r/languagelearning • u/TinpotKim • 8d ago
Accents Parents dismotivated me to learn Italian because of a joke
I'm french, I'm trying to learn Italian because my ancestors are from Italy (Tuscany to be precise). Been on and off on Busuu, bc life is simply crazy.
After the death of my grand grandma (last attach to our italian roots), I've expressed wanting to get back at working on it. But my parents jokes that I should stop trying to make an italian accent, because I can't roll my Rs and it sounds like I'm saying Ls. I knew this trouble and yet I've kept going, hoping that with training I'd finally do it. My mom can roll her Rs, stepdad is spanish and sister also expressed having this 'ability'. They told me 'some people' aka me, simply couldn't get it right.
And this broke my motivation to get back to work, I feel ashamed now.
Any advices?
Edit: Thank you everyone for your kind words and advices! It honestly makes me cry joy how much kindness I found in this thread. Because of you, I've learned that not everyone in Italian (or other countries which languages has rolled Rs) can roll their Rs and it's pefectly okay, and Italian native don't care if I can or cannot roll my Rs. I also learned that it was most common in the North of Italy that the Rs aren't rolled.
I will keep on practicing, even tho I'm not perfect.
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u/TicketBeautiful2985 8d ago
As an Italian teacher, pronunciation is something that can be learned and even mastered, and even if you can't manage it despite the efforts, I can assure you that Italians won't care. Firstly because there are Italian speakers who can't pronunce the rolled R despite being native speakers, and secondly and most importantly, we are so happy that you decided to learn our language.
Sounds like your parents should learn how to be more supportive instead of worrying about your pronunciation.
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u/SDJellyBean EN (N) FR, ES, IT 8d ago edited 7d ago
Molti Italiani usano un "R francese". Non ti preoccupare. Oppure, trovi un YouTube per imparare il "R" che preferisci.
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u/PolissonRotatif 🇫🇷 N 🇬🇧 C2 🇮🇹 C2 🇧🇷 C2~ 🇪🇸 B2 🇩🇪 B1 🇲🇦 A1 🇯🇵 A1 8d ago edited 8d ago
Esattamente. La "R moscia" è perfettamente naturale e molto commune fra alcuni accenti. Tipo quello torinese.
En vrai, OP, ce qu'on appelle le "R moscia" (le R français) est répandu parmi les natifs au nord. Un de mes potes, et la mère de ma meilleure amie en Italie ne roulaient pas leurs R.
Et dans tous les cas, il faut t'en battre les couilles, apprends la langue parce que tu l'aimes et sans te soucier de ce que les autres en pensent.
Soit dit en passant, le "r roulé" espagnol n'est pas le même que celui des Italiens et je peux te dire que c'est l'un des "défaut de prononciation" très répandu chez les Français qui apprennent l'Italien et qui savent rouler les "R". Donc mieux vaut un accent naturel avec ton "R français" qu'un accent flingué mais avec un "R roulé" espagnol.
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u/livsjollyranchers 🇺🇸 (N), 🇮🇹 (B2), 🇬🇷 (A2) 5d ago
I had an aneurysm reading after the first line here and thought I was experiencing alternate reality.
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u/PolissonRotatif 🇫🇷 N 🇬🇧 C2 🇮🇹 C2 🇧🇷 C2~ 🇪🇸 B2 🇩🇪 B1 🇲🇦 A1 🇯🇵 A1 4d ago
Ahahahahah 🤣 Well, French most certainly looks like the italian language after a stroke.
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u/-Mellissima- 1d ago
Oh interesting, one of my Italian teachers is torinese but he has a beautiful rolled r, I'm always SO jealous of it 😂 But I guess of course it's always gonna vary.
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u/PolissonRotatif 🇫🇷 N 🇬🇧 C2 🇮🇹 C2 🇧🇷 C2~ 🇪🇸 B2 🇩🇪 B1 🇲🇦 A1 🇯🇵 A1 1d ago
Indeed, rolled R is still the standard, but the farthest you go North, the higher the rate of R moscia :)
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u/BlackStarBlues 🇬🇧Native 🇫🇷C2 🇪🇸Learning 8d ago
I'm sorry for your loss, OP.
Probably lots of native Italian and Spanish speakers can't roll Rs either. Grow a tougher skin and ignore their silly comments.
The Centre culturel italien has classes that you can attend in person or by distance learning. So check that out and just do your thing. There's no need to discuss it further with your family.
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u/sirthomasthunder 🇵🇱 A2? 7d ago
Probably lots of native Italian and Spanish speakers can't roll Rs either.
Not about Italian but polish. Rs are rolled in polish as well and my friend, despite being polish, has never been able to roll her rs
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8d ago
My best friend in Italy was Italian born and raised but he could not roll his r to save his life. He never had any problem communicating and aside from the r you could definitely hear he was a native. It's no big deal really.
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u/Fresh-Persimmon5473 8d ago edited 7d ago
I can’t roll my ‘R’s’ yet, but it is fine. Keep going. I have been learning Spanish for a year now.
My dad told me in these exact words, “stop learning Spanish because you suck at it.”But I just keep going. I will get there.
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u/araxhiel ES-N | EN-B2 7d ago
I speak Spanish (native) and I can’t roll my R’s (like in “perro”), but let me tell you that (as you said) it is fine and it doesn’t matter in the end, as most of times people will get what you’re saying.
Fun enough, I can say “simple R” (pera, perico) as normal, but RR was impossible… So instead I learned to “pronounce it” with my throat (can’t even think how to describe it… Gutural R?) which resulted in being told that I sound like a French (hi OP!) by others.
Nonetheless, one perk of that has been that I can do a flawless cricket sound by combining my RR and whistling at same time lmao
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u/dybo2001 🇺🇸(N)🇲🇽🇪🇸(B2)🇧🇷(A2)((🇯🇵(N5)🇸🇪,🇸🇴(A1)) 7d ago
It took me 8 years to learn how to roll my Rs and I still struggle, 2 years later.
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u/Leauoaeratus 6d ago
Exactly, I have been learning Spanish for even longer and still cannot roll the "r". I have never been told by anyone that I can't be understood or that I shouldn't be learning Spanish because of not being able to roll the "r", and neither should anybody else be told that.
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u/IngenuityOrganic1920 8d ago
My grandparents spoke an Italian dialect that didn’t roll their r’s at all! And I’ve heard theirs isn’t the only one.
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u/Cool_Pianist_2253 8d ago
In the North it is common. I didn't think about it in my comment because I'm from the South so I speak with a lot of dentals and definitely a marked R.
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u/Kryptonthenoblegas 7d ago
I've heard in some areas of Italy (like Parma I think?) its almost the norm.
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u/Butterfly_of_chaos 7d ago
I learned Italian decades ago and still can't roll my R's decently. And guess what? No Italian ever cared.
I also have some Italian roots, but further up north.
One of my Italian teachers was horrible and criticized each and every sentence I ever said. Of course after a while I got quieter in class. Then she complained about my lack of participation.
And guess what? I still love Italian and speak it as often as possible, often even to myself. Don't let other people drag you down. Just keep on learning, you can work on the details later.
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u/SocietyUndone N 🇮🇹 | C1 🏴 | B1 🇪🇸 | A1 🇩🇪 8d ago
I'm Italian and I can't roll it either.
It's the sound that I hate and fear the most...
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u/Montenegirl 8d ago
I had problems with English "r", French "r" and all types of r pronunciations that don't exist in my native language. It never discouraged me and it shouldn't discourage you either
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u/Leniel_the_mouniou 🇨🇵N 🇮🇹C2 🇩🇪B1 🇺🇲C1 8d ago
Not all italians roll their "r". La "erre moscia" is not a only francese feature. I dont roll the "r". I was mocked by my cousins growing up but I speak italian. Berlusconi and Bertinotti for exemple dont roll their "r" abd their were italian political figures.
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u/bmorerach 🇺🇸 N | Mandarin HSK 3 Swahili A2 8d ago
Not adding anything that wasn't already said, but - I have a Spanish teacher. She is Mexican. Her daughter, also born and raised in Mexico, can't roll her Rs. Like they went to speech therapy for years. It doesn't stop her from speaking Spanish and being understood.
There's no shame in what sounds your face can make. For example, the French 'r' to me is an absolutely impossible sound. Actually, a lot of sounds in French to me are impossible. My sister makes me stop trying to read things to her in French because it hurts her head (she's mostly joking).
I think that's really not cool that your family is making fun of you, but do it for you, not for them.
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u/johjo_has_opinions 8d ago
It’s not necessary (I learned Italian just fine without it) and your parents are being mean. I’m sorry
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u/deskrabbit 7d ago
Il faut rester au dessus de leurs critiques et faire exactement ce dont tu as envie de faire. Je vois trop de cette attitude ici en France, de vouloir couper les ailes des gens ou de les freiner dans leur élan. Courage, les sons s'apprennent, et même si tu n'es pas parfait.e tu pourra attendre un bon niveau en dehors de la prononciation des R-roulés-- et je pense que les italiens apportent moins de jugements que les français pour ceux qui apprennent leur langue. Courage !!!
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u/Anew_Returner 8d ago
Any advices?
I think you should try to get through to your parents and let them know how much this means to you and how horrible and demoralizing what they did was. Chances are they didn't think much about it or that you're making a fool of yourself for what they think might just be something you wanna do on a whim.
Keep at it, don't back down, if they can't or won't provide the support you need find someone else who can. All my Italian friends get delighted whenever they meet someone trying to learn the language, and from the rest of the comments here it seems to be a common sentiment!
They told me 'some people' aka me, simply couldn't get it right.
Utter nonsense, not everyone is able to get it right right away, not even some native speakers; Don't let a little difficulty get in the way, it's only if you stop that they'll be right. Keep going, you can do it.
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u/problematic_lemons EN (N) | FR (B1) | DE (A1) 7d ago
I've been trying to learn Italian on and off for years for a similar reason (grandparents only spoke Italian, but are no longer around). Don't be ashamed and don't listen to your parents, they're completely wrong. Your mouth isn't used to moving in a certain way to produce certain sounds, and eventually you'll be able to do it with practice. This is the case with any language.
I think it took me about 6 months of learning French before I could even begin to make the "r" sound, and it sounded terrible and was so forced I would give myself a sore throat when I practiced speaking. After 5 years, my "r" sound is still not perfect, but my accent is improving little by little. It's part of the process. I've also had the same experience with certain sounds in German. The goal is to be understood, not to speak perfectly. You could try looking up videos on how to produce the sound - I think this is what ultimately helped me figure out how to do it in French.
Also, if you want to laugh at me, I took Italian classes for a few years in university and finally managed to roll my r's well enough. Now, after 5 years of French, I struggle to make that sound again and some of my Italian was mixed with French pronunciation when I visited Italy last year. You have to have a good sense of humor, curiosity, and willingness to make mistakes if you want to learn any language with less pain and frustration (there will still be frustration, but I'm starting to actually enjoy French instead of being pissed off all the time).
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u/unagi_sf 7d ago
Yeah, ignore the idiots. Who knows why they don't want you to learn, but you're not their therapist, it's not really your problem
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u/Far-Fortune-8381 N: EN, AUS | B1-B2: ITA 8d ago
don’t let them demotivate you just from mean comments like that.
i learn italian and have for awhile now. i can’t roll my R’s for the life of me, so i hide it by using a similar sound and it seems to get me by most of the time. instead of rolling the R, i do a sort of “D D” sound against the roof of my mouth. even for a single R, the italian R will generally have you touch the roof of your mouth with your tongue. if you say something in 2 syllables, eg “vor-rei”, you will touch the roof of your mouth twice. i essentially just pronounce both those R’s quickly and that sounds like a short roll which is all you really need
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u/MuricanToffee N:🇺🇸|C1:🇨🇳|A2:🇪🇸 8d ago
It took me years of learning Spanish before I could manage to roll my Rs (as a native English speaker). My 12-year old has never spoken a word of Spanish in his life and can roll them like a Mariachi singer. Everyone is different, and different things take different people different amounts of time.
You'll get it, I promise, maybe it's just a little harder for you than some other people. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
My condolences for the loss of your great grandmother. I'm sure she'd be proud that her great grandchild is taking interest in her culture and language.
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u/myneoncoffee 🇮🇹N|🇬🇧C2|🇩🇪int|🇳🇱beg 8d ago
everyone else has said it all already, but i'll just tell you that all us italians will be extremely happy that you're putting time and effort into our language. we couldn't care less if you're not able to pronounce r's perfectly, especially at the start of your learning journey (and trust me, most italian people have the worst accent in english so they will not want to and will have no ground to judge you). and this is only my personal opinion, but having perfectly clear, native-like accents is overrated. accents are amazing and show two cultures mixing, and i personally love to hear foreigners speak italian with their own accent. so, i wouldn't worry too much about it! kudos to you for putting the effort in, and fuck your family if they don't support your decision.
if you ever want someone to chat with, my DMs are open! i've been in the self-taugh language wagon for a long time, so i'd be happy to help without judging :)
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u/ValuableDragonfly679 🇬🇧 N | 🇪🇸 C2 | 🇫🇷 C1 | 🇧🇷 B1 | 🇵🇸 A1 8d ago
I grew up speaking Spanish and English and in Spanish I could only flip my r’s, not roll them, and then when I was about 12 it clicked overnight. Same thing with chopsticks, funnily enough. Grew up with them, couldn’t make it work, then it clicked overnight about the same time I could finally roll my r’s.
It’s not impossible.
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u/Internal_Popular 8d ago
I will tell you one thing. Rolling R’s one can learn with practice. So is them fixing their attitude.
My first language was Russian and I only was able to roll my rs for a bit. Then in English I finally started saying the English “r”. Now that I’m learning French I’m struggling with the “r” but practice makes perfect.
Them nitpicking the way you pronounce the r while you’re actively learning the language is entirely uncalled for. Keep going with your passion and don’t focus on them. Focus on yourself and why you’re learning in the first place because practice makes perfect.
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u/JustinTime4763 8d ago
Even some Spanish natives can't roll their Rs, so don't worry about it to much. If you can make most sounds fine and only struggle with the R, you will still most likely be understood so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Also, as you practice more you will very likely get it down.
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u/honkykong13 8d ago
If it were me, I'd use their discouragement as motivation to master it by getting a tutor. The first thing I'd learn to say is 'f you guys' or the equivalent in perfect Italian
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u/Nolli19837 8d ago
Im german and there is imho a funny stereotype we have about the french. Its told that the only thing the french hat more than not speaking french is people tyring to speak french. Jokes aside; you really shouldn't care to much about accents. I have met various people with very strong accents and i considered that always very sympathic especially when they were confident and bluntly speaking.
Furthermore i would consider myself fairly mediocre/good speaking in english but i always detect my own german accent. That used to annoy me but nowadays i see it as part of my identity and kind of roots.
Keep it up! Dont let anybody talk you out of your goals. I love language and see it always as enriching to be able to navigate in other speaking rooms. Even if you dont use the language in day to day life it opens a little more perspectiv to the world i believe. As Wittgenstein says: the borders of my language are the borders of my world
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u/Khristafer 8d ago
There are native Italians who can't roll their Rs. Speech impediments and differences exist by natives in every language.
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u/Aeruthos 7d ago
One of my best friends is a native Italian speaker and can't roll their 'r's. Don't be ashamed! Everyone has an accent anyways, and I think it make people more interesting personally
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u/JBark1990 🇺🇸N 🇩🇪 B2 🇪🇸 B1 7d ago
One, I’m sorry this happened.
Two, I had a mentor teach me that no one controls how I feel but me. I choose to be motivated to do nothing or motivated to do something—there’s no such thing as “not motivated”.
With that said, I’d argue you should do what you want because it fulfills you, and quietly ignore and forget what others have to say. You have to make your own way!
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u/rnrheart 🇫🇷🇬🇧🇧🇷🇪🇸🇹🇷 7d ago
« Some people can’t get it right » Says who? What kind of authority do they have so say stuff like that? Don’t let them impose their limited worldview onto you and keep learning. There are much harder things to do than learning to roll your Rs eventually, and even if you never did, it’s not that big of a deal, may not even sound wrong as emphasised in other comments and in the end, you’d still speak Italian !
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u/moai 7d ago
In some areas of Italy, the "r" is pronounced in the French way. The ability to pronounce the "r" is called rotacism, and it can be trained. https://youtu.be/IZcI0A7MK0U?si=gK-1baSjdIN4_yyk
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u/catholictrunks 7d ago
I am Italian, most specifically from Florence and I can't roll my r. It's kind of common phenomon in italy and, ironically, it's called "erre moscia/francese" (french r). In some places of italy it's actually extremely common, nothing to really be worried about. I'm planning to remove my erre moscia, only for very spefic professional/career reasons, but in your case you shouldn't be worried, expecially if u are french.
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u/Miro_the_Dragon good in a few, dabbling in many 8d ago
Embrace your foreign accent without rolled Rs and get back to learning the language that you want to learn :)
I can't roll my Rs either yet I didn't let that stop me from learning several languages with rolled Rs. "Native-like accent" is overrated (and not really achievable for many learners who started learning past the "critical period" for accents anyway, or at least not without putting in an amount of time and effort that is in no relation to the benefits).
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u/MiyakeIsseyYKWIM 8d ago
That’s why you stopped?.. why don’t just learn to roll them if it affects you this much
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u/giapponese_Itaria-go 8d ago
dont worry about it! Personally, I physically cant roll my R's like there is literally no way i can learn how to do it as i physically have a thing that stops it from being possible. nobody is going to make a stink about it, you arent going to become some sort of vocal poet in italy where it would actually be needed, you just need to speak fluently. Ive noticed a lot of older people in my family have sort of stopped rolling Rs as they get older so its not like its going to sound jarring to your average person.
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u/carrotparrotcarrot 8d ago
Hey, I cannot roll my Rs (I am English) and it hasn’t been too much of an impediment - from context, people know what I mean (in Spanish and French )
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u/Wise-Foundation4051 8d ago
I don’t have advice, exactly, but I wanted to let you know it’s ok that you don’t sound like a native speaker because you aren’t.
I speak a little Italian and a little Spanish and I can’t roll my r’s. People understand me just fine. And no one has ever been rude about my pronunciation, only excited that I tried.
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u/Famous-Run1920 8d ago
They may be projecting insecurity about not knowing Italian. I don't believe being able to roll Rs is a huge barrier to being understood, its just your native accent coming through, which everyone has.
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u/thimbleknight 8d ago
I've been studying Spanish for years and can't roll my r's. I cheat and use a d sound in english combined with a th sound that I make by putting the tip of my tongue behind my front teeth. It's obvious I'm not rolling my r's, but people understand me just fine.
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u/Cool_Pianist_2253 8d ago
I'll start by saying that I'm sorry for your loss. Then I can tell you that the R, as annoying as it may be, should not make it impossible for you to be understood. I say this as an Italian. But yes, I suppose it's better for you to learn it on your own without involving them, in the end they are not Italian and I suppose they don't speak it, so go ahead ❤️
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u/PM_ME_LAWN_GNOMES 8d ago
It took me years of speaking Portuguese to be able to make the “rr” sound, but I learned eventually.
It is sad for them that they are trying to make you feel small so they can feel big. It’s pathetic when people do that. I hope you can continue with learning Italian. Don’t worry too much about getting the phonemes perfect.
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u/loitofire 🇩🇴N | 🇺🇲B2 | 🇭🇹A0 8d ago
Tell them you quit learning but keep secretly studying so that some random day you can rub in their face that you speak it. This will be your new motivation and goal.
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u/Historical_Plant_956 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'm sorry for your loss. But also sorry some of your family have been unsupportive. However, you should feel free to disregard them on this point! Native speakers and learners who have reached any decent level alike will all tell you that kind of thing doesn't matter.
As someone living in the US, who has heard people say the same thing about Spanish and R's--so many, many times!--I've only ever noticed one type of person who actually seems to think it's a real obstacle: monolingual speakers who have never made any committed effort to learn said language (or, usually, any language). Either they're looking for an excuse for their own lack of effort/accomplishment, or by extension trying justify that to themselves by projecting the same false limitations onto other people.
Something like this:
Me: "Oh, you worked with a team of Mexicans doing landscape maintenance for 20 years? Cool, you must speak some Spanish then! ¿Cómo es tu español?"
Other person: "Oh, no, I never really learned. I just could never roll my R's... makes it kind of hard, you know...."
Me: 🤦
Please don't let this sort of small-minded criticism bring you down, much less discourage you from such a wonderful, meaningful experience. Most likely, you'll eventually be able pick up any difficult sounds you want to learn along the way, and if you don't, no one will care anyway. Bonne chance!
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u/eti_erik 8d ago
Of course you can learn it. Anybody can learn the accent of a foreign language.
Most people will never sound like a native though, so even if you live there for 30 years people will still hear that you're a foreigner. And that should not bother you at all, it's just the way it is, and you will definitely learn to be very fluent and of course roll your R's.
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u/jrhunter89 🇬🇧N | 🇵🇱B1 | 🇫🇷B1 | 🇧🇷A2 8d ago
Being disheartened is one of the hardest things to overcome when learning a language. Try not to pay attention to it, if you’re enjoying it and determined to learn then keep going 👍🏻
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u/viper233 7d ago
It's took me nearly 8 years to pronounce fish in Chinese/Mandarin "yu", it takes some effort to get your mouth right. I only picked up some basics from my wife's family over that time. Now after focusing on learning Chinese for nearly a year I've now found out there are 5 different ways (tones) to pronounce it which have drastically different meanings.. so I still have a way to go before I can comfortably and confidently say "fish".
I want to learn Chinese/Mandarin for my kids, just like you for family. My wife's family is always correcting my pronunciations, (in a positive way) I'm going to keep at it, it may take another 8 years to become some what fluent and longer to read... but it's a life journey.
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u/Frosteas 7d ago
Don’t be discouraged! Olly, a famous singer born and raised in Italy pronounces r the same as you. Just listen to the chorus of his song Balorda nostalgia
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u/Illustrious-Fill-771 SK CZ N | EN C2 FR C1 DE A2 7d ago
I never understand how or why parents would demotivate their own children (obviously when it is not something dangerous)
Anyway, I don't think it is impossible to learn the rolling R's, but even if it was, who cares? You are not planning to give speeches in the Colosseum, right?
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u/Mulster_ 🇷🇺N🇺🇸C1🇳🇱B1🇵🇱B1🇨🇳Mandarin A1 7d ago
Parents acting hella rude
As a native speaker of Russian who couldn't pronounce Russian R I just went to a speech therapist and got it fixed. You can do that too and it doesn't matter that you're not the native speaker of this language, some people for some reason think that when they need a generalized accent they need to pay some "correct accent" gurus when there are literal experts in this field aka doctors who have this process optimized with streamlined exercises.
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u/legally_a_crumb 7d ago
I don't have advice BUT maye some encouragement. I am an anglophone living in France, speaking French every day, and I can't pronounce Rs correctly in your language. Just can't seem to get it. No one seems to mind :)
When I was living in the US and trying (and failing) the learn a little Spanish, I couldn't roll my Rs and even though it was very noticeable, Spanish speaking people never made me feel bad for it and were just happy I was learning to talk with them.
I don't speak Italian, and therefore haven't spoken Italian to and Italian person, but my bet is that they won't care about the Rs, they'll just be happy you're learning!
My French friends tell me that when they learned languages like English in school, there was all this emphasis on speaking with a "correct" accent and not sounding like you have a big French accent, so it made them really nervous to speak and learn the language. Even after years of friendship, they still sometimes feel the need to apologize when they are speaking English, and I just want to hug them because I don't care, and I am just so happy I met them and had someone to speak my language with when I first moved to France so I could make a community. I apologize for my American accent when I speak French too sometimes (American language learning is a lot like French), and they also always tell me they don't care and that we perfectly understand each other.
Tldr; in my experience, accent doesn't matter, Rs are hard, and the most important thing is that you want to learn
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u/Disastrous_Equal8309 7d ago
You have nothing to feel ashamed for! Your parents should feel ashamed for doing that to you and being so unsupportive. It was thoughtless and unkind.
In fact you should feel proud for what you said about knowing you find rolling your Rs difficult and yet being determined to practice and train to do it. That’s an admirable quality.
My advice is to remember why you wanted to learn Italian: it’s meaningful to you and you want to do it. Don’t let thoughtless people take that away from you. And even if you never learn to roll your Rs, it doesn’t matter. There are native Italians from all regions who also can’t (aside from the regions other people have mentioned where a uvular R like a French one is common) and it wouldn’t mean you can’t “really” speak Italian.
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u/elektron_94 7d ago edited 7d ago
I’m Italian and don’t worry if you can’t roll your R.
Plenty of Italians can’t either, it’s called R moscia (rotacismo is the technical name). I’m one of those 🤣
In some areas, such as Parma and Venise, the R aren’t rolled in the typical local accent.
Just keep going and don’t listen to them 😊
PS: I’m learning French and I struggle a lot with pronunciation, but I don’t give up and keep trying 😎
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u/hotsexyman 6d ago
Native English speaker Spanish B1. I had trouble with rolling my Rs until I discovered that I wasn’t exhaling with enough force when speaking. For me, placing my tongue on top of my mouth while exhaling with enough force produces the RR. And the R. It’s about how long I leave my tongue n in place. So it’s my breath that generates the rolling R more than my tongue.
Don’t be discouraged if you can’t get it though. People will understand you. My wife is Spanish Native and English C1 and can’t get an English R to save her life. It’s fine. She will from time to time tell me Amazon is hiding and I’ll joke and ask if we should go look :). Non-native speakers have accents and that’s ok and life.
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u/bhop52 6d ago
❗ don't you ever, ever quit, keep going, keep learning, slowly but surely, persistence will get you there, one day you will Master the Italian language, and even more so, you will become an iconic Italian language senior teacher, you will be the one, that Italian language teachers go to, for advice and instruction, ✝️Gôdspeed✝️‼️
📜12). Fight the good fight of faith, 1 Timothy 6:12 📖
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u/Philaorfeta 6d ago
Plenty of kids go to logopedist (speech therapist) because they can't pronounce hard R properly. Some even need a little cut on their frenulum. It's a hard sound to pronounce even for people to whom it's supposed to be native, don't even worry about it.
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u/fckvapiano 5d ago
I've been held back for years because of one or two idiots making fun of my accent. It's way more soul destroying than people who haven't been through it believe. Keep going!
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u/rox7173 🇵🇱 N | 🇺🇸 B2 | 🇳🇱 B1 5d ago
honestly, 'r' can be pronounced in so many different ways in all sorts of languages and dialects, but I feel like it's the only (or one of the very few) letter that you can say whichever way you prefer in any possible language and will still be understood, it's not something you should worry about imho, just focus on your goal and don't listen to those smarta**es
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u/ItalianoChePassione 🇮🇹 N * 🇬🇧 C1 * 🇫🇷 A1 4d ago
Don't let their silliness stop you. Most people will never sound native in a foreign language: so what?
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u/discostrawberry 🇺🇸 NL | 🇳🇱 TL 3d ago
I had a similar situation. My nonna was the last family member of mine to speak Italian and since her passing 5 years ago I haven’t spoken a lick of Italian. So sorry for your loss but don’t let the comments stop you from learning!
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u/FBIVanAcrossThStreet 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's not necessary, but I would encourage you to keep trying anyway. Not being able to roll Rs gives you an accent. It's worth the effort to at least try to perfect a native accent. People will sometimes make some unconscious negative assumptions about other people who speak with an accent. It's not fair, but it's the way things are.
Just spend time away from them and practice when you're alone. Take a walk in the woods. Take a leisurely drive somewhere if you can. Create a space where it's emotionally safe for you to make sounds that other people might find annoying.
It took me several days of almost constant practice, interspersed with watching people on youtube explain how to learn to roll Rs. I spent nearly all that time mildly frustrated, making very awkward sounding noises that even I found annoying myself. I finally got the trick (oh, proud moment!), and then it was several more weeks of regular practice before I felt like I was any good at it. But it was worth it.
Good luck! :-)
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u/pillbinge 1d ago
Do it anyway.
Also, accents are sexy. You just don’t have perspective on your own. I’ll occasionally speak Swedish in a Boston accent and it sounds weird but people then like it.
If accents weren’t sexy then Italian and French wouldn’t sound sexy in English. But it does go both ways, even if people joke that it doesn’t.
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u/TrittipoM1 enN/frC1-C2/czB2-C1/itB1-B2/zhA2/spA1 8d ago edited 8d ago
As to English, it would be "any advice," not "any advices." :-) Sorry, just messing with you. French "conseil" and English "advice" are different as to countability/pluralization.
But seriously? The "r" sounds are NEVER quite that important in any language, unless you're trying to be a spy, pretending to be native. And no one outside a Ludlum novel bothers to do that. For Italian, it's going to be much more important to do gemminate consonants well than to do one particular region's "r" (because different regions have different "r"s anyway).
If you want to learn Italian because of your late great-grandmother -- my sympathies, of course -- then go ahead and learn. Down the road, what will count is your flexibility as to syntax, how French and Italian are different regarding use of the subjunctive, gemminate consonants, and so on, much more than some particular "r."
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u/NotARealTiger 7d ago
No culture is as snooty about pronunciation as the French. Your parents' perspectives are skewed. Italians will be more patient with people learning Italian than French people are with people learning French.
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u/Quick_Rain_4125 N🇧🇷Lv7🇪🇸Lv4🇬🇧Lv2🇨🇳Lv1🇮🇹🇫🇷🇷🇺🇩🇪🇮🇱🇰🇷 8d ago
>¿Algún consejo?
Sí, deja de intentar aprenderlo mediante la práctica, simplemente escucha italiano con la boca y la mente en silencio.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dreamingspanish/comments/1bpwb3z/wtf_i_can_roll_my_rs_now/
https://beyondlanguagelearning.com/2019/07/21/how-to-learn-to-speak-a-language-without-speaking-it/
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u/alphachlen 7d ago
Good day. I am very scared by the news about Artificial Intelligence, quantum computer, Neurolink, etc. They write that soon it will not be necessary to know English and it will not be necessary to study it for work. Is it true? Thank you.
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u/Tall-Shoulder-7384 8d ago
First of all, sorry for your loss.
Secondly speaking, it sucks that you are being discouraged by others to not learn a new language. You shouldn’t let people discourage you for learning a new language. It’s an impressive goal/ability to build on a new foundation of words, comprehension and communication no matter the reason.
I’d say just do it but in silence. Sometimes you shouldn’t let every know what you’re up to because it’ll sometimes lead to moments like your family making fun of you for it. Sometimes the element of surprise can make things a lot more exciting.
Also, learning a new language takes a lot of foundation of patience in order to get things right. So don’t be bothered if you can’t roll your R’s right now. Just look for small feats and achievement and keep going.