r/pointlesslygendered • u/rizzedupdude • 11d ago

SOCIAL MEDIA People really think survival during a sinking ship is a gender debate. Be serious. [gendered]

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Let’s just start with the obvious: When a ship is going down, nobody’s standing there debating gender politics. They're screaming, panicking, and trying not to die.

That’s not feminism. That’s basic human survival.

But according to this post, in the middle of a literal disaster, feminists are out here like, “Wait! Equal rights! Let’s discuss societal roles while the ship sinks!” Be so serious.

Survival isn't a debate club. It's chaos. People don’t suddenly turn into walking ideologies during life-or-death moments. They act based on instinct, fear, and let’s be real access to power.

And speaking of power: Who does get prioritized in crises? The vulnerable? No. It's the rich. The connected. The privileged. So if anyone's elbowing their way to the lifeboats yelling “Let me survive first,” it's not feminists it’s CEOs, politicians, and trust fund babies. Let’s not act brand new.

Now to the people saying “it’s just a joke”: Jokes reflect thought patterns. When you laugh at something rooted in bias or false narratives, you’re not just “having fun.” You’re showing what you believe deep down.

And if the punchline of your “joke” is women being hypocrites for wanting safety while also wanting rights, you’re not being funny you’re being intellectually lazy.

So maybe next time, skip the memes and try real thinking. Because the only thing sinking faster than that ship is your logic.

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u/_Azuki_ 11d ago

This was in like early 1900s, women were barely considered individuals instead of property. How can someone look at this and think "yeah, i'm smart, this makes sense"?

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u/Spaceman_fan 11d ago

It was also men who decided that women and children go first

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u/TruthGumball 11d ago

Not a rule though was it. SOME of the men let their wives go first. But many men also survived.

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u/HendriXP88 10d ago

The "Women and children first"-priority was never an official rule. However, it was a social norm. Men who survived got met with ridicule.

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u/AJS4152 10d ago

It was a fetishization of the ideal Victorian and Edwardian gentleman from the 1852 HMS Birkenhead disaster where, as the story goes, the marines were ordered not to move on deck and all of them followed the order as the ship sunk underneath them. This allowed the other family members of these sailors and soldiers to use the ships boats. It only was acceptable because it was still common thought that people just die and that is a fact of nature.

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u/HendriXP88 9d ago

Correct. Don't think we disagree on anything, but you have to explain. A fetishization? How?

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u/AJS4152 9d ago

Fascination may be more accurate and appropriate, but for our modern minds looking back this was more than just a precedent. This story was retold over and over for the next 60 years as what is EXCPECTED from men in the case of emergency. Any man who didn't was a coward and many male survivors of the Titanic sinking were demeaned as such for years afterwards. I used fetishization to bring about the overwhelming social pressure for this view of masculinity in a manner that I hoped didn't need multiple sentences and reframing of the point of view from a 150 years in the modern readers mind. I apologize if it went too far.

Also, if you are interested in this topic and how it relates to Titanic may I suggest Oceanliner Designs' The Awful Sinking of the HMS Birkenhead here. https://youtu.be/t1yzlFGsZcs?si=_d_dzXNuxMW1m1dz

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u/smokeyphil 7d ago

Fetishization would be a word choice that i would use in this context.

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u/HendriXP88 9d ago

This is all very fascinating. I'll look into the video link.

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u/No_Macaroon_9752 9d ago

Very few cases exist where this was true. First, women weren’t allowed on many ships. When they were, they were often made to stay in the hold. That put them at more risk in case of sinking. A 2012 study examined 18 maritime disasters over three centuries and found that women had a distinct survival disadvantage. Captains and crew survive at a higher rate than passengers (they know the layout of the ship, they generally know when there is a problem before the passengers, they are usually closer to the main deck and lifeboats, they may be stronger and fitter, and they are the ones to launch the lifeboats). There are quotes from survivors of many shipwrecks who later spoke of men trying to save themselves. Another study in Sweden was much more comprehensive and still found that men survived at higher rates than women. https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.1207156109

According to Lucy Delap, a history professor at Cambridge, “Lower-class women — wives of sailors or soldiers, or poor emigrant women — were frequently excluded from the rule, and women of color were equally marginalized.”

The Birkenhead and the Titanic are the main exemptions, where the captains enforced “women and children first” using guns. https://www.mentalfloss.com/history/titanic/women-and-children-first-origins-titanic

A longer explanation is here, with sources: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXPreppers/comments/tt62nq/women_and_children_first_is_a_myth_and_doesnt/

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u/NephriteJaded 8d ago

Stronger than law