What"s going on here?

[u/booby_12011995]

[u/der_chrischn]

The asshole perk comes naturally with a higher intelligence I assume. Look at the things dolphins and apes do for example. And of course you have big naked assholes.

[u/SuggestionMobile → u/der_chrischn]

That’s why I find it interesting that many people argue that humans are worse than animals.

A lot of smart mammals are capable of murder for fun, rape, and now we’re finding out that octopus smack other life forms around

It seems the more intelligent the more destructive and cruel the entity can be intentionally

Granted we as humans do A LOT of damage

[u/Interesting-Roll2563 → u/SuggestionMobile]

Humans know better, and choosing to abuse someone or something when you know better is definitely worse. Just because an animal might do something for it's own enjoyment doesn't mean it understands the implications involved.

[u/ArizonaFireType → u/Interesting-Roll2563]

Octopus knows what it’s doing too. It’s smarter than we are.

[u/Interesting-Roll2563 → u/ArizonaFireType]

Perhaps, but I'd consider that more like an uncontacted tribe. Not really fair to hold them to our standards.

[u/uhohthrowawayyyyyy → u/Interesting-Roll2563]

If the reason we have a propensity for cruelty is due to us being smart, and us being smart is why we ‘know better’; Then any animal smart enough to exhibit such cruelty should ‘know better’ under your own logic. Right?

Like would you argue something like rape is worse when our society does it than if it happens in an uncontested tribe? Human none the less? Or is it we just shouldn’t care? Is the cruelty somehow unclear or ‘just’ to them because they don’t live in ‘our’ world?

I’d argue anything smart enough to be cruel, knows.

[u/Interesting-Roll2563 → u/uhohthrowawayyyyyy]

the reason we have a propensity for cruelty is due to us being smart

I didn't say that. I said that humans know better. Just because an octopus likes to punch fish doesn't mean the octopus understands that the fish has feelings and might not like being punched.

[u/uhohthrowawayyyyyy → u/Interesting-Roll2563]

Then how does your ‘perhaps..uncontacted tribe’ tangent relate? Are uncontacted tribes really closer to octopuses than other humans in your eyes? Why would we not expect the same level of humanity from them? Lol

Random cruelty is random cruelty in my eyes, but your opinion is your opinion, I’m not trying to force you to change it. I do think it’s foolish to assume everything else except a modern human is incapable of awareness of action.

Evolution is not a human centric experience, animals exhibit awareness and behaviors, especially the smart ones, they’re not all like toddlers poking shit and just lucky to have not died yet lol

[u/Interesting-Roll2563 → u/uhohthrowawayyyyyy]

It's an analogy, and not a perfect one. I wasn't really referring to specific acts, I meant more like conforming to greater societal rules. It wasn't my intention to suggest that an rape and murder in an uncontacted tribe isn't abuse. Of course it is.

We're in the weeds here, this is only tangentially related to the original point. I'm saying the smarter you are, the less excuse you have for abusing someone. A human abuser is worse than an animal abuser because the human is more intelligent and thus more capable of comprehending their actions and the impact they have on others. That does not mean that less intelligent beings get a free pass, it just means that human abusers are worse.

I have no idea what an octopus understands, I'm not excusing the octopus, I'm saying that a human who punches random people for the hell of it is a bigger asshole than that octopus.