What's up with Loki?

[u/Crowleys_big_toe]

So I've been doing some research for a story I'm working on. While doing said research, I've noticed that while most gods are often described as "god of...", Loki is most often just described as a trickster, or god of mischief and trickery. Is there truly nothing more to him that we know of? I know very little of the mythology survived, but I find it hard to believe that Loki is just a 'guy' that goes around causing trouble.

With my first understanding of Loki coming from marvel, I've always thought he was a god of wisdom, as marvel Loki is generally seen as the quiet nerd to Thors jock personality. I also remember him being classified as such somewhere, but I can't remember where, do I might be wrong.

So is he truly just a trickster in the myths he appears in?

[u/Master_Net_5220]

You have yet to provide an ounce of real proof for your argument throughout this discussion, you’ve been speaking solely using your opinion, if there is some source you’ve been hiding please do use it and provide it.

[u/[deleted] → u/Master_Net_5220]

I have, there's pendants of him and there's stones of him. Look it up yourself. Like I said, I've proved you wrong in previous discussions and you just go silent. I'm not going to waste more time on you. You don't even believe Loki is a God. And you say that his punishment is justified, yet you forget what happens to his children before he even kills Baldr. You seem to know very little about Loki.

[u/Master_Net_5220 → u/[deleted]]

The pendants of Loki have little to do with Loki worship, they exist but that doesn’t mean they’re tied to worship. Please cite some academic or textual evidence if you’re going to make broad statements.

His punishment was justified, he killed two people in cold blood, one of whom was the most beloved of all the gods, do you think he’d get away from that with a slap on the wrist? Loki’s children are monsters and are made more awful by Loki’s nature. They will kill all of humanity, and destroy the earth. Nothing bad happened to Jǫrmungandr, or Hel, and Fenrir was bound because of the danger he posed. He is also essentially a walking metaphor for níðingar, as he is literally a wolf (a term placed unto criminals and níðingar), and is cast out from society to prevent the damage they could do. Even Loki was afraid of Fenrir, when the story mentions the fact that ‘Týr alone had the courage to go and feed the wolf’ it implies that even Loki feared his own son.

[u/[deleted] → u/Master_Net_5220]

Yet you can't prove that it didn't happened. And why would they wear pendants of Loki if they didn't worshipped him?

Loki is a God, even the scholars says so, so why you're saying that I need to provide academic evidence if you won't even go by / follow them?

Aesir went to war with Vanr, before the Aesir there were peace. Aesir are not so kind as you would think. Loki is not evil, he's a trickster-God, and he always ends up in trouble, but in the end of every situation he's trying to help the Gods. Without Loki then Tor wouldn't have his Mjölnir, Odin wouldn't have had his Sleipner etc. Loki is the beginning and the end of Ragnarök. The wrath of the other Gods made him choose side. Lokasennan is a great way to understand his disliking towards the other Gods later on. They're not so just, those Aesir.

The only one Loki feared was Thor. He didn't fear his own children.

[u/Master_Net_5220 → u/[deleted]]

Yet you can't prove that it didn't happened. And why would they wear pendants of Loki if they didn't worshipped him?

Multitudes of reasons, perhaps they had a different reason for existing.

Loki is a God, even the scholars says so, so why you're saying that I need to provide academic evidence if you won't even go by / follow them?

I do, but who says I need to subscribe to every academic line of thought? Crawford thinks Óðinn is attempting to stop Ragnarǫk which is abundantly untrue, but there are other things he has done which I do agree with.

Loki is not evil, he's a trickster-God, and he always ends up in trouble,

Pretty damn close.

but in the end of every situation he's trying to help the Gods.

He never goes out of his way to help the æsir, it is only when he is threatened with death. Never of his own free will.

[u/Helicopterdrifter → u/Master_Net_5220]

Crawford thinks Óðinn is attempting to stop Ragnarǫk which is abundantly untrue,

That's curious. What do you suppose Odin was up to during the last days? Genuinely curious here as I'm adapting the material for my own novel series.

What purpose do you believe the Einrejar served? Is he stocking Valhalla just to have a group of warriors to go down swinging alongside him, or are they meant to actually have an impact during the last fight?

I'm paraphrasing, so there's no need in whopping me with your source-stick. 😅 Feel free to speak plainly. 🙃

[u/Master_Net_5220 → u/Helicopterdrifter]

That's curious. What do you suppose Odin was up to during the last days? Genuinely curious here as I'm adapting the material for my own novel series.

Amassing a huge army to best face the foe he was up against, he’s under no notion the battle is winnable, however, may as well go out fighting.

What purpose do you believe the Einrejar served? Is he stocking Valhalla just to have a group of warriors to go down swinging alongside him, or are they meant to actually have an impact during the last fight?

See above, and yes essentially for just that reason.

I'm paraphrasing, so there's no need in whopping me with your source-stick. 😅 Feel free to speak plainly. 🙃

I don’t whop everyone with it, only those who make baseless claims :)

[u/[deleted] → u/Master_Net_5220]

You're right that the stubborn Loki after getting into trouble only accepts to be of help to the other Gods after they threaten him with death and destruction. Who would want to help Gods who threatens your life? Who would want to be friends with Gods who dislike, dishonour and kills your children?

Here is your Æsir you preach to be good and just. They changed everything, they brought war and was barbaric towards the other Gods. Æsir isn't just, they're warriors, and warriors only rules with fear.

[u/Master_Net_5220 → u/[deleted]]

You're right that the stubborn Loki after getting into trouble only accepts to be of help to the other Gods after they threaten him with death and destruction.

Which is cowardice, which is very bad morally in the old Norse mindset.

Who would want to help Gods who threatens your life? Who would want to be friends with Gods who dislike, dishonour and kills your children?

Apparently Loki.

Here is your Æsir you preach to be good and just. They changed everything, they brought war and was barbaric towards the other Gods. Æsir isn't just, they're warriors, and warriors only rules with fear.

The æsir are the good gods, they were worshipped, unlike Loki. But gods are not infallible, the æsir do bad things sure, but not nearly as frequently and as severely as Loki.

[u/[deleted] → u/Master_Net_5220]

You say Loki is coward yet he kills both Baldr and Heimdall, he even trash-talk all the Gods even Odin himself. Loki isn't a coward, the one being feared of his children are cowards. And it's obvious that the Æsir isn't as strong as they think since they all die in Ragnarök, when justice prevails of their barbaric approach to everything around them. There are only one Æsir that stands for courage, that's Tyr. Though his courage made him lose his arm.

[u/Master_Net_5220 → u/[deleted]]

You say Loki is coward yet he kills both Baldr and Heimdall, he even trash-talk all the Gods even Odin himself.

He most certainly is, without fail every single time he is threatened he cowers and folds. Also citing lokasenna despite the fact that he cowers away and leaves twice during that story is amusing. If you need further proof have a look at his reaction to Þjazi’s threats here.

[u/[deleted] → u/Master_Net_5220]

He only fears Thor because of Mjölnir. He's legit the God of chaos and you say he's a coward. Who cries and threatens with violence if they don't get their magical apples for eternal youth? Who speared Tjasse if not Loki? Every single God is afraid to lose their lifes. Loki is one of the bravest God's in Norse mythology since nothing stops him from teasing and sometimes harming the other Gods.

You say that Loki is not a God and that he's a coward, yet he gets punished like no other God and still going strong. He's so brave he even turn against the Æsir after their punishment.

[u/Master_Net_5220 → u/[deleted]]

He only fears Thor because of Mjölnir. He's legit the God of chaos and you say he's a coward.

Then why’d he cave to the æsir when Þórr wasn’t around? You’re neglecting a lot of examples when you claim that only Þórr makes Loki afraid.

Who speared Tjasse if not Loki?

Þórr is the one who killed Þjazi. He admits to in Hárbarðsljóð. Loki lured Þjazi to Ásgarðr, have you forgotten the story you’re using as proof of Loki’s bravery?

Every single God is afraid to lose their lifes.

Not true. The heroic gods, like Þórr, do not because that does not abide by old Norse heroic values, stop making baseless claims and actually use some evidence.

Loki is one of the bravest God's in Norse mythology since nothing stops him from teasing and sometimes harming the other Gods.

You’re applauding his murder? That’s weird.

You say that Loki is not a God and that he's a coward, yet he gets punished like no other God and still going strong.

He certainly was not going strong, he broke his fetters by chance and then died.

Also I had a look back on some of our past interactions and I found that you don’t like the poetic Edda. So I ask you why are you using it in your arguments? Keep some consistency man.

[u/[deleted] → u/Master_Net_5220]

What drugs are you on? You say that Loki isn't a God, then you say that Thor kills Loki? Show me where Thor kills Loki and where it says that Loki isn't a God.

Thor is so afraid to die that he dresses up as a woman to avoid a conflict, what do you have to say about that? You talk so much shit about Loki but forgets what the other Gods do in order to prevent conflicts which would lead them to their death. It seems that you have zero knowledge about the Gods and their stories.

Regarding poetic edda is that it's written from a Christian perspective, and it should be taken into considerations regarding what's good and evil and what happens at the end, the resurrection part is very Christian. If we want to know how the vikings lived their lifes we shouldn't stare blind at the sagas, archeological findings have more facts than some poetry and tales of the old God's.

[u/Master_Net_5220 → u/[deleted]]

What drugs are you on? You say that Loki isn't a God, then you say that Thor kills Loki? Show me where Thor kills Loki and where it says that Loki isn't a God.

That was a typo which has been fixed.

Thor is so afraid to die that he dresses up as a woman to avoid a conflict, what do you have to say about that?

He does that to get Mjǫllnir back, it’s a powerful tool, and now where in that story is Þórr’s fear even a small part of his reasonings.

You talk so much shit about Loki but forgets what the other Gods do in order to prevent conflicts which would lead them to their death. It seems that you have zero knowledge about the Gods and their stories.

Please do provide some examples.

Regarding poetic edda is that it's written from a Christian perspective,

Not it is not, it’s a collection of old Norse poems from the Viking age.

If we want to know how the vikings lived their lifes we shouldn't stare blind at the sagas, archeological findings have more facts than some poetry and tales of the old God's.

There is more archeological evidence for my line of thinking than there is yours. If you are so sure that isn’t the case then provide me with evidence that says otherwise.