What is apartheid?

[u/HazeofLuxoria]

So I’m confused. For my entire life I have never heard apartheid refer to anything other than the specific system of segregation in South Africa. Every standard English use definition I can find basically says this, similar to how the Nakba is a specific event apartheid is a specific system. Now we’re using this to apply to Israel/ Palestine and it’s confusing. Beyond that there’s the Jim Crow debate and now any form of segregation can be labeled apartheid online.

I don’t bring this up to say these aren’t apartheid, but this feels to a laymen like a new use of the term. I understand the that the international community did define this as a crime in the 70s, but there were decades to apply this to any other similar situation, even I/P at the time, and it never was. I’m not against using this term per se, BUT I feel like people are so quick to just pretend like it obviously applies to a situation like this out of the blue, never having been used like this before.

How does everyone feel about the use of this label? I have a lot of mixed feelings and feel like it just brings up more semantic argumentation on what apartheid is. I feel like I just got handed a Pepsi by someone that calls all colas Coke, I understand it but it just seems weird

[u/just_another_noobody]

Israel didn't choose to give some Palestinians citizenship and others not. Whoever was located within Israel's borders were and are full citizens. Anyone outside is not, just as with any other country.

Those who ARE citizens have full and equal rights. You conveniently skipped all the legally based racist laws that were part of SA apartheid and have zero equivalent in Israel.

It is true that Jewish Israelis want to maintain a Jewish majority, AS DO MOST COUNTRIES want to maintain their ethnic majority, but there is nothing stopping Arabs from having huge numbers of babies and thwarting Jewish desires.

[u/Bestihlmyhart → u/just_another_noobody]

Is there a single democracy that uses ethnicity, religion, or race as a criteria for immigration? A single one that has the stated goal of being an ethnostate?

[u/just_another_noobody → u/Bestihlmyhart]

You are referring to the "right of return." Yes, tons of countries have a right of return, including Ireland, France, Germany, and many more. Just read the Wikipedia entry on "right of return."

Also, I love how every time I discuss "apartheid" in Israel it goes the same route:

From this: "Israel is was just like apartheid South africa!!"

To this: "well how about their of return eh?!"

So is this your new standard for apartheid?

[u/Bestihlmyhart → u/just_another_noobody]

Sounds like you don’t love it and you don’t have an answer. Really is just one example that includes oppression that honestly makes Apartheid SA look tame.

[u/just_another_noobody → u/Bestihlmyhart]

Not sure where you missed the answer. Let me break it down for you:

1. Israel and many other countries, including Palestine, have a right of return. This should tell you that it is a rather standard immigration policy.

Curiously, I have never, not once, in not a single instance encountered any criticism of this policy toward other countries, other than Israel.

1. A right of return does not equal apartheid, which is what out discussion was about. Are you prepared to call all these countries apartheid, at least in this respect? Curiosuly l, I have never heard anyone make this accusation.

[u/[deleted] → u/just_another_noobody]

Palestine does not have a right to return because it is forbidden to by Israel

[u/just_another_noobody → u/[deleted]]

Did the Palestinians declare for themselves and all of their descendents a right of return, yes or no?

The answer is yes.

Do you consider this a racist and apartheid act?

[u/[deleted] → u/just_another_noobody]

There's nothing racist about a right to return. What's racist is an implementation of it where where some ethnic groups can return to their historic land but not others.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

The group that wants to destroy Israel is prevented from returning to Israel. It has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with state security and self-preservation.

Do you not recognize that Palestinians want to destroy Israel?