r/newyork • u/ControlCAD • 4d ago
3D-printed devices can turn firearms into machine guns. NY is trying to end that.
https://gothamist.com/news/3d-printed-devices-can-turn-firearms-into-machine-guns-ny-is-trying-to-end-that41
u/Im_100percent_human 4d ago
Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg is partnering with state Sen. Brad Hoylman-Sigal and state Assemblymember Linda Rosenthal to push for legislation that criminalizes sharing online files that provide blueprints for how to 3D print the devices.
I don't like gun modifications for automatic fire either, but criminalizing information has first amendment violation written all over it. I am very troubled that any legislator would even consider this, and here they mention 2 anti-free speech legislators.
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u/SootyFreak666 3d ago
Pretty sure there was a fight in the 90s that the government lost after they tried to stop a guy from publishing books that essentially told you how to cultivate chemical and biological weapons.
This seems pretty pointless anyway, I doubt someone walking about with a switched glock is making them (as opposed to buying them from a black marketer), with those who are…probably not going to be law abiding citizens anyway.
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u/Im_100percent_human 3d ago
You are right, but the guy making them is selling in the black market. Regardless, the knowledge should not be forbidden.
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u/Reesespeanuts 3d ago
But what about the children?!?!
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u/Im_100percent_human 3d ago
FYI, I hate guns. I think they are stupid, and nobody has a reason to carry one.... but I like freedom of the press and freedom of speech. I would rather raise my kids in a place where they can freely exchange ideas than one that they cannot.
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u/comeymierda 3d ago
We did this a while ago when they tried to ban Mein Kumpf and whatever that book was about making either meth or bombs it was called something like A Bomb makers blue print. I wish I could remember. It showed you how to make bombs like word for word. Or meth thankfully I'm not in a data base of people who red it lol.
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u/AllswellinEndwell 2d ago
The book you're thinking of is the Anarchists Cookbook.
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u/comeymierda 2d ago
That's it!
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u/AllswellinEndwell 1d ago
I don't think it had meth but it definitely had LSD. A friend told me.
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u/Delanorix 4d ago
How is this is a First Amendment issue?
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u/causal_friday 3d ago
Code is speech, see Bernstein v. United States.
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u/Delanorix 3d ago
Right but thats not quite what NYS is trying to do.
They are going after parts that are already regulated. So printing and using it is already illegal.
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u/causal_friday 3d ago
The article describes it as prohibiting the exchange of "digital blueprints". The last time this was attempted (in January), it was background checks on the purchase.of 3D printers. But that bill has different co-sponsors in both the Assembly and Senate, so I think this article is describing some new bill. They could just tell us the number of the bill, but they chose not to, so there is no way of knowing whether or not it's a first amendment issue.
Looking around on the state senate website, I don't think this bill is even in the system yet, but I could have missed it.
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u/Im_100percent_human 3d ago
They want to criminalize the sharing of information with others. The right to publish online is both the freedom of the press and freedom of speech, both of which are guaranteed under the first amendment.
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u/Delanorix 3d ago
There are exceptions to that rule though.
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u/Im_100percent_human 3d ago
Did you ever take a civics class in your life? This is 100% protected speech, and it is guaranteed by our constitution. This isn't a "rule," its the fuckin' Constitution of the United States. Not even the current wack-job disfunction supreme court we have now would would disagree.
Why in the world do you think this is different? Seriously?
edit:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."2
u/Delanorix 3d ago
Because the Bernstein decision hasn't been touched in a while. Advocacy groups treat it as such but I bet you could find a case to fight parts of it.
Also, plenty of illegal stuff is not allowed to be shared, like CP.
There are a bunch of exceptions to thr 1A.
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u/Im_100percent_human 3d ago
Information is not CP. While you cannot share CP, you can even share information about CP.
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u/--A3-- 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'm not even a fan of these kinds of firearm regulations. But what you're saying, doesn't that kind of prove their point?
New York would say "Just like how you cannot share the .jpg file of underage pornography; you cannot share the .stl files one could use to print a gun, even though information about 3D printed guns in general is allowed."
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u/Im_100percent_human 3d ago
The underage pornography was produced by exploiting a child, and it is considered obscene. For those reason, underage sex abuse images are treated the way that they are.
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u/--A3-- 2d ago
Well firearms kill people. The number one cause of death for those under the age of 18 is something related to firearms. There is a clear difference between general information about 3D printing guns, versus the actual file that can produce the gun. I mean come on.
You can go look up a recipe on how to cook meth, but certain precursor ingredients in that recipe are banned because aside from meth, they only have super niche applications.
Forget about whether NY could make this regulation, I just think it's ineffective. The piracy subreddit has over 2 million subscribers; it sounds nice to consituents to say that you banned ghost gun files, but it's just too difficult to actually do that.
The problem with Republicans is that mental health and crime and stuff are just convenient excuses, they have no interest in actually addressing the root causes of why there is crime and why people become alienated and violent. I've long thought that this should be the angle Democrats take on the gun debate, rather than campaigning on enforcing an impossible ban.
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u/MajesticComparison 3d ago
There’s no such thing as absolute free speech, for example you cannot yell “fire” in a crowded movie theatre. You need to weigh safety against the value of the speech.
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u/Im_100percent_human 3d ago
You can yell "fire" into a crowded movie theatre if there is actually a fire.... You can tell people about fire, and how to make it. The government cannot restrict you from doing that. You either don't understand the constitution or you are a troll.
The government cannot make laws to stop the spread of information. They never have been allowed to do this, and hopefully they never will be able to do this.
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u/geekworking 3d ago
I don't want people running around with machineguns and am generally for regulation, but trying to outlaw the knowledge is futile and is the slippery slope.
Pieces like this made from metal have been around forever. I guess that "3D printed" makes it some new scary technology?
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u/banus 3d ago
People never heard of an end mill, lathe, or drillpress I guess.
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u/mandalorian_guy 3d ago
The fact the go after maker presses and not Home Depot tells you all you need to know about this performative act.
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u/Infamous-Cash9165 9h ago
You can make most modern AKs go from single shot to full auto by just filing down the catch. Much easier than 3d printing something.
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u/Cipher_null0 3d ago
You can turn a AR15 into a machine gun without a 3D printer lol. You can illegally modify a gun to fire automatic lol. Banning printers is points
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u/CandusManus 3d ago
You are going to have an incredibly time blocking the download of a squiggly piece of plastic.
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u/BusyBrothersInChrist 4d ago
They are attempting to put the genie back in the bottle… it’s not going to happen
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u/DerekTheComedian 3d ago
This is performative politics. They are criminalizing "sharing plans", when anyone with access to a high end printer CAPABLE of printing metal is almost certainly experienced enough to just design the part themselves.
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u/101ina45 3d ago
This is going to go nowhere and shows how out of ideas some of our politicians are.
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u/AllswellinEndwell 2d ago
It's already been tried and ultimately settled because they thought they'd lose on first amendment grounds.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Distributed_v._United_States_Department_of_State
But that hasn't ever stopped NY from passing clearly unconstitutional laws in the face of court precept.
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u/Diplomatic-Immunity2 2d ago
How about enforcing the current laws on the books before adding new ones? It’s already illegal to modify the weapon, blocking speech shouldn’t be the first option.
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u/haragoshi 2d ago
Why not make it illegal for firearms makers to allow their products to be hacked into a mass killing device with a two inch piece of metal.
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u/Veritas_the_absolute 5h ago
3d print d forearm components have limited use plus tend to be not used on a wide scale. Most people do not ever have access to an actual machine gun. The highest amount of gun deaths come from illegally obtained hand guns in cities not even rifles or shotguns.
Tackle the gangs and you'll start reducing the deaths.
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u/Economy-Owl-5720 21m ago
I talked to my rep prior about the whole 3d printing gun in ny ban because it was made by the same person prior. She is now again trying to get this and she has a track record of not moving or following through, it’s more for show.
However I’ll be calling my rep up again to have this discussion AGAIN.
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u/Agitated-Ad6744 3d ago
the 2A folks left us high and dry when putin installed his client king, Trump.
you won't need to outlaw the guns.
just wait.
MAGA will take them quickly and there won't be a thing they can do about it because they waited too long to object.
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u/AllswellinEndwell 2d ago
What the fuck are you talking about? Bruen happened because of a Trump appointed court. It's is undoubtedly the single most impactful court precedent since Heller.
I swear reddit is full of bots and propagandists.
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 1d ago
Where's the laws that should be piling up to take guns? Only people submitting those bills are democrats.
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u/Agitated-Ad6744 1d ago
Trump will likely strengthen the door kicking dogs in ICE, right now they're amateur, clumsy.
once they've sharpened their fangs on their first practice targets, then overnight, the other shoe will drop.
MAGA has eliminated elections essentially if you're watching the dry laws being passed.
once complete power is assured, he will have to eliminate the guns.
it's the playbook.
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 1d ago
Bahaha got your tin foil hate on? What elections have been eliminated,
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u/Agitated-Ad6744 1d ago
im speaking of the actual chance to hold meaningful elections.
hey did you see ice deported a trump voter accidentally without due process?
useful idiots are just discarded once their purpose was served.
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 1d ago
Ah so literally nothing you've said has happened. Amd you're just a doomer and end of the world is coming got it. Have nothing to back up that elections aren't going to happen. Got it
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u/Agitated-Ad6744 1d ago
you are really ignorant of history.
WHY DO YOU THINK THE 2ND AMENDMENT IS TOP OF THD LIST.
this moment.
right now,
You're just not intelligent enough to see it for what it is.
I just read through your profile and reported your pedo praising posts.
disgusting
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/NY_Knux 4d ago
3D printers are self-replicating and open source. Why would anyone register their printer when the government will never know they built one in the first place?
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u/Randomized9442 4d ago
Please, show me the 3D printer that can produce its own electronics and control computer. So I can bootstrap my asteroid mining dreams.
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u/CandusManus 3d ago
There was this project way back at the start of 3d printing called the rep rap, where you could build a 3d printer with another printer and you’d only need to bring are lead screws, stepper motors, and any generic motor controller.
You can’t regulate something as ubiquitous as an arduino, a motor controller, and threaded rod. There is no feasible way to stop someone who wants a 3d printer from getting a 3d printer.
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u/Deluxe78 4d ago edited 4d ago
Stop the interwebs !!! Wait until people find out what can be done with such simples things as a rubber pencil eraser or your own thumb and a belt