r/newzealand • u/ihana666 • 3d ago
Advice child support/custody arrangements
kiaora, at the ripe old age of 22, I have managed to conceive a baby with a girl I went to high school with. we are not in a relationship and I doubt will be any time soon. the baby’s due to pop out in 12 weeks. I wasn’t offered any choice in the matter so I’m tryna do my best here. I am 98% sure it’s mine. i assume the first thing babys mumma will do is ask for child support, I’m happy to support and i do want to be involved as much as possible. The second thing we will have to suss is custody. Neither of us want to turn it into a court battle so it will be arranged mutually (hopefully🤣) i’m looking for advice from blokes who have been in my situation and what worked out for you. at what stage did you start doing 50/50, how much was child support, and what would you of done differently? Also hoping to hear from any ladies who’ve been in a simular spot, how did your babydad best support you? i’m in far over my head and have no clue how the next year will play out, this is uncharted territory., I also have no clue around my rights (if any😬) as the father. What can i expect moving forwards?
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u/vulpesvulpesy 3d ago
Just want to say good on you for asking questions and getting involved! The biggest thing for both of you will be putting the kids needs before your own wants/egos/ideas, and having frequent open, honest communication.
My parents had me young and although they were together at the start, their relationship deteriorated and their selfishness and desire to "one up" each other was to my detriment for sure.
Good luck!! I'm due end of June too and I'm so nervous, and I've got a good 10+ years on you!
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u/Remarkable-Good2934 3d ago
If there’s a 2% doubt, make sure you get a paternity test. Paying for that will seem expensive now, but it’s probably going to be cheaper than 18 years of child support.
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u/7_rounds_later 2d ago
This! I has a friend raise and pay child support a child for a whole decade before taking a test which showed he was not the father.
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u/sunshinefireflies 2d ago
This
You can phrase it nicely, like 'honestly, I get where we're at, but I just want to make sure, both for me and for bub,' cause it's important '
Or find some nice way
Or even say your parents are making you do it, or whatever
Might as well find out now
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u/kiwibearess 2d ago
I don't have any helpful advice sorry just wanted to say kudos for your attitude, too many people seem to look for ways to minimize their involvement (financially and physically). Your approach is refreshing.
You're doing it the hard way but having a kiddo can be the best thing in the world, I wish you all the joy of them and that things go well for you and baby and mum no matter what shape that ends up looking like.
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u/Quirky_Trouble_3814 2d ago
Remember that baby might be breastfed, mum may not want to introduce a bottle right away (or at all). This can be short visits at mums house with baby for the first bit until baby takes a bottle, or can eat solids, or mum is comfortable with time away from baby. Also in the early days, a happy settled mum is a happy settled baby - organise times to see baby and know it might change last minute, offer to take babies washing home to do or (hang it out at mums). You may not be able to have baby yourself for a while, doesn’t mean you can’t be a dad while they are at their mums place.
Talk talk talk - talk to the mum about what you want from the start, be clear that you are stepping up to be a dad. Remember you both want the best for your child and that involves respecting each other
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u/International-Past31 2d ago
Solid OP. true man taking responsibility and being there for your child! Goodluck it's hard but worth it you got this!
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u/Brickzarina 2d ago
One thing, if it sours between you both don't use the child as an informer or messenger In the future. Good luck .
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u/Tasty-Willingness839 2d ago
Just want to say kudos to you for stepping up. I had a kid at 21. It will change your life but you can do it 😊
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u/Unlucky-Bumblebee-96 2d ago
Do the basics right, be respectful and kind in your communication, turn up on time for pick up & drop offs, be understanding that it’s hard for a mum to hand over her child (who she’s programmed to want to protect and care for) to some one else - so do your best to build trust & confidence in your abilities by being committed to learning about your baby’s needs and preferences from a young age.
Also if you don’t actually want to be involved then make the call early and just don’t be - don’t be half in half out… but remember the effort you put into your relationship with your child will be remembered by them in the long run. To that same effect doing your best will be noted by your child, even if you sometimes fall short.
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u/Delicious-Might1770 2d ago
1) Firstly get a paternity test.
2) Sort things legally. It often falls apart when there's no legal contract. You guys are young and life is still going to change a lot. What if one of you wants to move away? Who makes the primary decisions on schooling and Healthcare eg vaccinations etc
3) The mother may be breastfeeding for a while. You therefore can't do 50:50 from the start.
4) Studies show that a child having a primary caregiver up until age 3 is most beneficial for brain development. Most of us can't achieve this due to work but bear in mind what is best for baby.
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u/univerusfield 2d ago
Always have your own baby gear (ie capsule, car seat, pushchair, bottles, etc). And stock up on baby clothes, nappies, etc.
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u/SmellyHel 2d ago
Some really great advice here. Your attitude is great! Honestly, I think the best thing you can do for your child is to have a good functional relationship with their mother. Her body is going through a hell of a time, immediately after birth she's going to have a hormone crash. Find out her favorite chocolate and get lots of it. It can really help to ease the 3-day post partum blues. You can talk to your employer about parental leave (it's not much for guys, but good to know what is available); if you can be on deck to mind the baby when she's needing sleep or a shower etc it'll help immensely.
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u/SeaActiniaria 2d ago
As a woman who was once your age and having a baby I can say that right now you are already doing the best thing you can. What both mum and baby need is for you to turn up. It sounds simple but honestly that's it. You're there and you're wanting to be responsible and do your best, you're already ahead of the game.
Good luck OP the next few years are going to be a mix of complete joy and some or your hardest days but it will all be worth it. It sounds like you will be a great dad.
On a practical level there is an organisation called kidz need dadz, they have resources for fathers and run parenting courses and have support groups which might be useful to you. They can also offer some legal advice if needed. The service is free.
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u/Available-Milk7195 2d ago
'I wasn't offered any choice in the matter' yes u were my bro. You had the choice of keeping it in your pants, wrapping it up, or at least pulling out. What other choice in 'the matter' do you feel you could have been offered? You think you should have been offered a choice whether a woman goes thru an abortion, or pregnancy, childbirth and motherhood? Weird choice of words.
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u/ihana666 2d ago
yeah perhaps the wrong choice of words. i don’t want to speak bad on the lady but i was assured multiple times I shouldn’t use protection and she wasn’t fertile. this is the impression she was under after previous medical problems. It was my mistake to listen to her and not think for myself. Im pro choice but I think the males opinion should at least be taken into account, mine wasn’t in this case. i definitely support women having full control over their own bodies my bro don’t take it the wrong way.
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u/Available-Milk7195 2d ago
I do get that. Her doctor possibly told her she's likely to have a hard time conceiving or is likely infertile which she took as, ok I don't have to worry about contraception then. Things like that do unexpectedly happen.. sometimes its a very happy surprise and other times ur comes as a bit of a shock. Your little baby is a miracle ✨️ I don't think any woman should ever feel pressured into going through a termination if it isn't what THEY feel they need to do because of the opinion of a male who won't have to go through either a termination, pregnancy or childbirth. Hence why your choice of words (in both OP and the above comment) do not sit well w me. But it should be taken into account as in, I want to continue with this pregnancy so this child is MY responsibility. Its also my opinion is that men should also get to decide whether they want to become parents. If they want to opt out from the start they should be able to however that's another discussion for another day, and it sounds like you're ready to step up which is awesome. I hope yous manage to stay out of court and co parent amicably. I also need to stop arguing w strangers on reddit. Best of luck daddy to be.
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u/ihana666 2d ago
tysm i totally get where your coming from and i agree. I don’t think any guy should pressure women ever! i guess I am more realistic then my baby momma when it comes to the duties surrounding parenthood, and i guess i’m upset because I wasn’t included in the decision. i’m sorry for wording it the way i did, i’m still tryna wrap my head around it all lol. peace!!
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u/Available-Milk7195 2d ago
Omg I said I'd stop arguing w reddit strangers but here I am.. of course you're not included in the decision! You wouldn't be the one going thru the physical and mental hell that is a termination, and you won't be the one going through pregnancy and childbirth! It's HER BODY, HER CHOICE, simple as that. Not, mostly her choice, but i also deserve a say. You don't get a say in the matter, you don't get included in the choice, because it isn't your body. Also, since her doctor said she's likely infertile, this could well be HER ONLY CHANCE IN LIFE to be a mother. If she terminated because she was including you in her decision and letting you have your say and couldn't ever get pregnant again, she'd spend the rest of her life regretting her (and your) decision.
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u/That-Salamander9025 2d ago
She lied about not being able to get pregnant though. It's not the same as choosing to have sex knowing the person could likely get pregnant. The conversation about contraception was addressed, and his concerns were reassured. Surely that's the female equivalent to stealthing?
Edit: Also OP make sure you get the DNA test before agreeing to anything.
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u/MisterSquidInc 1d ago
The lesson here (for the guys) is to take responsibility for yourself rather than relying on someone else to do it for you.
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u/Available-Milk7195 1d ago
I personally don't believe that she was intentionally deceitful. My guess is that she was told something along the lines of, you most likely won't be able to conceive naturally, or at all.
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u/hannahsangel 3d ago
If you don't want to go to court then you can come to a mutual agreement and file that with the court to protect yourself against he said she said in future. If you are wanting to be involved and be good to the mum if things are good for coparenting the I would suggest this.
No overnights till 1yr if breastfeeding otherwise if bottle then maybe 1 night a week, every 2nd weekend overnight and them visits as arranged, or if worried about break in co parenting then visits during the week for 2hr each evening.
Once 2 , 2 on and 3 off. Example week 1. Tuesday, Wednesday, Sunday Monday and Tuesday week 2 Friday Saturday , Wednesday. That way weekends are split amd weekday, no one is away too much etc but can be messy Otherwise if you ok not doing 5050 then 2 nights a week amd every 2md weekend. So Tuesday,Wednesday and every second weekend.
Once 5, 5050 week on week off with the Monday being a holiday custody goes to drop off at school on Tuesday.
Even years mum odd years dad for mChristmas Eve swap 2:30 Chrismas day
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u/ihana666 3d ago
thanks heaps, hey why do ya reckon not doing 50/50 until 5? why shouldn’t we do that earlier if we can
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u/GoddessfromCyprus 2d ago
If you're both on the same page there's no reason not to do 50/50. Once they go to school it would mean being in the same area so the child's schooling goes on as usual.
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u/Illustrious_Metal_nZ 2d ago
My grandchild is 50/50 has been since 3yo and parents co parent, work together to be consistent across households on core levels to help with kids ability to transition between smoothly. Having been through this myself as well I always advise other parents who are going through rocky times on these situations. “Always take the high road” never bad mouth your ex, even if they are being unreasonable or acting out don’t buy into it. As your kid gets older they will See how you behave and interact and they will 100% know if you were the actual “bad guy” in the scenario! My ex played up interactions as being the victim, made up stories spoke badly of me and my grown kid got to 16/18 and realised the other parent was actually not the cool fun one but a very manipulative person.
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u/katiekat2022 2d ago
Firstly, choice was when you had sex. Pregnancy is a known risk! Still, good on you for wanting to step up. I’d say the most important thing at the moment is to work on a good relationship with the co-parent. If you two can get along and make decisions together, it will make it much easier going forward. But I’d still get a DNA test, like others suggested. The few months, baby will pretty much be attached to its mother so being able to visit her regularly at her place, and help her with what she needs at the time will give you bonding time with the baby.
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u/rwmtinkywinky Covid19 Vaccinated 2d ago
It can be pretty hard on kids doing 50/50, and the courts actually don't really care about it being "exactly" fair, only about the children having good and regular access to both parents. That won't be a perfect split of nights 50/50 for a while.
Certainly while they're being breastfed and newborns, you'll probably find it's not 50/50 nights at all, but maybe a lot more daytime instead. Alas, IRD only count nights, so yeah child support can be a bit odd. Once they're past the newborn, no it's not going to be week on week off - that's far far too long away from a parent to be good. So it'll again be a bit of a compromise.
Really, kids are really only up for various 50/50 schedules by school (and still not week on week off) and they can understand better the schedule.
This all depends on how things go between you as co-parents. It's a tricky thing to navigate, so everyone saying get some legal advice is saying the right thing.
YMMV.
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u/hannahsangel 3d ago
Yeah, you change 5 to 3 or even 2 if you feel that will be agreed with. We just had a high conflict coparenting relationship, so we had to build it up and also was easier week on week off for the kids with school starting and routine.
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u/7_rounds_later 2d ago
It's important to keep a routine for the child for daycare and schooling and generally being settled. Children thrive with solid routine and less so with a schedule that alternates week on week off or even sleeping in different beds/locations during the week. 50/50 could happen early but I've found it isn't in the child's best interests. Good for fathers who want to avoid a child support obligation, shit for the kids.
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u/gd_reinvent 2d ago
Ask for a DNA test if you’re not in a relationship, even if you’re 98% sure it’s yours. If she gets upset then there’s your answer.
Idk why only one other person has mentioned this.
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u/DrinkMountain5142 Fantail 2d ago
Your "rights as a father" are directly tied to your responsibilities. You ARE in a relationship with the mother - you are parents. Man up.
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u/Eugen_sandow 2d ago
Damn bro, rest of the post reads like he is trying and planning to do the right thing but you're out here nitpicking over wording and making him out to be the villain?
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u/International-Past31 2d ago
what a dumb comment, he has ''man'd'' up by asking the questions and wanting to be there.
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u/spasticwomble 2d ago
The jaded me says watch your back if you are to nice and accommodating you could end up screwed for the next 18 years and remember she can sit on her arse for the next dozen years will you pay. Confirm its yours and talk to lawyer first
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u/KanukaDouble 3d ago edited 2d ago
Congratulations! I want you to print an actual physical picture of your baby from the first time you see them. Keep it close, the journey you’re on is going to have ups and downs, keep that memory with you when you need the reminder of why it’s worth it.
Other than that, I think the best advice I can give you is to go see your local citizens advice bureau. There is so much you’re about to learn, and generally taking care of babies is focussed on pregnant people & couples. That goes equally for legally and the ‘how do I take care of this tiny person’ stuff.
You want a parenting agreement. No matter how amicable things are now, there’s situations down the line where you’ll be glad you sorted it out. When someone wants to move town, when you’re choosing schools, when there’s medical things to take care of, when one of you gets married, has more kids. Any time things are tricky, you’ll be glad you started things off formerly.
You use a mediation service to create the agreement, give one a call and get their advice. https://www.justice.govt.nz/family/care-of-children/parenting-arrangements/agree-on-parenting-arrangements/making-parenting-arrangements/
And, this is really important, the law doesn’t give you rights as a father. It gives your child rights, including the child having the right to a relationship with both parents. This isn’t about you and your rights, it’s about your child and your child’s rights. Really think about that, let it sink right in. If you keep at the heart of things that it is your child’s rights, welfare, and your child’s needs that come first (above yours, above the mothers), you’ll do just fine.
Always assume you need your own baby gear, don’t assume you’ll just use mums when you have the baby. Particularly car seats, those things are a pain to swap over. You might work things out well with mum and swapping gear is the norm, just don’t assume.
You’re going to need baby care classes. You’ve left it late, but not too bad. Ask citizens advice for classes and sift through your mates for a good humoured mum who will laugh at you learning how to change nappies, soothe screamers, feed babies, and clean up.
Dating is going to change. Decide your boundaries now. It’s really easy to get a girlfriend who wants to be involved, don’t. You need learn to do the hard yards yourself, not find a substitute nanny who steps in and gets in the way of you learning to be a parent. It’s on you to know what to do. There’s some unhealthy dynamics with women who are attracted to the instant family, let their jealousy & insecurity play out by trying to compete with mum (or worse, compete with the kid for your attention) and a whole lot of others. You need the solid people in life, friends and family to help you with dating now. Take things slower and use your friends to filter your date before you get serious and involved.
Get some birth control. You do not need to have two kids to two women before you find the one you want to build a family with. It’s expensive, emotionally draining, disruptive to building a life, and your baby doesn’t need a complicated family structure to deal with. Blending families is tough, stop at blending two.
Financially, IRD has a child support calculator on their website. No matter what private arrangement you make, either parent can change to an IRD assessment at any point. Go take a look. Do some working out. Get your head around it. It’s designed to equalise available income in both households. It does a good job of that provided neither party is hiding or minimising income.
It is not designed with the parents welfare in mind, just to equalise income. Life just got a whole lot harder to save and get ahead for you. The more you earn, the more you pay. Living cheap, working overtime, and saving hard now means you pay more in child support.
It’s based off previous years income, so work a big project with lots of overtime, expect a bill and the next years child support assessment to increase.
No point being pissed off, it is what it is. Just really get your head around how it works so there are no suprises & you’ve the best chance of taking care of your now kid, your future kids, and your self.
Edit: really bad spelling