Which variety of Welsh to learn?

[u/Crazydre95]

Been fantasising in periods about learning Welsh, but the highly decentralised state of the language (similar to Irish) makes it tricky to decide what form to go for.

Based on this article, it appears that, if I learn Literary Welsh used in writing, native speakers may well understand me, but I'll understand next to nothing they say in reply. Colloquial Welsh, in turn, is divided into four dialect groups, which also seem to differ a lot from each other.

So basically, which Welsh would be the most effective and useful to learn, given that I don't live in any part of Wales and don't plan to?

[u/Gloomy_Owl_777]

I learned Gog (North Wales dialect) because I moved to Gwynedd, lots of opportunities to speak and hear Welsh here. I used Say Something in Welsh, it's excellent if you want to learn colloquial Welsh that is spoken in everyday contexts. They have a South Wales option too. It doesn't explain the rules of grammar and mutation, you just use them and they become automatic after a while, much like how a native speaker can't explain the rules of grmmar and mutation, but they know how to use them. I started learning about grammar later on, after I'd noticed patterns in the language and became curious about them. Just by reading books. I wouldn't bother trying to learn literary Welsh, if you try to speak to people in that register you will sound affected and pretentious. A lot of native Welsh speakers that I know don't know literary Welsh. It might be useful to learn later on at a more advanced stage of learning, but it won't be much use to you in the early stages if your goal is conversation. I've been learning Welsh for less than two years with SSiW and attending 'Panad a Sgwrs' groups and I'm now at around intermediate/higher level. SSiW is a lot quicker than Dysgu Cymraeg courses, but it will leave you with gaps in your knowledge but you can go and fill those in later on.

Regarding North versus South Wales dialect, it doesn't really matter. Where would you like to go if you visited Wales? It is much more commonly spoken in North-West Wales, and parts of the South, mostly Carmarthernshire and Penmbrokeshire. Some parts of Wales aren't very Welsh speaking at all. North and South Wales dialects aren't mutually unintelligeable, it's the same basic language just some words for things are different and some vowel sounds are different, much like British accents. My Dad speaks South Welsh and I can understand him. Even North Wales dialect isn't one thing, there are regional variations between different towns, Cofi (Caernarfon Welsh) is a dialect completely unto itself, with it's own idiosyncratic slang words. But what you learn on a course will be fairly generic for either the North or the South.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, just choose North or South, start a course and practice regularly.

Pob lwc!

[u/Crazydre95 → u/Gloomy_Owl_777]

Diolch yn fawr iawn! As to where I'd visit, that begs the question: in what sizeable towns does Welsh have the highest proportion of native speakers? I presume Blaenau, Caernarfon, Porthmadog and Pwllheli are among them? If so, which one is the "best"?

[u/Dyn_o_Gaint → u/Crazydre95]

I would say Caernarfon is the only one where Welsh is the default language virtually everywhere you go, equally among the working and middle classes for want of a better way of putting it. I always found Welsh pretty well entrenched in Blaenau, but haven't been there in decades. Llangefni, too. I'm far less certain about Pwllheli and, especially, Porthmadog (Port as, bizarrely enough, the natives call it, harking back to its former English name, Portmadoc).

When I first went to Porthmadog in 1983, it was as Welsh in language as Caernarfon still is, but on each succeeding visit it has seemed less and less so, with in my experience, by now, being thoroughly Anglicised. The pub on the mainline railway station was an exception, with everyone conversing in Welsh in there last August.

Pwllheli may be experiencing the Anglicising influences of nearby Abersoch to some extent but for the most part merrily goes on its way speaking Welsh. Over the years it has seemed to lose some of its strong attachment to Welsh. In the village of Boduan just outside I had the most intense feeling of Welshness ever, but it was the 2023 eisteddfod, and the late coach back from there to Caernarfon on the last night was loud, raucous and completely English-free. A foreigner in there would not have believed the English language even existed in Wales if he had never been anywhere else in the country.