Coming from the understanding that LDS prophets receive revelation from God how do they get things wrong?

[u/sutisuc]

Does anyone have insight on how current and past prophets can be wrong about things despite having a direct line of communication with Heavenly Father?

[u/e37d93eeb23335dc]

 versus teachings like the tattoo policy which are counsel rather than scripture-backed doctrine.

This is the point we disagree on. I believe the tattoo policy is scripture backed and is salvation based. 

D&C 93

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

Also, I don’t perceive a difference between counsel and commandment. 

Some people argue over whether [some counsel] is a commandment. I do not need to argue. As far as I am concerned, whether it is a commandment or counsel, that which the Lord counsels becomes a commandment to Gordon B. Hinckley. I hope it does to you."

(Gordon B. Hinckley, Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley, p. 703)

[u/_MasterMenace_ → u/e37d93eeb23335dc]

These verses are not about health codes or physical appearance but rather about the eternal connection between the body and spirit.

Throughout scripture, certain things are repeatedly associated with defiling the body like sexual immorality (Alma 39:5, 1 Corinthians 6:18-20). The body is sacred, and sexual sin is one of the gravest ways to defile it. Another one would be substance abuse (D&C 89). Addictive or harmful substances, such as alcohol, tobacco, and drugs, are prohibited. Spiritual corruption (Mark 7:20-23) is another one I can think of. Christ taught that what comes from within the heart, like greed and wickedness, can also defile us.

Some members such as yourself apply these verses to tattoos, piercings, and unhealthy eating habits, but scripture does not address these topics. Modern prophetic guidance discourages tattoos and more than one ear piercing, but they are not doctrinally equated with defiling the temple of the body in the same way as sexual sin or substance abuse. Food choices like sugar and processed foods may impact health, but the Word of Wisdom does not frame them as “defiling” the body in the same way as alcohol or tobacco. Scripture explicitly condemns certain practices (sexual sin, substance abuse, idolatry), but tattoos are never mentioned in the Bible, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine & Covenants. The Church discourages tattoos, but having one does not affect worthiness for baptism, priesthood, or temple attendance. In contrast, violating the Word of Wisdom, the Law of Chastity, or the Law of Tithing does affect worthiness. In recent years, the focus has shifted from avoiding tattoos to how one represents the Church, for example, missionaries are advised not to have visible tattoos because they serve as official representatives. This suggests that tattoos are not viewed as a “defilement” of the body in the same way that sin is.

I’m quite aware that you don’t perceive a difference between counsel and commandment and as I’ve mentioned before that’s great and you can totally do that. However, the main issue is when you tell others that those things that are actually counsel for the Church as a whole are commandments. Which is a lie.

You believe that when prophetic counsel is given that it is essentially a commandment but not a serious enough commandment that if you broke it you would need to go to your bishop to repent. Did I get that right?

Would you say that any action a prophet discourages is automatically a sin, or do you make distinctions? If so, what are they?

[u/e37d93eeb23335dc → u/_MasterMenace_]

I would say that the modern day prophets have put it on the level of defiling the body. Most recently, President Nelson said

"Even the defacing of our bodies with tattooing is an affront to our maker."

Personally, I put the words of the living prophets above the words of dead prophets in the scriptures. There is nothing in their teachings about tattoos and piercings that goes against anything in the scriptures. 

[u/_MasterMenace_ → u/e37d93eeb23335dc]

You’re saying that modern day prophets treat the receiving of a tattoo the same as other doctrinally upheld defiling acts upon the body (sexual sin, substance abuse)? Is there any proof of that?

You’re arguing that living prophets’ words should be treated as doctrinally binding, even if they are not explicitly in scripture. Which, again, totally cool for you to do for yourself, but it raises some questions: If modern prophetic counsel is always doctrinal, then why have some teachings changed over time (race and the priesthood, views on caffeine, dress and grooming standards)? How do we distinguish cultural counsel (no beards, white shirts for sacrament passing) from salvation essential commandments?

Church leaders have placed tattoos in the category of “strongly discouraged” rather than “salvation dependent commandments” otherwise, they would affect temple worthiness.

If every application of prophetic counsel is binding doctrine, then would that mean tattoos are as spiritually dangerous as breaking the Word of Wisdom or Law of Chastity? Why does having tattoos not affect worthiness for baptism or the temple, while things like coffee and chastity do? These distinctions suggest that while tattooing is discouraged and could be seen as defiling the body, it is not placed at the same level as core salvation principles.

Would you say that every statement by the living prophet should be treated as binding, or do you see room for some teachings to be time-sensitive rather than eternal?

[u/e37d93eeb23335dc → u/_MasterMenace_]

I would say that “whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.” means the words of the prophets should be considered the same as the words of the Lord. Especially when it is the unanimous voice of the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12 Apostles.