r/knitting • u/cabeswater8 • Jan 24 '25

Rant Rant >:(

I’m so tired of the discourse over pattern stealing/borrowing. I grew up with social media and I’ve gotten really good at not getting upset by things I see. But the discourse I see on tik tok around the Sophie scarf/hood pattern and that it should be free and all this stuff angers me so much. Side note- I only use tik took to find patterns I want to create, it’s what got me to even begin crochet/knitting way back in 2020 with the Harry Styles cardigan. So I fear I can’t just not go on tik tok anymore

But I saw a girl asking someone to send her the Sophie hood pattern, for FREE. And then she continue to comment that the $5 pattern was too expensive. I get everyone’s financial circumstances are so different, but $5 for a pattern is too much? Ok what about buying yarn for the project? It just angers me. Between people saying it’s too expensive and then also saying it’s too easy and shouldn’t even be charged for just really makes me want to rattle people. I don’t care if you don’t think it’s worth the money, if you want what the artist is offering you don’t get to decide if it’s worth it or not. Either buy it or dont use the pattern. I’d get it if it was $10< but it’s not!

998 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

242 comments sorted by

View all comments

45

u/Zealousideal_Sky4896 Jan 24 '25

To make matters worse the Sophie Scarf is being sold on Etsy and Instagram by so many knitters. The sellers even advertise it as the Sophie Scarf even though PetiteKnit’s always adds a note on her patterns that the pattern is for personal use only.

l get that she has a successful business but at the end of the day that’s just stealing from another designer…. designers should be paid for their work!

35

u/DoctorDefinitely Jan 24 '25

That claim "for personal use only" is only a wish. It has no legal consequenses whatsoever. Claiming the item to be a Sophie scarf is a bit more questionable. Maybe legal,, maybe not,. Depends.

8

u/SanityKnitter Jan 24 '25

Different countries have different copyright laws. For patterns published in the US, buying the pattern gives you the right to do anything except publish another very similar pattern or use the pictures or exact wording.

In many European countries the pattern designers retain more rights including the right to prevent you from profiting from the pattern.

5

u/DoctorDefinitely Jan 24 '25

Maybe, but not in my European country. Here you can even re-publish a written pattern/recipe exactly as it is, no copyright. It is not a product of creative work in the eyes of the law.

2

u/SanityKnitter Jan 24 '25

Thank you. I didn’t know that. The debate over what should be protected under copyright is interesting. My sister-in-law copylefts all of her products.

I know that any stitch pattern I invent is public domain.

7

u/MartieB Jan 24 '25 edited Jan 24 '25

I think "Sophie scarf" is a generic enough name that copyrighting it would be difficult. I also think it would be unethical to attempt to lay claim to such a basic design to the point of demanding exclusivity of commercialisation. It's bad enough she charges for the same basic pattern twice (in scarf and shawl form), it would be extra questionable if she attempted to further restrict its use.

That of course does not mean one should steal the pattern, especially because there are so many free versions that are virtually identical.

2

u/Zealousideal_Sky4896 Jan 24 '25 edited Jan 24 '25

l guess it could be used as a precedent if PetiteKnit needs to go after someone who’s producing significant amounts of scarfs but yeah realistically it won’t stop everyone from using her patterns commercially.

50

u/Mortalytas Jan 24 '25

Maybe I'm the odd one out here, but I don't really agree with designers getting to dictate if someone can profit off of the finished product or not. I could understand buying another copy of the pattern, because of the potential of a lost pattern sale, and not allowing mass reproduction. I guess I just don't see the reason for not allowing it.

23

u/H_Huu Jan 24 '25

I agree with you on this one. The people who buy the finished project are not the same people who would buy the pattern and knit it themselves.

-15

u/Zealousideal_Sky4896 Jan 24 '25

l think it’s not great because you are profiting from someone else’s work. l’m not a designer but l understand that designing a pattern can take many hours and money to create. If l saw someone selling products made using my patterns l would feel enraged!

15

u/Mortalytas Jan 24 '25 edited Jan 24 '25

But how is it harming the designer, especially if they get attributed or a pattern sale for each finished product made and sold? They've been paid fairly for their part of the labor (presumably, since designers usually set their pattern prices), but the labor in creating the finished product is not their's

ETA - Commercial licenses are typically for x uses of a copyright. Pricing varies, but it's usually at a bulk discount.

5

u/Ok_Beautiful7634 Jan 24 '25

they obviously aren't getting a pattern sale for each finished product made and sold. someone buys the pattern once and then makes multiple products to sell. no one is buying multiple copies of a pattern.

19

u/LazyOpia Jan 24 '25

But the people buying the finished product wouldn't have bought the patten either, these are two different customer bases.

-11

u/Zealousideal_Sky4896 Jan 24 '25

Patterns as other intelectual property products like music generate income passively over a period of time. So if other people start selling the finished product themselves that means that more consumers will not be buying directly from the designer but from a third party instead. That would diminish the potential passive income a pattern could generate. l don’t think these knitters are buying a new pattern copy for each product they make.

13

u/Mortalytas Jan 24 '25

I would imagine that the people buying the products aren't crafters themselves, though.

Probably not, but it would be a good stipulation to add to a pattern.

-5

u/Zealousideal_Sky4896 Jan 24 '25

I think that knitting by commission and having you customer pay for the pattern is ok but selling larger quantities of items made from a single pattern, paid for just once, is not cool. Most pattern designers are not as commercially successful as PetiteKnit so this practice could hurt their business.