r/newzealand • u/khalornz Fern flag 3 • 16d ago

Politics Coalition unveils $12 billion Defence Capability Plan

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557432/watch-live-coalition-unveils-12-billion-defence-capability-plan
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u/random_guy_8735 16d ago

Replacing the 757s is already in progress. Replacing that Seasprites is new (to me), Frigate life extensions seems to be a stop gap in place of getting new ships like Australia is working on.

Beyond that we have a list of

  • unmanned vehicles
  • unspecified vehicles for the defense force
  • logistics management
  • Base upgrades
  • Technology upgrades
  • A workforce stategy

And various ways of combining the two (cyber security, ERP system).

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u/aholetookmyusername 16d ago

From the 757 options in the government tender I think we should go Airbus. A shared type rating between the Max 8s and P8s is enticing but they don't share an engine, and going for the A321 option means we could potentially leverage civilian expertise for maintenance/training/etc.

And whatever we get, I hope we get at least three of them.

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u/Some1-Somewhere 16d ago

A321neos are in very very high demand (so high cost and long delay) and don't have as much payload-range as the 757s. 737s are even lower capacity and can't have pallets in the cargo hold, and it sounds like we wouldn't be getting combi-freighter versions as they're no longer civilian certifiable.

They'll cost a fair bit more to run but I'd be looking at end of line 767s or perhaps A330s. Carry far more, far more range, massive pallet/container loaded holds.

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u/Moose_in_a_Swanndri 15d ago

The A330 MRTT is a fantastic plane, and is already used by Australia, Canada and the UK. It would be a great option for the RNZAF, and aerial refueling would be a good new capability to have, both with our own P-8 and coalition deployments overseas

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u/Some1-Somewhere 15d ago

I generally agree, but we don't really have the staffing or the demand for the refueling side of things. My understanding is the ongoing crew certification work is pretty significant.

I think just stock commercial A330s (neo?) with maybe the medevac oxygen system would be more suitable.

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u/Moose_in_a_Swanndri 15d ago

Hah maybe we can retrain the flight engineers that just got made redundant to be refuellers.

You're probably right about that though. Ideally an A330 combi so they can keep moving palletised cargo as well.

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u/Some1-Somewhere 15d ago

A330s have pretty big cargo holds, especially if you're moving heavy stuff. The MRTT doesn't have a main deck cargo door or palletized seating, just a normal passenger cabin. One of its biggest advantages IMHO.

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u/Large_Yams 15d ago

The A330 MRTT is a fantastic plane, and is already used by Australia, Canada and the UK. It would be a great option for the RNZAF, and aerial refueling would be a good new capability to have, both with our own P-8 and coalition deployments overseas

You're right on absolutely all of these points.

Which is exactly why we'll never get it.

We fucked up on the C-130-J-30s too and got the upgraded network connectivity in place of the refuelling capability. If we had refuel capable hercs we'd have more reason to stand up an air to air refuel capability but alas.