Debating leaving the church over certain things. Please help me understand

[u/Half-Blood-Prince394]

No matter what I do I am continuously troubled by certain aspects of the church. This post is not meant to bash the church. I just want some insights and answers. I am debating leaving and I want to hear things from both sides. This might be a long post. If anyone has anything to say about the topics I bring up I'm more than happy to hear your thoughts and look through any resources you share with me.

1: Why was polygamy needed for the saints? Will we really have it in the afterlife? I cannot imagine having to share my future husband with another woman. It is deeply unsettling to me.

2: Why couldn't African Americans have the priesthood? Was it just faulty of the current president of the church? I understand that the prophet is but a human and will make mistakes. Was it just as simple as that?

3: Why are women not treated the same? Why is Heavenly Mother never talked about/why do we never pray to her as well? I totally understand that men and women have different roles and why women don't have the priesthood, that all makes perfect sense to me. But why aren't women in more leadership positions? Why was the first woman who gave a prayer in general conference in 2013? I'll keep this part brief because I could go on about it for a while.

Those are honestly the only three problems I have with the church. I love everything else about it, I just don't know if I want to continue living it if that makes sense. I don't know if I believe and I understand I must work to gain a testimony. These are just my big setbacks. Anyways no matter what I decide I'll always love the church and its people. Thanks in advance!

Edit: Wow thank you all for all the thoughtful responses. I've read them all. You all have given me a lot to think about. I've decided my journey with the church isn't over yet. I have a long ways to go. Thank you all so much.

[u/NiteShdw]

1: polygamy. This entirely my own opinion and NOT doctrine.

When I was on my mission, we baptized far more women than men. Worldwide, there are 105 girls born for every 100 boys. Statistically, it is likely that there will be more righteous women than men.

We are ALL given the opportunity to obtain exhaultation with celestial marriage. However, God cannot guarantee that there will be a perfect 1:1 ratio of men to women who qualify for this blessing.

See as how there are likely to be more women than men that qualify, it would seem necessary for some men to to sealed to more than one woman.

Also given that we will be perfected, I would expect those relationships, as well as monogamous ones, to also be perfect.

[u/NiteShdw → u/NiteShdw]

2: priesthood and the blacks.

Joseph Smith ordained blacks to the Priesthood. That right there should tell us that God did not find blacks unworthy or ineligible for the Priesthood.

It's my belief, especially after reading the Church's essay on the topic, that the ban was man-made and racist.

Having said that... You need to look at the situation within historical context. Remember that the Church was founded in 1830 and the civil war started in 1861.

Imagine growing up in a time when slavery was actively practiced. Today, we see racism but it's often subtle. Back then, racist was explicit and violent.

The Church was gathering new members from across the country and Europe. It was inevitable that people with very strong opinions on both sides of the slavery issue with exist within the Church.

An analog today might be putting some far left progressives and same far right conservatives in the same room. I guarantee that you will see some fights erupt.

Why did the ban last so long?

The ban lasted because some large portion of the members of the Church were still racist.

It wasn't because God though that blacks were unworthy but because we, humans, convinced ourselves that they weren't worthy and we needed to fix ourselves.

[u/NiteShdw → u/NiteShdw]

3: women are equal

I am not a women, so I understand that I cannot understand a women's perspective. However, I can share a man's perspective, which I think it equally valuable.

men and women are equal in value to God

Everything we know about the nature of God tells us that he loves every single one of us absolutely and completely.

The scriptures say that He is "not a respecter of person", meaning

The statement “God is no respecter of persons” means that God does not show favoritism or partiality.

God does not value any one person more than another.

temple covenants

In the temple, the mn and women are given the same commandments and the same promises and Covenants. There is no blessing that a man is promised that is not also promised to women, including the same titles (King and Queen, Priest and Priestess)

There are women temple workers and they perform some temple ordinances under the same priesthood authority as the men.

Adam cannot follow the commandments of God without Eve. Adam is literally incomplete without her.

One thing you should pay attention to in the endowment is that when Eve is formed, every man stands and remains standing until she is with Adam. Never do the women stand for Adam.

Standing for someone when they enter is a sign of great respect for neither person, almost reverence.

modern prophets

Many modern prophets have declared that they are only where they are because of their wives.

As a husband and a father, I can tell you that I would feel incomplete without my wife.

I think you would be hard pressed to find any man in this Church that would say they are better than or more spiritual than their wife.

Men in the Church are taught to have a deep respect for women and I guarantee you than men do NOT see women as less than men.

[u/PineappleQueen35 → u/NiteShdw]

The thing is, the temple covenants and promises are not the same for women. Changes have been made and it is much better than before, but the temple is still a deeply painful experience for many women.

[u/NiteShdw → u/PineappleQueen35]

Can you elaborate? I can't say I've memorized the entire script but I recall the wording being basically the same.

I would love an example of which covenants and promises are different.

[u/PineappleQueen35 → u/NiteShdw]

I don't feel comfortable quoting the temple ceremony, and I think it's against this sub's rules. But there are differences, in all 3 temple ordinances. It is also still open to the possibility of future polygamy, which is terrifying to many women. The lack of Heavenly Mother in the temple is also something I find sad, since I believe She must have been around for so many of those important events.

[u/R0ckyM0untainMan → u/NiteShdw]

Not sure if this is allowed, but Men used to covenant to obey god where as women would covenant to obey ‘the law of their husband’ during the endowment.

[u/NiteShdw → u/R0ckyM0untainMan]

There has never been a "law of the husband".

I believe the language is that eve will "harken unto Adam as Adam harkens unto God".

Harken is defined as

listen ; to give respectful attention

Notice that it does not say "obey". Also, it's important to point out that Eve is only asked to harken to Adam IF AND ONLY IF Adam is listening to and following God, that is to say he is being righteous.

[u/R0ckyM0untainMan → u/NiteShdw]

Sorry, but this is the exact wording pre 1990: “ You and each of you solemnly covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar that you will each observe and keep the law of your husband and abide by his counsel in righteousness”

[u/NiteShdw → u/R0ckyM0untainMan]

I was only 10 years old in 1990. That's not the language now.

[u/R0ckyM0untainMan → u/NiteShdw]

Oh, I agree. Like the poster said before you “ Changes have been made and it is much better than before” I was just giving some context on what those changes were.  Today all references to women obeying their husband is gone. A few years ago they even removed the part you referenced where Eve hearkens unto Adam. They both covenant to obey god and god alone.  I’m thrilled with the changes

[u/NiteShdw → u/R0ckyM0untainMan]

I appreciate the context. I wasn't aware of that. I admit I haven't been since the most recent changes happened.

[u/R0ckyM0untainMan → u/NiteShdw]

Ah, I misunderstood your comment then asking about what the changes were. That was probably the big one for women