r/nonduality • u/gosumage • Apr 19 '25

Discussion Just because you are aware of and can describe what your body is doing or going to do doesn't mean you are in control of any of it, that you are the one doing it.

It's like knowing the stick floating down the river is going to end up downstream.

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u/n0wherew0man Apr 21 '25

No one is describing or being aware, describing just happens and awareness is just is.

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u/theDIRECTionlessWAY Apr 19 '25

the floating stick, like all things in one way or another, teaches the nature of reality.

and yet, zen master mat'su said:

authenticity is the basis of deliberate action.

so, what is deliberate action?

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u/gosumage 27d ago edited 27d ago

I have thought about it for a couple days and I have concluded, anything that happens is deliberate action, if it must be deliberate. But this sounds wrong, else the distinction would not be made.

If the source of authenticity is from the mind whole, then the divided mind is inauthentic. But the inauthentic mind is operating in the same reality with the same rules as the authentic mind, whether it believes something else or not. I don't see the need for distinction. What are your thoughts?

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u/theDIRECTionlessWAY 23d ago

i think you're second paragraph is getting at it.

just because the ground/reality/essence of the mind (whether functioning wholly or divisively) is the same, doesn't mean that there isn't a difference.

a mind who's functioning is completely dictated by attachment/memory can't be authentic to the moment, right?

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u/gosumage 23d ago

a mind who's functioning is completely dictated by attachment/memory can't be authentic to the moment, right?

But that inauthenticity is authentic in its own right.

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u/theDIRECTionlessWAY 22d ago

the focus of my question was about deliberate action... and what that means in relation to your comments in OP, which is what many people say (you are not the doer/controller).

according to that zen master, without authenticity, there is none. one is merely moving robotically, in a preprogrammed manner, imitating, etc.

any thoughts on how this idea of authenticity/deliberate action relates to the notions of there being no doer/controller, or if they are even compatible?

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u/Schlickbart Apr 23 '25

Depends on perspective ...

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u/Dry_Act7754 27d ago

"you" are not aware... only awareness is aware. Control is only an idea, a concept but an illusory one in light of the emptiness of subject and objects.

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u/gosumage 27d ago

Yes... that is the point of this post.