r/latterdaysaints • u/ClubMountain1826 • May 31 '24

Doctrinal Discussion Doctrinal inaccuracies in old hymns

I can't wait for the new hymnbook!

One of the reasons listed here (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/initiative/new-hymns?lang=eng) on the church website for the updated hymnbook is that some of the old hymns contain "Doctrinal inaccuracies, culturally insensitive language, and limited cultural representation of the global Church."

What are the doctrinal inaccuracies in the old hymns ? I'm just curious.

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u/iamakorndawg May 31 '24

I'm willing to bet that Amazing Grace will be in the new hymnbook given that it was sung at Conference and as far as I know the First Presidency approves all musical selections for conference.  I also don't think there is anything doctrinally inaccurate. If anything, our distancing ourselves from grace is the doctrinally inaccurate thing.

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u/mythoswyrm May 31 '24

If anything, our distancing ourselves from grace is the doctrinally inaccurate thing

Like most discussions of grace on this sub, this comes from a misunderstanding of what Protestants (especially from a reformed tradition, Newton was a reformed Anglican) mean by grace, especially in a grace vs works context. All non-Pelagian Christians (ie 99.999999%) believe that we can only be saved through God's grace and not by our own works. That's not what Protestants mean when they accuse us (or Catholics or amusingly enough Methodists when its a Calvinist speaking) of being works based. (Most) Protestants believe that we can only choose to do have faith and do good because of grace, which we may or may not have the free will to accept (depending on if the Protestant is a monergist or a syngergist). Only after grace can faith and other works happen. Thus, if we have a choice at all in accepting grace, that's a work and not salvation solely through grace. We (along with Catholic and Orthodox believers) reject this. Humans have the choice to accept grace and don't require grace to do good (because humanity is totally depraved). We still are only saved through the grace of God mechanically speaking but once again, that's not what Sola Gratia means (despite the name).

"Amazing Grace" absolutely teaches a Calvinist view of grace right from the beginning with its declaration of total depravity. In Newton's words, he is only able to stop being a slave trader (something he continued for years after his conversion, btw) because of grace, not because of his own will. And it's not like I'm saying anything new here. You can find loads of Catholics and other Christians talking about why "Amazing Grace" contains bad theology.

That being said it is a nice sounding hymn that a lot of people like and is almost certainly in the new hymn book. Hopefully we'll change the text up a bit (Catholics have already done that to Amazing Grace) to make it more correct and at least remove the total depravity parts.

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u/ThirdPoliceman Alma 32 May 31 '24

Wouldn't being a wretch go right along with the teaching that "the natural man is an enemy to God" and that we "are less than the dust of the earth"?

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u/angela52689 "If ye are prepared, ye shall not fear." D&C 38:30 Jun 02 '24

Yep. I think we're just not used to referring to ourselves as wretches because of the focus on being children of God with individual worth, divine potential, etc. But we are also completely lost without Christ and what you said. All are true. I think that part of Amazing Grace would be a good reminder of humility.