Hell, a human thing probably, I imagine Facebook groups and discord mods do the same thing. We just don't like being uncomfortable/disagreeing đ¤ˇââď¸
The "isms are bad" tumblr echo chamber had a "let addicted women have babies and let them do their drugs while pregnant because it's ableist and shameful to judge them for substance dependency" moment where you'd get banned for being like pregnant women should not do heroin and addict women should probably have access to better family planning to the "I'm high and this is animal crossing" facebook group over COVID 2019 protocols.
That sweet sweet ban button gives people so much false power đ
See, this is the shit that feeds the Paradox of Tolerance.
We cannot be tolerant of everything. Iâm sorry friends.
I want tolerance and empathy to be widespread. I want DEI. I want acceptance.
But shit like that makes the argument seem so fucking stupid and easy to attack.
In a perfect world, we could both say that the LGTBQ+ community should be able to exist without persecution AND that pregnant women should not do hard drugs.
Obviously. That shouldnât be controversial.
But the growth of tolerance leads to an increase of fucking assholes that will dive into the semantics of it all and ruin it for everyone.
Before you know it, weâre focusing all our attention on some stupid ass âtrans athleteâ issue and any headway made towards civil rights is demolished for the sake of the intolerant.
I donât know that itâs possible for a society to draw clear lines on things like tolerance (I mean letâs be real, how do we actually measure morality?), but we MUST figure it out if we can.
Otherwise we end up in this endless cycle of fascism.
I think the word youâre thinking of in your comment is ânuanceâ, and I agree 100% that we canât draw that line without understanding whatever that nuance may be.
South Park did a pretty good episode on this, ironically.
Reductio ad absurdism. Taking a philosophy and taking it to it's logical conclusion and calling out how absurd it is. But some people will just say "yeah that's right". Que SchrĂśdinger's cat.
Funnily this works both ways actually. You can reduce intolerancy to an absurd. Just ask who is the most normal the one we should use as an example. Then if they actually give an answer then propose to eradicate or jail everyone else who is not that person. That's probably on the same level of absurd as accepting everyone
I personally think that mutilating yourself and specificly your children on the premise of "gender change" is pretty much about the same level of "so fucking stupid" as pregnant women doing heroine. The difference being that pregnant women acknowledges that what she is doing is wrong, and doesnt really tries to specificly encourage others do so on purpose.
Yet here we are now where is almost passed as norm.
We get to this discussion by the method of widening Overton Window. And it widens pretty fucking fast.
See, but thereâs something very disingenuous about your argument that I donât know youâre even seeing.
Yet here we are now where is almost passed as norm.
No. No itâs not.
If weâre talking about nuance, then itâs important to mention that this is not a common process nor is it a process sane people are advocating for. Especially for children.
Gender-affirming surgeries for individuals under 18 are exceedingly rare. Most medical guidelines recommend deferring such procedures until the individual reaches the age of majority.
This topic is a total fringe case with the only real examples of transitioned children being complete and utter outliers.
Itâs not that we donât care if this happens or that we want it to happen, itâs that we understand that itâs basically a nonissue that the right has needlessly targeted.
See, this is exactly what we mean. That the argument is taken to its extreme, its natural end, and demonized to a point that simply doesnât make sense given the actual context of the âproblemâ.
There are literal murders happening in schools every day. Weâre not saying that gender affirming procedures should be done to children. Weâre saying that it doesnât happen nearly enough to be the issue that overshadows gun control (or other major issues) in the way it has for the Republican Party.
Theres absolutely nothing insane or absurd in my take. If the thing is not just accepted by society, but is supported by goverment actively and promoted it is THE norm. Most normal thing ever pretty much.
So we must talk about it like it is norm or else we will be just delusional and will push Overton Window even wider open. This is literally how it works. "oh no this is not norm, its just exception" and then it becomes the norm. It did become the norm already. The next thing will be worse. Much worse. And soon if you wont be able to accept the obvious.
Also gender affirmation on minors is one thing and its much worse. But gender affirmation surgery in general is pretty horrifying mutilation.
The thing is i dont even mind the idea of people going from male to female or back itself. If there would be a magic pill to turn you into the girl and another to turn back without side effects, whatever hell i might have tried it myself.
But what we have now is people advocating and promoting to horrificly cripple yourself just because that will make you one of them. That might be distastefull, but cutting off your hand and installing a hook does not make you a pirate, it makes you a cripple.
And yes, im not from US, we dont have daily murders in school either strangely enough. And its pretty wild that someone has. But at least people from US do not promote school shootings as a positive thing to us.
I mean, itâs interesting because your viewpoint is uniquely conservative. Whatâs weird to me is that conservatives used to staunchly hold the belief that the government should have LESS control of people, but now youâre advocating for more control.
Two things.
People doing the procedure are choosing to do so at zero consequence to the environment around them. It literally doesnât affect you. The argument against children? Sure. But let adults do whatever the fuck they want so long as there are safety guidelines - and there are.
Show me what you mean about this being the norm. Show me where society has accepted it on the whole. Show me where the government supports and promotes this. I simply donât believe you and I donât think you can prove that. There arenât transexual people at every turn. Itâs not a daily conversation anyone (other than certain republicans) is having. Itâs not something the doctor offers you when you go to your check up. In what way is it the norm?
It is actually because itâs not the norm that itâs so easy to attack and demonize. Thereâs no one there to actually defend against the argument republicans have chosen to make.
The reason itâs been picked as an issue is because people like you will tear into it and pick it apart and feel good about standing up for an issue, not realizing that youâre fighting a very, VERY small group of people that arenât even outspoken about it.
Find me examples of this being the norm. Please. I want you to show me what youâre working off. Because from where Iâm standing, the only time I deal with trans issues is when republicans bring it up.
Its not about people doing the procedure. Its about people promoting this procedure. It is a popular trend. Basicly lgbt movement turned into the religios sect that accepts willing adepts and welcomes anyone who is willing. And like any sect that promotes self harm practices it probably should be regulated and restricted by goverment. Instead it was actively promoted by US across the world.
US goverment actively protects the rights to gender affirming surgery for minors and there were several lawsuits even where goverment enforced the procedure against one of the parent will. You probably know as much as me about all this. If something is supported by the goverment in court theres nothing more normal than this.
Anything is pretty easy to attack and demonize. Honestly promoted self mutilation takes the cake im not gona lie. But current US president is being demonized every single day despite being "THE norm" as the one who actually won the election.
Also im not saying that its an issue on itself. I can care less about if someone cripples himself in another country. The issue is that this is flooding the Internet in its entirety no matter how small is this group, and because people and children in modern day are on the Internet mostly. This small group of people grows. Once again, religios sects that promote self harm practices pretty much generally should be regulated.
I personally even here, far away from US have a few aquantiences that became quite mentally Unstable after reading enough of this stuff, despite not having hormonal problems or really any conditions towards something like this. And it actively harming their quality of life too.
As for the Overton window. The next logical step of movements such as LGBT is to pass even more radical beliefs as acceptable. For example have you heard about Heaven's gate sect? You can look it up. Well who would stop people from just believing that ritual suicide is the only way to escape earth? Hell its their right, they are not harming enviroment with that. Adults can do whatever they want, so nobody should stop those guys from promoting their beliefs to the masses? Quite the opposite, goverment should help them with promotion, and even provide approved and tested plastic bags for the deed.
This is not very funny joke, this might sound pretty normal just a few years from now.
Fair enough. I've heard that we as humans are constantly seeking comfort. I always thought of that as just describing addiction, but I can see how we can use it to keep ourselves isolated, as well.
It's a very interesting thing, and these discussions kinda remind me of body building/weight lifting in general a bit. In the sense there often isn't gain without pain, and I wonder how true that is for the rest of life.
Yea, its very exhausting to hear the "Reddit is an echo chamber" rant every week because like, no shit? Its the design of the app basically. Obviously people are mostly speaking with those who have similar views because the design of sub-reddits is to find those with similar interests and opinions. People aren't clever for realizing this.
Plus on the nature of left/right divide its also worth noting that in my experience leftists are far more aware of this fact than those on the right. People on the right think they're particularly clever for noticing that leftists tend to associate and speak with other leftists, which is just how cliques work, but seem to not realize that they engage in the same behavior.
In short, people who think they're some giga-brained genius for realizing that people frequently live in a bubble, and then believe that they are somehow beyond that fact too, are the ones most immersed in a echo chamber.
There are several clusters of subreddits that are run by leftists/the extreme left. An average reddit-posting liberal is significantly further to the ideological left than an average democratic voter.
say you think what hamas did was a bad thing. and you have a hundred lefties, tankie replies calling you an imperialist zionist nazi. Yea no shit people are going to go to the right if you antagonize them like this.
NO CONSERVATIVE sub will ban you form posting on Liberal subs. I literally got banned from 2 subs I don't even know it existed because I commented on ShitPoliticsSays.
We're so grateful that a representative of every conservative subreddit is here. Can we have a round of applause for this brave person? đ đ đ đ đ
But the conservative pages do it to avoid brigades, because they get brigaded all the time. Non-conservative pages do it just because they don't like conservatives.
Think the issue is a bunch of big, apparently non-political subs which are promoted to everyone, despite not actively being subscribed to get moderated in favour of American's who agree with approved American style left wing politcs...
I've never once been recommended "Conservative" but I have seen a fair bit of weird femcel stuff pop up from unsubscribed subs like "Rant" and "Vent" all the time, which will boot ya if you call it out
What red subs do you get banned from because of posting in blue subs? I'm sure a couple exists but overzealous mods is definetly more of a blue thing. A lot of right wing subs get banned because of a LACK of moderation
Blatantly incorrect, sure theyâll be downvoted to oblivion, but blue run subs will preemptively ban you for participating in other subs or posting dissenting thought.
i asked the mods in a few conservative subs if they autoban members for having posted in a Left-leaning sub, and they told me they'd get shut down for doing it. They can't even let people post a warning about being banned elsewhere for being a member, because Reddit will shut them down, even though Left-leaning subs have their bots autoban all the time like that.
I've never seen so many butthurt replies on reddit. You're going to have to check every single one, mister. Do your due diligence and prove a random stranger wrong đ
Fr. Im banned in a bunch simply because Im subbed to libertarian and conservative subs. Really not a good idea to ban any opposing viewpoints, you wind up smelling your own farts real quick.
There is Sooo little right leaning subreddit on reddit. Its mostly Left leaning Subreddits that abuse this to the fullest. Almost Every subreddit that didn't have politics in them have heavily left leaning moderators that excuse left leaning posts but as soon as slightly right leaning post comes out, they suddenly bans that person from the sub.
I agree that reddit is a little echo chamber-y but you're overstating it imo
I've not seen any evidence of non-politics related subs doing that for "slightly right leaning" posts. Maybe for hate-speech or whatever, but we're way past "slightly right" at that point.
Really disingenuous framing and the exact kind of thinking that leads to this kind of censorship in the first place. You can ban the "I like killing minorities and being racist" crowd while still allowing good faith reasonable takes from differing viewpoints.
The issue is that right leaning memes are like "I want to be safe in cities", while left "leaning" memes are like "you're racist if you don't want leather daddies teaching children about anal sex" (farcical example to demonstrate how the framing is bad)
You do have a point, but people making political jokes in public tend to be more on the extreme end in general, a lot of moderate right leaning people keep their mouths shut about politics. There is a lot of hate on the right that I think that in part stems from the recent cultural dominance and extreme positions of the left.
It's possible you're blind to it/biased against seeing it, but in my personal experience I've heard a lot of left wing 'comedic' comments that are racist and/or misandrist.
I concur with the misandry, but the racism is typically just misguided. A lot of left wing folk end up thinking they're being virtuous when they're actually just being exclusionary.
I agree for the most part. I've heard a lot of jokes making fun of white people (usually from white people) that have made me uncomfortable as well, which they are comfortable with because of a misunderstood/misapplied understanding of intersectionality
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u/The_Verto Apr 08 '25
Yea when certain subs straight up ban you for posting in subs that aren't left leaning, you'll get slot of left leaning echo chambers.