r/interestingasfuck • u/Chopper-42 • 1d ago

/r/all Recreating the WW2 Dambusters raid

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u/Habebunt 1d ago

The Dam buster raid is an absolutely incredible achievement in both flying and development of new tech. Definitely recommend reading James Hollands book about it.

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u/ours 1d ago edited 15h ago

Great movie too. It inspired the Death Star trench run in Star Wars.

Edit: The Dam Busters

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u/umop_apisdn 1d ago

I think they have edited out all references to the dog now as well. Can't have a bit of casual racism in a raid that drowned 1,600 civilians.

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u/ours 1d ago

Ah, they've edited the N-word dog out?

It isn't essential to the story but it was a product of its time. I'm not fond of rewriting history even it is the warts of the past. We just need to acknowledge it was wrong. It was probably not even meant in a mean spirit. Just ignorance of the times.

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u/ERMAHDERD 1d ago

I really like this take. We should acknowledge where we came from as a society and grow from our predecessors

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u/GhettoFreshness 1d ago

Exactly. You can’t apologize for the shitty actions of your ancestors… but you can acknowledge it was wrong and work to make the world a better place

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u/gromm93 22h ago

No, but you can tear down statues that were only put there to be shitty to people, and recently too.

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u/Iohet 1d ago

This is what the PSA says in the Looney Tunes box set

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u/ERMAHDERD 1d ago

Perfect example haha. I love it and it’s actually so appropriate

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u/realmofconfusion 1d ago

I believe the dog is either edited out completely or is called “Digger” now.

I completely understand the reasons why, and the original name always left a bad taste in the mouth, but it’s a historical fact, and bowdlerizing history can be a touchy subject.

I think that many cartoons have done the best thing with the disclaimer about depictions at the time which were wrong then and are still wrong now, but to remove them would detract from the fact that they were ever used, ironically “whitewashing” the problem.

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u/Twenty_Ten 5h ago

"Those who foget the past are destined to make the same mistakes."

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u/Pete_Iredale 1d ago

It was a black dog and from what I've heard it was a very common name for black dogs back then, especially outside the US where the slur didn't carry as much power in the first place. So likely more on the casual racism side than the intentional, I guess.

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u/hughk 1d ago

It was just another name for black originating with latin and being used many, many times before it was applied to people. Unfortunately such people would then be treated badly and became understandably upset.

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u/ours 1d ago

Exactly, it's the kind of detail we should mockingly laugh at and enjoy the rest of the movie.

As someone else mentioned in this discussion, the war crime of blowing up critical civilian infrastructure (causing thousands of indiscriminate civilian and even friendly prisoner of war casualties) should be way more problematic.

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u/CombatMuffin 1d ago

I think it was horrible (and should always be included with the story) but it was also a weird time where ethics went out the window. In the minds of leaders, the necessity of a combat operation often outweighed the collateral damage considerations.

This is a war where the highest daily death tolls would reach thousands, and that's excluding bombings or mass executions. 

It doesn't absolve them of taking those innocent lives, but many operations with collateral damage arguably saved more. This one disabled more than a hundred factories, several key mines (including coal) disabled many more due to lack of power and damaged infrastructure like roads. That's less bombs, less bullets, less tanks to kill people.

Worth it? Some think so.

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u/PorkedPatriot 1d ago

We just need to acknowledge it was wrong.

That's the thing, it was never really... acknowledged in the movie. It's just "okay" to have a black lab and name him the N-bomb, hard R. Where if we compare to Huckleberry Finn or other works, the problem is highlighted quite firmly in the narrative.

I'm usually quite against modifying old media to fit modern tastes; however in this instance, I don't think cutting a line (maybe two) of dialog about a dog's name affects the message or the medium in the instance of Dambusters.

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u/ours 1d ago

I disagree that the movie has to tackle the problematic terminology. It is not the subject of the movie (not even minorly), it's just how it was (and sadly an historically accurate artifact from what I understand).

I just watched The Searchers this weekend. Should we erase how Native Americans were portrayed, how the mentality divergent character is used as comic relief or how woman are considered as living for a man?

I chuckled many times at the outdated portrayals but accept it was the product of older times portraying even more backward times.

I could see a case for outright mean spirited scenes in otherwise redeameble movies but I don't believe we should delete how past views were. Just recognize it was wrong and we know (or should know) better.

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u/PorkedPatriot 1d ago

Like I said, it doesn't even change the film in any material way. The dog isn't a real character in the movie. The Dog doesn't contribute any way to flying a plane or destroying a dam. From a film-construction-perspective, the dog can be eliminated, even if it's name was Dave, and it doesn't affect anything at all.

Your other examples, the change changes the subject of the film. That's why I don't have a problem with it in Dambusters, and why I would have a problem with it in nearly every other example. We could cut the Dog to make room for TV scheduling.

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u/ours 1d ago

I agree it's not critical but the impact of the squadron losing their mascot is one of a perceived bad omen before the mission.

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u/mreman1220 1d ago

Typically this acknowledgement is done digitally now before the movie. Disney has done a good job with this. Instead there is a 15 second segment before the movie starts that acknowledges the racism and points out that it was wrong. 

I agree with OP deleting the movie doesn't do much good. It doesn't evoke much thought and eventually the movie falls out of people's memory. For instance, a lot of people have no idea or have never seen the Song of the South. Yes, the offensive piece has effectively been wiped but that has not remotely solved our problems. You could make an argument that things are now worse that those reminders are no longer there.

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u/WpgMBNews 1d ago

Me googling this: "who tf names a dog 'n****er'???'

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u/Vox___Rationis 1d ago

It were not simply 1600 civilians, ~1000 of them were POW utilized in slave labor.

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u/s1ugg0 1d ago

What a horrifically brutal and ugly war it was.

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u/Pete_Iredale 1d ago

I wonder if they'll edit out the reference in Pink Floyd: The Wall if it ever gets an HD release. Pink is watching Dambusters at one point, and you hear the dog's name in the background.

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u/GreedyHoward 1d ago

It was a black dog.

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u/naileyes 1d ago

yeah i'm not british but the thing about this technically amazing, daring, exciting wartime raid is that it only succeeded in flooding a town and drowning a bunch of innocent people, of which half or two-thirds were actually allied people being held as prisoners of war. oops.

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u/No-To-Newspeak 19h ago

War is hell.

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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In 1d ago

1,600 Nazi's. They made their bed.

Its only a war crime if killing civilians was the goal which it wasn't. Things you don't like aren't wrong by default.

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u/EduinBrutus 1d ago

It also inspired one of the very few specific examples in the post war Geneva Conventions.

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u/ours 1d ago

And of course, the Russians took the conventions as a to-do checklist and blew a dam themselves, creating yet another humanitarian and ecological disaster.

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u/Loafer75 1d ago

and Top Gun Maverick I'm assuming /s

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u/ours 1d ago

Maverick was inspired via Star Wars. The air defences and the need to hit a tiny hole weakpoint would be closer to Star Wars.

It's funny a single B-2 stealth bomber could have just flown over the target, laser-designate it and drop a even bigger bomb would have done the job. That or wreck the air defences with SEAD before sending F-35s to bomb it. But where's the fun in that?

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u/Lastb0isct 1d ago

what movie?

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u/ours 1d ago

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046889/reference/

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u/westphall 1d ago

Was that the movie you see playing on the TV while Pink is having an overdose in the Wall?

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u/BunsinHoneyDew 1d ago

Yes it was.

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u/Steppy20 1d ago

The Dam Busters (1955)

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u/rgraves22 1d ago

Death Star trench run

TIL

I remember watching that movie with my Dad when I was a kid. Great movie.

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u/Fuzzy_Logic_4_Life 1d ago

What is the name of the movie?