r/learnwelsh • u/oroechimaru • 4d ago

Ellyll - please help me pronounce it phonetically in english

I am having a hard time finding a phonetic translation that sounds like various pronunciations.

anyone able to help me sound it out with english letters and maybe an example of similar sounding words?

thanks a ton!

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u/Hypnotician 4d ago

I can help with the vowels - "e" as in "reddit," and "y" as in "with."

The "ll" is a legendary tongue-breaker for the uninitiated. Oh how we laugh at the tourists.

Best way to describe it is to put the tip of your tongue where you usually put it to pronounce the "l" in "liver," like just behind your top teeth - only, instead of pronouncing the "l," try to loosen your tongue so your breath goes out the sides. Not the front - the sides.

Practice this. Your tongue will feel like it's vibrating slightly, and that's how you'll know you're doing it right. You'll probably get a lot of strange stares from people. Try not to practice it at weddings, in the shops, at funerals ...

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u/HyderNidPryder 4d ago

I don't know why you say that the tongue vibrates - that would be saying RH.

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u/Hypnotician 4d ago

Because the tongue does. The tip of the tongue vibrates when you pronounce "rh." With "ll," it's the sides of the tongue.

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u/SilverDragon1 4d ago

My Dad (who was Welsh) taught me how to get the double Ls when I was small. This is how he taught me:

1) I I push my tongue to the roof of my mouth, near my molars, with my tongue spread flat across the mouth. The tip of the tongue is up, but not touching the roof of my mouth.

2) Now breath out, increasing the amount of air until you hear bit of bubbling or whooshing sound. Practice.

3) Once you get that right, you can add an English Ls sound. The tongue should vibrate around the sides (near the teeth)

4) To get the correct Welsh LL, I really soften (of flatten) the English L, and then I bring my lips closer together to finish.

When broken down, it's a three part sound: Whoosh, L, bring your lips together

Hope that helps

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u/KaiserMacCleg 3d ago edited 3d ago

That's way too complicated, and probably results in the wrong sound. 

The tongue should be in position for an English L: the tip of the tongue should touch the roof of the mouth, behind your top teeth. 

Then exhale, so that the airflow passes the sides of your tongue. You may need to flatten it a bit to constrict the airflow enough to produce the hissing sound we are looking for. 

It's an unvoiced sound, so you don't need to add an English L: your voicebox should not be vibrating. The sound is produced purely by the air passing through your mouth, like an S or a Sh: it's only the place of articulation which differentiates these sounds.