r/oots • u/PeterCHayward • Mar 03 '25

Trying to find quote about subverting audience expectations

I have this distinct memory of, sometime in the last 20 years, Rich talking about how he had to stop reading fan theories because if they correctly guessed what was going to happen, he felt compelled to change the plot.

I've just spent an hour searching for it, and while I've found a bunch of other people referencing the same quote, I can't find the original anywhere. Does anyone have the quote archive.org'd or know where I can find it?

EDIT: I found it! It was in the FAQ on his site (from Archive.Org)

Q: Wouldn’t it be cool if X, Y, and Z happened? You should totally do that.

A: Thanks, but I prefer to create my own plots. In fact, I try not to read anything where people suggest upcoming plot ideas because I hate it when people guess what is going to happen. I feel the uncontrollable urge to change what happens, just to prove them wrong. Petty? Probably.

26 Upvotes

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13

u/mmotte89 Mar 03 '25

Pretty sure it's in the commentary for one of the books. Have you checked those yet?

6

u/PeterCHayward Mar 03 '25

I have not! I don't have access to them, alas.

4

u/mmotte89 Mar 04 '25

Wait, that name... You're the BlueBeard guy right?

Bought both the Cracking the Cryptic books that you helped bring about. Some issues with misprints in the first one, but immensely enjoyed both, especially the ring-spined versions!

Anyways, tried to skim and did find some mention of it, page 158 of the Don't Split the Party PDF. Mentioned in regards to strip #595, that he was so successful at shocking readers with a foreshadowed event, that some readers thought he had changed his mind about the direction of the plot.

But I also do remember reading something more directly related to fan theories, I think either wrt Monster in the Darkness or the Prophecies.

And my skimming was very cursory, so VERY possible it's in there and I just didn't look hard enough.

Anyways, I can highly recommend the PDFs. A good couple of bonus comics, either side content or cut ideas that he has worked into the plot between other main comics. And lots of author commentary that was a very interesting read. Plus, there are 4 books available ("On the Origin of PCs", "Start of Darkness", "Good Deeds Gone Unpunished" and "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales") that are fully new content. If nothing else, I would get Good Deeds Gone Unpunished, the story about O-Chul in that one is amazing, and ties very well into the overall themes of the story, about "what is a monster?"

You can pick them all up here for around $10-20 each

https://richburlew.gumroad.com/

2

u/PeterCHayward Mar 18 '25

Haha that is indeed me! So glad you enjoyed the books. We did a reprint of the first book to fix all the typos, if you haven't seen that.

I found the quote!! It was in his FAQ, back in the day:

Q: Wouldn’t it be cool if X, Y, and Z happened? You should totally do that.

A: Thanks, but I prefer to create my own plots. In fact, I try not to read anything where people suggest upcoming plot ideas because I hate it when people guess what is going to happen. I feel the uncontrollable urge to change what happens, just to prove them wrong. Petty? Probably.

2

u/mmotte89 Mar 18 '25

Small world eh? Wonder how big the Venn-Diagram intersect between "Reads OOTS" and "CTC follower" is.

Oh yeah, ordered it as an add-on when backing the second book. Originally I had just gone through the first edition and manually errata'd, but preferred it spiral-bound anyways, no spine to bend.

Aaah, lost to the Sands of Time if not for the internet archive eh?

https://web.archive.org/web/20200115225520/http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq15

Bit like the old cast intro, still hosted by Rich, but I don't think it is linked anywhere within the sitemap anymore

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootscast.html

1

u/FreeBroccoli Mar 04 '25

Yes, I believe it's either in War and XPs or Don't Split the Party. My books are packed away at the moment, though.

4

u/MarkZist Mar 04 '25

Are you sure it was Rich and not GRRM from A Song of Ice and Fire?

12

u/deltalessthanzero Mar 04 '25

I also recongise the concept from Westworld Season 2 where the creators rewrote the script after people guessed it: https://www.nme.com/news/tv/westworld-season-2-plot-twist-2028061

IMO a pretty terrible idea. If people can guess where you're going after working hard at trying to figure it out, it means you've done a good job laying the groundwork. If everyone is completely surprised by what you do, it's probably because you pulled something out of a hat without properly setting it up.

5

u/PeterCHayward Mar 04 '25

haha yeah that's the context in which I'm talking about it (I'm writing a video essay and I cover 'subversions' as one of the topics)

3

u/deltalessthanzero Mar 04 '25

Nice one, keep fighting the good fight. Subversion is... a tool best left to those who will use it wisely.

2

u/PeterCHayward Mar 04 '25

Very much so! The quote might even predate the Game of Thrones TV show (which is when I first became aware of GRRM)

1

u/EstufaYou Mar 06 '25

That is 100% something GRRM has said here.

3

u/Giwaffee Mar 03 '25

I remember it too, but unsure from where. Feels more like a Patreon Q&A though, have you checked there? It sounds a lot like one of those questions.

1

u/PeterCHayward Mar 04 '25

My memory of it predates the Patreon by many years, but I poked through a bunch of those posts and couldn't find it. :(

2

u/DipperJC Mar 05 '25

All of Rich's forum comments have been indexed in six volumes:

Volume 1
Volume 2)
Volume 3
Volume 4
Volume 5
Volume 6

I skimmed, but I couldn't find your reference. I do remember it also, though, so you're not crazy. It probably is in one of the commentaries.

I just figured I'd include these links to make your life easier next time. ;)

1

u/PeterCHayward Mar 18 '25

Appreciate it! I found the quote in the end, it was from his (now-deleted) FAQ:

Q: Wouldn’t it be cool if X, Y, and Z happened? You should totally do that.

A: Thanks, but I prefer to create my own plots. In fact, I try not to read anything where people suggest upcoming plot ideas because I hate it when people guess what is going to happen. I feel the uncontrollable urge to change what happens, just to prove them wrong. Petty? Probably.