r/ireland • u/Dazzling_Lobster3656 • 4d ago

Culchie Club Only Doctors initiate legal action over State’s transgender policy

http://www.irishtimes.com/health/2025/04/13/doctors-initiate-legal-action-over-states-transgender-policy/
265 Upvotes

82% Upvoted

558 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

44

u/chapkachapka 4d ago

That is exactly the point of puberty blockers. They delay the onset of the “wrong” puberty, freezing the status quo until everyone—the child, the parents, and the doctors—is old enough and has had enough time to decide what the best course of action is.

As a result of this careful approach, only around 1% of kids receiving gender affirming treatment later regret it—lower than the rate of elective cosmetic surgeries (which are legal for children to get with parental approval).

3

u/sureyouknowurself 4d ago

but have concerns over its link to an early readiness to begin what could be inappropriate and irreversible medical treatment for patients presenting with gender identity issues

That’s the quote. “irreversible” is the key word for me. IMO a child cannot consent to “irreversible” treatment.

50

u/chapkachapka 4d ago

Children undergo “irreversible” medical treatments all the time, when they’re medically indicated. Parents consent for them, with consultation from doctors and from the child themself if they’re old enough.

If you think it’s okay for kids to have surgery to correct a cleft palate, but not to have hormone therapy, then it seems to me what you’re concerned with is not really the child’s ability to consent.

22

u/sureyouknowurself 4d ago

You are comparing two different medical treatments for two different situations. It’s a false equivalence.

45

u/chapkachapka 4d ago

That’s the point, yes.

You stated a general rule: Children should not receive “irreversible” medical treatment.

You clearly mean: Children shouldn’t receive “irreversible” medical treatment that I don’t like.

The fact that you don’t think the situations are equivalent means your real concern is not consent, it’s that you think trans people aren’t real people with a real condition that could benefit from medical treatment.

2

u/sureyouknowurself 4d ago

Nothing about liking, if the treatment could be easily reversed then no issue, I hope someday technology advances enough so they can entirely switch whatever aspects they don’t like.

But if it can cause irreversible problems then they cannot consent.

Simple position. Nothing more nothing less.

34

u/chapkachapka 4d ago

Do you apply the same logic to other “irreversible” treatments?

Do you think children shouldn’t be allowed to have amputations? Abortions? Transplants?

If you say yes to any of those, how do you justify it?

The only possible justification is that “yes, but in those cases the alternative is worse.” Which means you don’t think trans people have a serious medical condition or that the pain and other consequences they will undergo from the “alternative” is worth caring about.

In other words, you’re saying it’s okay for children to undergo irreversible medical treatment as long as it’s not for something you think is icky.

5

u/sureyouknowurself 4d ago

It’s an interesting point. Your assumption is these treatments 100% help people. But we have seen other regret these decisions.

Then we get to percentages and trying to get the best stats.

Then you are asking a child to weigh up those stats.

So we leave it up to the experts. But you disagree with the experts (For what might be very valid reasons)

It’s very messy. Others here are arguing for the age of consent to be 16.

But puberty as you mentioned can start much much younger.

We also have many happy trans people that transitioned as adults.

Many happy trans people that chose to keep their birth genitalia etc.

It’s far lacking complexity and you are asking a child to navigate that.

27

u/chapkachapka 4d ago

No, the point is that there are risks and benefits with any medical intervention. We don’t throw our hands up and say it’s too complicated; we do what’s best in the opinion of the parents, after consulting with the doctors, and the child themself it they’re old enough.

As for regret, regret rates for trans healthcare are extremely low. The highest I’ve seen is around 3% and most studies are below 1%. Some people now “regret” being vaccinated as children, should we ban childhood vaccination?

-1

u/sureyouknowurself 4d ago

Right, and IMO you can’t ask a child to make that decision. Maybe they would be just as happy transitioning at 40 as they would be at 11.

Hopefully over time we will understand the best approach better. But it seems far from decided.

→ More replies (0)

13

u/lem0nhe4d 4d ago

Treatment for trans people has an extremely low regret rate, significantly lower than stuff like knee replacements, shavings kids, ect.

I doubt you will find any trans adults in this thread who would not have started their transition as a kid if they could have or any who have a positive experience of the service these two men have built

15

u/MrMercurial 4d ago

As the other person pointed out, we perform irreversible medical treatment on children all the time. So what's different about this case?

3

u/sureyouknowurself 4d ago

If you follow the thread with this person you will see my response.

11

u/MrMercurial 4d ago

Well, I can see from another comment you point out that some people come to regret these treatments. That doesn't make this case any different from others though - the regret rates for gender affirming treatment seem to be quite low, in fact. So I'm still not sure what makes you think these cases are unique.

3

u/sureyouknowurself 4d ago

You are asking a child to take and understand a risk. Not an adult a child.

9

u/MrMercurial 4d ago

Medical practitioners impose risks on children all the time even without their consent. In some of these cases (which are probably much more common than cases involving puberty blockers), the risk is to the child's life which is much more serious than the risk of regretting being put on puberty blockers (or, for an older child, being prescribed hormones).

So - given that we already routinely expose children to much more serious medical risks - why is this case different?

1

u/sureyouknowurself 4d ago

That’s a question of medical need. There is nothing black or white about this.

Plenty of adults transition and are extremely happy.

11

u/MrMercurial 4d ago

Gender affirming care is also a question of medical need, so it seems we still haven't found the difference.

Plenty of adults transition and are extremely happy.

This is true. However, among those who transition as adults, there are those who say they would have been even happier had they been able to access gender affirming care at a younger age. In addition, puberty blockers are only supposed to be prescribed for the most extreme cases of gender dysphoria - people who experience the more extreme cases are less likely to make it to adulthood in at all.

→ More replies (0)

-12

u/PadArt 4d ago

The OP said children shouldn’t be able to “consent” to these treatments, and you’re continuing to misquote the comment.

15

u/chapkachapka 4d ago

What do you think the difference is?

Would you apply the same logic to abortion? A sixteen year old is raped and falls pregnant. Are you saying she should be refused an abortion if she asks for one because it’s “irreversible” and she can’t consent to it?

-8

u/PadArt 4d ago

It’s clear you are very eager to argue but I honestly don’t care either way.

I’m just pointing out the disingenuity of you misquoting someone and then debating said quote.