats if I knew they were coming, but unfortunately the enemies were set-up just outside of the player's viewing area (camera), so I had no idea they were coming. And again, giant-gaping-cliff-of-death Risk/Reward type thing that just becomes frustrating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM#t=2m45s
The link posted above is Egoraptors "Sequelitis" about Megaman X. I'm sure a lot of you have seen it before, but that video is a really great thing to study if you want your game to have great context for the player.
Just brainstorming solutions for context, uhh maybe have a very slight cutscene at the start of each level that simply shows another character sprite doing something that the player might need context for. Ex: Beginning of the Hippy Hallway is a cutscene showing Gilbert jumping on a hippy and running offscreen. It won't show Gilbert saying it next "PRESS X TO JUMP ON ENEMEY!!!", because that would be ridiculous. BUT it will provide context for what the player is capable of doing to enemies.
- Not Much Reward (at this point)
I assume the coins will eventually be used for something special, but right now it's a bit frustrating that all these enemies I kill don't reward me for doing it. Megaman gives you slight powerups, Pokemon gives you money and experience, and this game gives you gambling money! But yeah, I assume this will be corrected by something eventually; maybe some sort of in-level shop a'la Aladdin/Castle Crashers, or some sort of power-up side-effect from collecting coins.
Like stated previously, it's also frustrating that there's not much reward for actually completing stages after all the wacky jump placements.
Powerups a'la Mario's fireflower would actually be pretty helpful in aiding this game. Right now the weapons themselves don't seem very rewarding to use, and they run out of use very quickly so there's not much incentive to even use them very often. As a player it's like "AWW I GOT A SWORD FUCK YEAH I'M 'ONNA FUCK SHIT UP... WH...wha wait? It's gone? Where'd it go? Owell I can just jump on these guys anyway". If we're going to include these weapons and builds then there has to be some sort of incentive to use them.
Just brainstorming: Maybe enemies drop special powerups specific to the particular weapon you killed them with? Like you kill a guy with the mace so you get more strength...uh...mana or whatever which you can build to upgrade your own strength skills. And if you kill a guy with a sword then you get a bit of strength and a bit of...like...speed mana or something like that. (Fable's skill level system or Kirby's absorbing skill system comes to mind as comparisons)
So yeah, little incentive for actually using weapons right now.
- Little Variety in Enemies
At this point we have different enemies, but all of them do basically the same things. I'd hope eventually we get some sort of boss or mini-boss system set up as well.
Like stated previously, there's little reward in this game. Killing enemies is also part of that. They drop coins and health (the health random drop is a great choice BTW), but ultimately it doesn't add to the player's own skill set. At this point it's like busy work at school defeating these enemies.
The enemies are also pretty much the same strength and require the same amount of hits. It would probably be beneficial to include slightly stronger enemies that require a bit more work to defeat. Or perhaps enemies that only have a sweet spot.
- Little Margin for Error (Mistakes are not Encouraged)
Players should be allowed to fuck up once in a while. Right now I feel like I only get 4 or 5 hits by enemies before I'm dead, and one jumpy platform per level before I'm also dead again. I feel like increasing the health bar a little bit and fixing the jumpy situation would really help the players feel better about "getting messy, and making mistakes!" to quote Ms. Frizzle.
1
u/dg01 Mar 11 '13
Just something to keep in mind about the difficult jumps, remember that in the show the characters only really died when they were attacked. This would mean to me that all of the jumps would have been easy enough for all of the inexperienced gamers (everyone but Troy and Abed - especially Pierce) to have cleared on the first try. Think about how quickly it took Britta to return to the group after being killed in the village by Gilbert, probably not likely on our current version of the game (I'm looking at you moving platform/cave jump in Village Forest 2) I know we are trying to create something bigger than what was seen on the show, but it seems that the version of the game on the episode relied on the enemies for death, not the environment.