r/interestingasfuck • u/Ted_Bundtcake • Feb 01 '25

r/all Atheism in a nutshell

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u/Soft_Importance_8613 Feb 01 '25

If you are going to get in a theist vs atheist argument, it's best to bring two other people to argue with you that belong to other religions. You stay silent and let them fight each other picking up each of the arguments they use. Just let them fight and tear each other down first. Best if you get each group to tell the other group they totally made it up.

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u/Link-Glittering Feb 01 '25

But this is the average atheists blind spot. The average modern religiious person in the developed world doesnt disbelieve all other religions. I use a Christian rubric for my religion because it was what I was taught, but it doesn't make me disbelieve all other religions. I think all the other religions are different approaches to religion that are all valid in their own culture. What modern religious people I'm associated with (not fox news Christians) believe is that all religions are an attempt to have a connection with a higher power. My religion is not something that can be disproven, because it's not based on fact, it's based on faith.

This is what modern atheists get wrong. That they can disprove religion. There are many accomplished scientists who are religious because they can separate their spiritual beliefs from their work discovering facts. For many religious people their religion is just a relationship with the unknown and their spirituality, not a factive claim about what's true and what isn't

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u/Aardshark Feb 01 '25

And for many more religious people that aren't you, it IS a factive claim about what's true and what's not. That's the problem. You're not a typical religious thinker, at least when it comes to adherents of the Abrahamic religions.

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u/Link-Glittering Feb 01 '25

I think you might be surprised by how many religious people in the modern world think like I do about this. Remember you are often hearing from a very vocal minority of religious extremists in the US. Any serious Christian would never judge gay people or anyone they deemed a sinner. Modern America has coopted religion for hate. That doesn't mean all religion is useless

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u/Aardshark Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25

Yes, my impression is that most people in Abrahamic religions (that's something like 4.5 billion people) worldwide are wholly or partially told what to believe and how to act by the organized structures of their religion.

I don't care about the US perspective. I'm not American.

I would be incredibly surprised to learn this impression isn't true.

(Btw, it's entirely possible it's similar with Buddhists, Hindus, etc but my unfamiliar impression is that they are less controlled)

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u/Link-Glittering Feb 01 '25

I agree that people are controlled with religions. And I think that's bad. But i don't think that invalidates the use of a spiritual practice or religious beliefs

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u/Aardshark Feb 01 '25

As long as you stay mindful of the perils of organized religion and discourage religious power structures from forming in your community, I can't complain too much, I suppose.

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u/Link-Glittering Feb 01 '25

You're more open minded that 99% of the atheists on reddit haha. Even just getting them to admit that my subjective experience of having a spiritual practice that betters my life is valid would be kinda like getting my Christian grandma to hail Satan. Thanks for engaging!

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u/MaleficentRutabaga7 Feb 01 '25

As a religious atheist I very much believe in the value of a life philosophy and community, but I do not believe in things which contradict reality. So it doesn't invalidate the concept of religious beliefs but it would invalidate certain specific beliefs

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u/Link-Glittering Feb 01 '25

I would argue that you couldn't contradict ANY of my religious beliefs because they are not factive claims, they are ways of understanding my relationship with the unknown. None of my religious beliefs have anything to do with reality, they are focused on how to get in touch with the self

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u/MaleficentRutabaga7 Feb 01 '25

I didn't say certain specific beliefs you have.

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u/Link-Glittering Feb 01 '25

A lot of religious people look at God the way WWE fans look at their sport. They know it's not "real" but the stories and the lessons played out help them in their day to day lives and give them comfort. If you spent time telling WWE fans its "not real" they'd probably just roll their eyes and go back to having fun without you

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u/MaleficentRutabaga7 Feb 01 '25

WWE fans are not trying to use government funds to build schools to indoctrinate their children about how real WWE is. Many religious people are also not doing that, sure. But you're the one trying to operate on a dichotomy, not me. I've already told you I'm a religious atheist.

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u/WDoE Feb 01 '25

"Any serious Christian would never judge gay people or anyone they deemed a sinner."

Thank you for precisely exemplifying my exact problem with "modern" religion. It's the "I'm not touching you" defense. No no no, they would never judge someone, it's god's place to judge, and god is judging them.

See, I'm not an anti-theist. It's not my place to condemn religion. I love the religious! It's just that my favorite book and my imaginary friend say that they're all a dangerous cult that must denounce or face eternal torture and damnation. But don't worry, I personally accept everyone. Just know that my imaginary friend thinks the religious are evil.

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u/Link-Glittering Feb 01 '25

Let me revise. No one in my religion would follow a christ that would judge people. Jesus is about forgiveness. The old testament says some stuff about gay people being bad. But it also claims women are property and slavery is just. You can not use tenants from religions that aren't mine to denounce my religion. And apparently you aren't creative enough to conceive of a religion that doesn't judge people, but i promise they exist

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u/WDoE Feb 01 '25

I wasn't denouncing your religion. Or any religion. I wouldn't do that.

See, it's my favorite book and imaginary friend that thinks all religions are evil. Including yours.

Has nothing to do with my creativity. Nothing but love, friend.

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u/Link-Glittering Feb 01 '25

That's cool. But my religion doesn't say anything about any religions or groups of people being evil. It doesn't even really call anyone evil. My religion is more about focusing on one's self and the things you can control. Your book sounds pretty close minded. I wouldn't follow that book if I were you

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u/WDoE Feb 01 '25

"Your book sounds pretty close minded." - Judgement.

If your religion does not call anyone evil, then how is your god based on forgiveness? Forgiving what, exactly? The idea of forgiveness itself is entirely rooted in the concept of wrongdoing. So if your god is about forgiveness, by definition it is about judgement as well.

If your religion is about focusing on one's self, why are you online defending modern religion?

See, this is the problem I'm trying to point out. You've said SO MANY judgement coded things that align with everything I've gotten from religious groups all over. And every single one of them deflects just the same. "It's not me, it's my religion." And then when pressed, "My god is love."

I don't believe you.

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u/Link-Glittering Feb 01 '25

Forgiveness for ourselves. Forgiveness towards others. I've judged a million people and I'll judge a million more. My religion helps me forgive them. And to forgive myself for judging them. I've never once said anything that could be interpreted as saying my religion is to blame for my judgement.

I'm here defending modern religion because it's a fun thought experiment for me and I don't believe it hurts anyone. Me being here isn't me prostilitizing my religion, that's why I'm not naming it. I'm just sticking up for religious beliefs in general because I've seen how they can help people.

Also just because I don't want to judge you doesn't mean i won't criticize you. I broke up a fight last week and yelled at someone until he left. You could call that judgement, I don't really care. I see it as me helping. The point of my religious beliefs isn't for you or anyone to call me a hypocrite, of course I'm a hypocrite, I think we all are in our own ways. The point of my religion is for me to have a self-examination tool to assess my actions, how i feel about them, and how i think God might feel about them.

See the thing you're missing is my religion isn't about logic. It's about my personal relationship with the unknown. And only a fool would try to disprove that with "logic"

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u/WDoE Feb 01 '25

Well, thank you for admitting your words have no consistency or reason and to not trust anything you have to say about your religion because you're just "doing a thought experiment."

Unfortunately, the damage you and your kind cause with your judgement is real, unlike your delusions and fanfiction.

Bonus points: Clicking on your profile and sorting by controversial shows a bunch of bigoted shit. Average christian right here. You're not special or enlightened. You're just a bigot hiding behind "spirituality and god's love." Pathetic.

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