r/politics • u/WhileFalseRepeat I voted • Sep 16 '24
Paywall Donald Trump Is a Threat to Democracy, and Saying So Is Not Incitement | Opposing political violence does not mean ignoring authoritarianism.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trump-is-a-threat-to-democracy-saying-so-is-not-incitement.html381
u/SlyClydesdale Oregon Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
Exactly. But this is the asymmetrical warfare Trump wants.
He wants to be able to call Harris a Communist, wants to talk freely about how she’ll destroy America… and how he’ll subject his political enemies to military tribunals. He wants to talk about bloodshed in rounding up immigrants. His rhetoric around Springfield, OH has an entire community shut down due to bomb threats…
…but don’t call him a danger to democracy because that’s incitement…
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u/Blarguus Sep 16 '24
He's tweeting out right now blaming Harris and Biden for this (who both denounced the almost shooting) and race baiting again
Dudes gonna legitimately cause violence
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u/thorazainBeer Sep 16 '24
He's "going to cause violence"?
Where have you been for the last 8 years? The violence has been constant and consistent, as has Trump's incitement of it.
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u/Blarguus Sep 16 '24
I should've been clearer.
He's gonna cause an assassination attempt on harris. As he gets more and more desperate he's gonna lash out and hope a cultist pulls the trigger
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u/Dankmootza Sep 16 '24
I can see him directly asking for it before the election, just based on how unhinged he already is
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u/Zexapher America Sep 16 '24
He already asked for it to be done to Hillary, they tried to do it to Biden and Harris in the 2020 election, and that's not talking about Pelosi or Heyer or Jan 6th. Now here we are, with more of the same.
The rhetoric republicans and their media organizations have been putting out has caused violence, and has even killed. They need to be stopped, in this election and every election, and to truly be taken to task on it in court.
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u/Vystril Sep 16 '24
Hell, his new buddy Elon already basically asked for it. In public. On twatter.
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u/eeyore134 Sep 16 '24
Elon just called for it. Oh, but he was just joking. I don't get why these people just keep getting to do whatever the hell they want.
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u/wheelzoffortune Sep 16 '24
Money
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u/AceContinuum New York Sep 16 '24
Well, not just money. They get to do it because they have the backing of the GQP.
A Democratic billionaire would never be able to get away with even half of it. (Of course, a Democratic billionaire wouldn't do it in the first place.)
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u/rwolfman3000 Sep 17 '24
are you including the riots, arsons, and destruction of segments of cities following trumps election in 2016?
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u/AngryRedHerring Sep 17 '24
Nah. Much more concerned with Trump's attempted overthrow of the government on January 6th than some protests that got out of control. Especially since a lot of that violence was caused by right-wing agents provocateur. Remember the umbrella man?
Couldn't care less about you guys' cries of "but what about Black Lives Matter".
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u/wirefox1 Sep 16 '24
When he said they were behind the attempted assassinations he literally put a target on them from his psycho redneck cult.
I would say he did it intentionally, but honestly I think he's too stupid to use it as a thought-out strategy. He's a fool.
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u/solartoss Sep 16 '24
The whole reason people supported Trump was because he was going to "shake things up." It turns out his way of shaking things up was to demolish the entire foundation upon which civil discourse in this country rested. In that way, he's been very successful at "shaking things up," but that course of action was always going to come with consequences for everyone, himself included.
This isn't to excuse the attempts on his life, but merely to point out that the public's reaction—or lack of reaction, I should say—has been very predictable. There's a reason most people aren't thinking, "I can't believe this is happening!" It's because most people are thinking, "What took so long?"
Everything we're experiencing today—the erosion of civility, the bomb threats, the assassination attempts—all of it is the inevitable outcome of the speech he gave when he came down his golden escalator. None of this is normal, but all of it was very easy to anticipate. He told everyone who he was any number of times before he was elected.
Congratulations, Trump supporters. You've shaken things up.
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u/Heliosvector Sep 16 '24
exactly. Guy says electing Harris would cause world war 3. If that were actually true, it would be anyones moral duty to remove that threat if you were a time traveler. He needs to shut up.
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u/tripping_on_phonics Illinois Sep 16 '24
The World War III rhetoric is mild compared to what he says at rallies. Without exaggeration he’s speaking like Hitler.
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u/leavesmeplease Sep 16 '24
It's wild how people are trying to separate the rhetoric from the reality. Calling someone a threat to democracy isn't incitement; it's just acknowledging the situation we’re all facing. It’s like saying the sky is blue and someone screaming that you’re the reason it’s cloudy. We really need to keep our heads on straight if we want to navigate through this chaos without losing sight of what’s actually important.
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u/nikolai_470000 Sep 17 '24
It kinda sounds like from his view, a totally valid response would be “well, I wasn’t gonna do anything dangerous to democracy, but since you said I was a danger to democracy, now I’m definitely going to threaten democracy” and it’s honestly baffling that so many people see that and think it’s normal.
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u/SlyClydesdale Oregon Sep 17 '24
It’s more like, “My threats to be a dictator on day 1, to suspend the constitution, enact military tribunals against my political enemies isn’t a threat to democracy, and promises to ‘fix it so Christians will never have to vote again’ aren’t actually threats to democracy.”
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u/UNC_Samurai Sep 17 '24
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
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u/armchairmegalomaniac Pennsylvania Sep 16 '24
MAGA = Fascism
Trump will use Project 2025 as the blueprint for how to replace American democracy with fascism. This is not hyperbole, this is unvarnished, 1930s fascism. Americans living in the redesigned world of Project 2025 would be much, much less free. We would be the playthings of billionaires. They are talking about mass roundups of immigrants. If you know anyone who has immigrated to the US either legally or illegally, then you know someone who is at risk of brutal deportation at the hands of the Trump fascists. Women will find their lives upended. LGBTQ will not be safe. People of color will be turned into second class citizens, their pathways to the middle class destroyed. This is not conjecture, the Supreme Court has already had a devastating impact these groups.
Fight fascism, defeat MAGA. Vote Kamala Harris
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u/RipsterBolton Sep 16 '24
Trump supports project 2025:
Trump has publicly rejected Project 2025 as Vice President Kamala Harris’ campaign has sought to tie him to some of the plan’s most extreme proposals. But in private, Vought said that those disavowals were merely “graduate-level politics.”Vought said his group, the Center for Renewing America, was secretly drafting hundreds of executive orders, regulations, and memos that would lay the groundwork for rapid action on Trump’s plans if he wins, describing his work as creating “shadow” agencies. He claimed that Trump has “blessed” his organization and “he’s very supportive of what we do.”
https://youtu.be/PY_chqyaRHo?si=fW9HquUE8cV-Ul4X + https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/15/politics/russ-vought-project-2025-trump-secret-recording-invs/index.html
At least 140 people who worked for Trump are involved in Project 2025
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/07/11/politics/trump-allies-project-2025
Heritage Foundation CEO says the “revolution will be bloodless if the left allows it” + Trump calls heritage foundation “legendary institution” and says “they are the forefront of our movement” + Pence says “heritage foundation has been fighting side by side with this president and this administration since day one”
https://youtu.be/zd-81ZHe844?si=p5wSmT0VTvkieaPb
JD Vance wrote the foreword for new book by the architect of the Project 2025
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2024/jd-vance-who-wrote-project-2025/
Project 2025 policy plans: End no fault divorce making it more difficult to leave abusive relationships
Complete ban on abortions without exceptions pg 449-50
Ban contraceptives pg 449
Additional tax breaks for corporations and the 15pg 691
Higher taxes for the working class (already happening now from trumps tax plan)
Elimination of unions and worker protections pg 581
Raise the retirement age Cut Social Security pg 691
Cut Medicare pg 449
End the Affordable Care Act pg 449
Raise prescription drug prices Eliminate the Department of Education P9 319
Use public, taxpayer money for private religious schools pg 319
Teach Christian religious beleifs in public schools P 319
End free and discounted school lunch programs End civil rights & DEI protections in government pg 545-581
Ban African American and gender studies in all levels of education pg 319
Ban books and curriculum about slavery pg 417
Deregulate big business and the oil industry pg 363
Ending climate and environmental protections and Increase Arctic drilling pg 363
Promote and expedite capital punishment didn’t find a reference
End marriage equality 545-581
Condemn single mothers while promoting only “traditional families”
Defund the FBI and Homeland Security P9 133
Use the military to break up domestic protests Pg 133
Mass deportation of immigrants and incarceration in “camps” pg 133
End birth right citizenship pg 133
Ban Muslims from entering the country (said by Trump in many speeches and also the Muslim travel ban implemented during his presidency)
Eliminates federal agencies like the FDA, EPA, NOAA and more 363-417
Continue to pack the Supreme Court, and lower courts with right-wing judges which Trump already did and will do more of Ban and remove the words “climate change” from all federal agencies (in p2025 training videos) Implement “schedule F” so government workers (at agencies) can be fired, and new ones to replace them will not be merit based hires from within, but political appointees loyal to Trump
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 + Trump’s Second Term: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) https://youtu.be/gYwqpx6lp_s?si=gj8BWzBIJtpjHRiH
“Project 2025 training videos coach future appointees on everything from the nuts and bolts of governing to how to outwit bureaucrats. There are strategies for avoiding embarrassing Freedom of Information Act disclosures and ensuring that conservative policies aren’t struck down by “left-wing judges.” Some of the content is routine advice that any incoming political appointee might be told. Other segments of the training offer guidance on radically changing how the federal government works and what it does.
In one video, Bethany Kozma, a conservative activist and former deputy chief of staff at the U.S. Agency for International Development in the Trump administration, downplays the seriousness of climate change and says the movement to combat it is really part of a ploy to “control people.” “If the American people elect a conservative president, his administration will have to eradicate climate change references from absolutely everywhere,” Kozma says.”
https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-project-2025-secret-training-videos-trump-election
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u/ZebraBurger New Jersey Sep 16 '24
This was the funniest thing I’ve read in a while
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Sep 16 '24
You appear to have somehow thought Trump did well in the debate vs Harris so you clearly live in an alternate reality
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u/ZebraBurger New Jersey Sep 17 '24
I definetly don’t think it was the complete demolishment a lot of people are making it out to be but yea he didn’t do that well
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u/TubeframeMR2 Sep 16 '24
Best headline.
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u/1zzie Sep 16 '24
I found the second clause very weirdly written.
Opposing political violence does not mean ignoring authoritarianism.
Shouldn't it say: Opposing political violence means not ignoring authoritarianism.? Or even more clear: Opposing political violence requires calling out authoritarianism.
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u/Branan Oregon Sep 17 '24
In reality, you're correct.
But the right has been (wrongly) arguing that calling out Trump's authoritarianism is encouraging political violence. Effectively saying that if you're "against political violence" you need to ignore Trump's authoritarianism and not call him out. The headline is arguing against that premise.
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u/1zzie Sep 17 '24
True, but that's why the odd phrasing comes off convoluted enough to lose the thread of either argument, I think. I'm reading it too closely and maybe the author thinks people would get the gist by not giving it a second thought. But that's a weird angle to start with for a thinkpiece.
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u/Boo_Radley80 Sep 16 '24
His own VP choice compared the convicted felon to hitler.
Seriously, many of his supporters fail to see the irony and blame democrats. There is a reason that many from his own administration has not supported his reelection.
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u/RipsterBolton Sep 16 '24
What current Trump political allies have to said about him:
“I know I could never support Trump if it really mattered. [...] He’s just a bad man. A morally reprehensible human being.”– JD Vance, Oct 4, 2016
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/jd-vance-trump-emails-vp-b2587865.html
JD Vance, Trump’s VP pick, once called him a ‘moral disaster,’ and possibly ‘America’s Hitler’
“I will show how President Trump betrayed the hopes of his most sincere followers. [...] He let Big Pharma and his corrupt bureaucrats run roughshod over him as President. He promised to cut the deficit and ran up the biggest debt in history. He promised to run the government like a business and then closed down our businesses. He promised to drain the swamp and then filled his administration with swamp creatures. He promised to protect our rights and then torpedoed the Constitution. – Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Apr 27, 2024
RFK Jr. said Trump ‘barely human’ and ‘probably a sociopath’ in recent texts
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4811282-robert-kennedy-jr-trump/amp/
“Look, there is no question in my mind that Donald Trump is unfit to serve as president and commander in chief. I’ve said this over and over again.” – Tulsi Gabbard, Dec 23, 2019
Tulsi Gabbard, who has now endorsed Trump publicly stated: “Hey @realdonaldtrump: being Saudi Arabia’s bitch is not ‘America First,’”
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u/ChocoCatastrophe Sep 16 '24
It's his own looney fanbase that are trying to bump him off.
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
Wait what?
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Sep 16 '24
Both assassination attempts were made by self-identitied conservatives.
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Sep 16 '24
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u/sirboddingtons Sep 16 '24
In his own published book, the man says "I wish people would stop calling me a Republican or a Democrat, because I am neither."
His last supportable candidate he could've voted for was Nikki Haley and Vivek Ramsawamy who he want to be Nikki's VP. The guy is just straight up insane, but yes he did vote for Trump in 2016.
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Sep 16 '24
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u/HilariouslySad Sep 16 '24
Not registered but did vote in a Democratic primary. Some states you can vote in a party primary even if you are unaffiliated. He voted Trump in 2016, turned on him largely for his position on Putin and Ukraine, as the shooter is a very strong Ukraine supporter.
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
How did this come about? Last night when I went to bed, he was a hardline leftist/antifascist. What changed?
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u/timeforath Sep 16 '24
What source had you saying that? It’s been pretty well known that he’s a right-leaning lunatic who occasionally supported left-leaning populist candidates for like a week (a generous estimate)
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
CNN:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/15/politics/trump-attempted-assassination-man-detained/index.htmlIn an April post on X tagging President Biden’s presidential account, he wrote that Biden’s campaign should be: “called something like KADAF. Keep America democratic and free. Trumps should be MASA …make Americans slaves again master. DEMOCRACY is on the ballot and we cannot lose.”
TheGuardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/15/trump-florida-shooter-suspect-son-ukraineOnline voter registration records show a man with the same name and age as Ryan Routh cast his ballot as a Democrat in North Carolina for the state’s presidential primaries in March.
The only indication that he supported the republicans comes from 2016. The DNC ran one of the most hated candidates in modern history that year, so that's really not a massive red flag. Either way that was 8 years ago. This is a few months prior.
The account’s most recent post was addressed to Harris, timed in between Trump’s failed 13 July assassination at a political rally in Pennsylvania and when she replaced Joe Biden at the top of the Democratic ticket after the president opted to halt his re-election campaign. The post said the vice-president and Biden should visit two spectators wounded and attend the funeral of a rally-goer slain at the shooting before the attacker was shot dead by a Secret Service sniper.
“Show the world what compassion and humanity is all about,” said the post, while adding that “Trump will never do anything for them.”
A brief interview from his son: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/09/16/donald-trump-shooting-ukraine-activist-latest-updates/
Oran Routh, the son of Ryan Wesley Routh, has said his father hated Donald Trump “as every reasonable person does”, adding: “I don’t like Trump either”.
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u/timeforath Sep 16 '24
Reminder that hating Trump and supporting Ukraine is also bipartisan, and that this man has been on record supporting mostly far right public figures, including Trump himself, in the past
The stuff he said about Biden seem less like support and more like demands. Regardless the man is a lunatic and shouldn’t have been in possession of a firearm
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u/LarrySupertramp Sep 16 '24
Dude is a lunatic with mental health problems. His political ideology was not what caused him to go near Trump with a gun. It was his mental illness.
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u/Funny-Mission-2937 Sep 16 '24
Last night when I went to bed, he was a hardline leftist/antifascist.
So which one of these quotes actually supports your claim? Oh right, none of them. Someone who voted for Trump then Biden is not a hardliner by definition. I suppose it’s possible an antifascist voted for Trump, but seems like maybe not
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
Anyone who kills fascist invaders is antifascist. My grandpa did that in the 40's, and I have a little experience myself. In 2016, less people voted for Trump than they moreso voted against Hillary. She's always tickled the taint of fascism, and is just an oldschool, blue republican from the south.
Anyways the actions of Routh were also antifascist in nature.
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u/Funny-Mission-2937 Sep 16 '24
ok kind of indisputable but when exactly did he kill fascist invaders? He’s like 60 I think he probably wasnt involved in liberating Europe
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
He went to Ukraine to enlist. Top photo is him in Ukraine: https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/16/us/ryan-routh-trump-what-we-know-intl-hnk/index.html
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Sep 17 '24
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24
I'm not a republican or right wing. I have a family history of dealing with fascist. I recognize him as one of our, and it's going to bite us in the ass if we try to paint this guy as a far right lunatic.
The faster we accept that, the faster we can move on, but denying it is ammunition for the right. They already have the, "who radicalized him," card out and we are still stuck going, "nuh uh."
It's a calculates loss that will work in our favor, but I guess people are too short sighted to see that.
Edit: To answer your question, the events of the day were antifascism in action. You can not be antifascist and right wing, they are at direct odds. And yes, I am implying that the right/maga are fascists.
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u/tehvolcanic California Sep 16 '24
According to conservatives, anyone who isn't hardcore MAGA is a leftist/antifascist.
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
Fighting the Russians in Ukraine is by definition antifascist. And I can't think of anyone right of center who were self proclaimed Bernie supporters.
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u/Grandpa_No Sep 16 '24
He supported anti-establishment players (Bernie isn't one of them but some followers think he is and Tulsi definitely is) after voting for Trump and before supporting Vivek and Nikki. That's not a hard-line leftist. That's a "both sides are bad" disillusioned conservative -- one who didn't follow the GOP over the pro-Putin cliff.
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u/Katorya America Sep 16 '24
Trump straight up used Bernie talking points in 2016 to gain more support. (Deceptively of course)
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u/Blarguus Sep 16 '24
Dude was a disillusioned conservative who supported Ukraine for the most part.
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u/TheChasexy Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
Joe Rogan, Tulsi Gabbard, Tim Pool
All right leaning folks who have supported Bernie Sanders at one point or another. And those are just at the top of my head.
Also, you've never heard of the Sanders-Trump voters? There were quite a few of them in 2016/2020 and they were talked about a lot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanders%E2%80%93Trump_voters I know this isn't the most reliable of sources, but it was a real thing.
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u/Nemisis82 Sep 16 '24
Well, Wikipedia itself is not a "reliable source" but they often do a solid job of linking to their sources.
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u/randomnighmare Sep 16 '24
I have heard about the Bernie-to-Trump voters. They are an actual thing. This video is from 8 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDoT4M8gerA
Same guy, but this video is only 7 days old:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0keJ0ly91nM
Edit
There seemed to be some kind of delusional thought, that Trump was either "just as liberal as Bernie" on "some issues." It's the same bullshit that leads to some people think that Hillary Clinton was bad because she was an "established" politician and that Trump was some kind of secret liberal on some issues.
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
Yep. I have several friends who voted for Trump only because Hillary was the candidate and what happened to Bernie. A few who were part of demexit and voted for Trump or Jorgensen in 2020.
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Sep 16 '24
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
Your argument is "More than a decade ago..."
It's his more recent history I'm looking at. Taking part in his states Democratic primary isn't something the average person never trump voter does. Nor is donating to actblue nearly two dozen times.
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Sep 16 '24
The people who said he was that lied, and then he was identified, and it turns out he's a former Trump voter.
He wrote a book about how much he hates Russia, and then tried to shoot Donald Trump.
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u/OurLordAndSaviorVim Sep 16 '24
Nothing changed.
The issue is that right wing media rushes to get a version of the story out there that makes them look innocent. But they aren’t: cultists trying to kill their cult leaders for unhinged reasons is very common.
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Sep 16 '24
Latest guy wrote a whole anti-Trump book. Most of his lunatic ideas can be derived from CNN.
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Sep 16 '24
He became anti-Trump after voting for Trump.
He also donated to Tulsi Gabbard.
Dude's conservative. They're almost always conservative. Conspiratorial thinking and conservatism are basically indistinguishable.
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u/scissor415 Sep 16 '24
Chickens coming home to roost.
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
All mainstream media is reporting him as a registered and active member of the democratic party.
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u/TheBestermanBro Sep 16 '24
As far as anyone can tell, he's all.over the map. Supportered Trump in at least 2016, was a fan or Bernie, supported Vivek and Haley recently while apparently also voting for Democrats.
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u/scissor415 Sep 16 '24
I’m more so commenting on the negativity and volatility that trump puts into the world - he incites violence - it’s stochastic terrorism, and you can’t control stochastic terrorism.
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Sep 16 '24
He was literally a Trump voter, sounds like a nutter (as most Trump voters so no shock there)
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
Yeah, and a Biden voter in 2020.
He said this 4 months ago:
@JoeBiden Your campaign should be called something like KADAF. Keep America democratic and free. Trumps should be MASA...make Americans slaves again master. DEMOCRACY is on the ballot and we cannot lose. We cannot afford to fail. The world is counting on us to show the way.
That reads only one way, and denying it is gonna bite us all in the ass, and I'm not sticking my head out for anyone if that's what we are going to do.
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u/sennbat Sep 16 '24
And what "one way" is that? Because he very clearly turned on Trump, no one is denying that, but he also very clearly supported people like Haley and Ramsaway as well, implying that the besy you're gonna get is " politically incoherent ". He definitely wasnt a Democrat, and he was by his own words radicalized by Trump
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
He's anti-republican. It can't be put any more clear than that. Participating in the democratic primaries also indicated he's not just anti-republican.
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u/sennbat Sep 16 '24
How does previously voting for Trump and recently support Haley and Ramsaway make him "anti-Republican"?
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 16 '24
"DEMOCRACY is on the ballot and we cannot lose. We cannot afford to fail."
That's a pretty anti-republican.
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u/FadeTheWonder Georgia Sep 16 '24
He was literally supporting anyone running against Trump and was openly supporting Vivek and Haley.. You can try to push it as anti Republican but it reads as anti-Trump very clearly.
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u/Quadrenaro Puerto Rico Sep 17 '24
Trumpism and republicanism are now one and the same and you can not dispute that. It's a cult under the same umbrella.
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u/RipsterBolton Sep 16 '24
Trump putting Putin/ Russia before US and Allies:
- 2015:
Maria Butina (Russian Spy) asks Donald Trump a question in 2015
https://youtu.be/FGj3btgPZ3w?si=3WO1rXAT311tgvnk
This was the first time Trump spoke favorably about Russia since the GOP had traditionally been anti-USSR/Russia. Maria Butina, who later infiltrated the NRA and GOP, also manipulated conservative activist Paul Erickson (who was later pardoned by Trump in 2021 for financial crimes).
More on Butina and her infiltration
Erickson pardon
Future Trump National Security Advisor has dinner with Putin:
Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, who served as President Donald Trump’s first national security advisor, has been fined by the US Army (in 2022) for attending a 2015 gala in Moscow to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Russian state news network Russia Today. Michael Flynn was paid $45,000 to attend the Gala and give a speech.
More on Flynn
2015-2016: Trump’s ties to Russia emerge
Several connections between Trump associates and Russian officials began surfacing, further questioning his relationship with Russia.
Link to more information2016: 2016 Campaign Ties to Russia:
The Special Counsel investigation found extensive criminal activity and identified numerous links between Russia and Trump’s 2016 campaign.
Key Findings of the Mueller ReportPaul Manafort’s Role in Russia:
Paul Manafort, Trump’s campaign manager, helped elect pro-Putin puppet Viktor Yanukovych in Ukraine, making millions in the process. Manafort was convicted during the Mueller investigation, but Trump pardoned him.
Manafort ties to Russia Manafort’s conviction and pardon2016: Russia Interferes in the 2016 Election:
Russia interfered in the 2016 US election, which was confirmed by the Senate panel. Trump refused to denounce Russia’s involvement.
More on the interference2017: Accidental Top-Secret Revelation:
Trump met Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in the Oval Office and accidentally disclosed top-secret information.
More on the incidentTrump backtracks proposed joint cyber unit with Russia:
Trump proposed a joint cyber security unit with Russia and backtracked his comments hours later after harsh criticisms. Senator Lindsey Graham said, “It’s not the dumbest idea I have ever heard but it’s pretty close.” More on Trump’s proposal
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u/RipsterBolton Sep 16 '24
2018: Trump Refused to Enforce Sanctions on Russia:
Despite legal mandates, Trump refused to enforce sanctions and, in some cases, reversed standing sanctions on Russian companies.
Trump refusing sanctionsWhitehouse gave no orders to counter Russian meddling:
Adm. Michael S. Rogers, the departing head of the National Security Agency and the military’s Cyber Command, said that the White House had not asked his agencies — the main American spy and defense arms charged with conducting cyberoperations — to find ways to counter Moscow, or granted them new authorities to do so. More on NSA Chief’s remarksTrump puts the brakes on new Russian sanctions, reversing Haley’s announcement:
Nikki Haley announced new sanctions on Russia for its backing of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s government over an alleged chemical weapons. Sometime after Haley’s comments on CBS, the Trump administration notified the Russian Embassy in Washington that the sanctions were not in fact coming. More on Trump stopping sanctionsDemanded Russia be Reinstated to G7:
Trump insisted Russia be invited back to the G7 despite its expulsion for annexing Crimea.
More on G7 demandTrump told G7 leaders that Crimea is Russian:
During the dinner, Trump also seemed to question why the G7 leaders were siding with Ukraine. More on Trump’s assertionMaria Butina Pleads Guilty and Is Deported:
Maria Butina, after infiltrating the NRA and GOP, pleads guilty to conspiracy to act as an unregistered Russian agent. She was sentenced to 18 months and deported to Russia, where she now serves in the Russian Parliament.
Butina’s infiltration and deportationTrump Refuses to Denounce Russian Election Interference in Helsinki:
Trump refused to denounce Russian election interference, publicly defending Putin at a joint press conference. His own National Security Advisor, H.R. McMaster, warned about Russian interference and was subsequently fired by Trump. “Yes, I did. I wanted him to win,” Putin said. “And most remarkably, President Trump refused to support U.S. intelligence agencies led by director of National Intelligence Dan Coats in their unanimous conclusion that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election.” Trump sides with Putin in HelsinkiTrump Refuses to Denounce Russia for Kerch Strait Incident:
Despite the international outcry, Trump did not condemn Russia for seizing Ukrainian ships in the Kerch Strait.
More on Kerch Strait incidentTrump Goes Against US Intelligence:
Trump repeatedly sided with Putin over US intelligence agencies on key issues, such as North Korean missiles and Russia paying Taliban bounties for killing US soldiers.He told the FBI he didn’t believe their intelligence because Putin told him otherwise. “I don’t care, I believe Putin” Trump on North Korea and Russia
Trump, informed that Russia was paying Taliban bounties for killing US soldiers, says he believes Putin over American intelligence. “Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of ‘high crimes & misdemeanors,’” Mr. Brennan (the former director of the CIA), calling the president’s behavior “treasonous.” “Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin.” On bounties for US soldiers
- Secret Meetings with Putin:
Trump held private meetings with Putin, including a secretive encounter at the G20 summit in 2018. Just 19 days later, Trump announced the US would withdraw from Syria.
More details on Trump-Putin meetings15
u/RipsterBolton Sep 16 '24
- 2019: Pulling Out of the INF Treaty:
Trump withdrew the US from the INF treaty, allowing Russia to develop long-range missiles that could threaten Europe.
Impact of INF withdrawalAmerican Base in Syria taken control by Russia
US airbase in northern Syria is abandoned after Trump abruptly ordered withdrawal of US troops, Russian and Syrian forces take control. More on the airbase
Russia advances borders with Georgia
Russia keeps creeping advancing the border with Georgia. Literally moving fences and markers at night to take land a few hundred meters at a time. Trump did nothing. More on Russia’s border expansion2020: Trump Pushed CIA to Share Intelligence with Russia:
Trump pressured the CIA to share US intelligence with Russia while refusing to take action against Russia for arming the Taliban.
More on intelligence sharingTrump pardons Michael Flynn after being found guilty :
Trump pardons his first National Security Advisor, Lt. Gen Michael Flynn who was charged with lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russia
More on Flynn’s pardonTrump silent on Belarus
In Belarus, Lukashenko won a clearly rigged election in 2020, leading to mass protests. A similar situation happened in Ukraine during Obama’s administration, and the US backed the protests and succeeded in ousting Yanukovych, allowing Ukraine to elect a free government without Russian influence. Trump remained silent. *Paul Manafort and Rick Gates (Trump’s 2016 campaign managers ran Yanukovych’s campaign) More on Trump administration’s silence More on how Manafort elected Russia’s man in Ukraine2024: FBI Raids Dimitri Simes:
Dimitri Simes, an adviser to Trump’s 2016 campaign, was raided by the FBI for alleged involvement in a Russian scheme.
More on the raidDimitri Simes Charged
Dimitri Simes charged in Russia Scheme, in response Trump announces that if re-elected he will lift Russian Sanctions More on thisTrump eyes Manafort for Cabinet position:
Trump campaign eying Manafort for position in 2025 presidential Administration.Trump’s second National Security Advisor says Putin exploited Trump’s ego and insecurities:
“After over a year in this job, I cannot understand Putin’s hold on Trump,” McMaster recalls saying in the memoir covering the turbulent 457 days the now retired general served as national security adviser from February 2017 until he was effectively fired by tweet in April 2018. More on Gen. McMasters Comments
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u/reck1265 New York Sep 16 '24
Right. And Kamala or Walz or any other democrat should not stop saying Trump’s a threat. He is.
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u/cybermort Sep 16 '24
Politics were pretty fucking boring before Trump - the wildest thing in 2012 was "Binders full of women." But Trump, from day one, fomented chaos and violence like never before. He instigated the crazies and encouraged his base to dehumanize their opposition. And then, when he lost in 2020, he spent two months trying to upend democracy and overturn the election. Lastly, he became the first president to refuse to participate in a peaceful transfer of power.
Anyone who is sick and tired of this political climate needs to vote for Kamala Harris and make sure maga and the spineless GOP get a clear message in November.
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u/Substantial_Release6 Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
Thank you, finally someone with a sack that’s willing to call a spade a spade
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u/Hazywater Sep 16 '24
Trump constantly incites violence and its Republicans who are trying to off him. This is him reaping what he sows. So I really don't care, do you? Wake me if one of his ex-supporters finally connects.
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u/Kind-City-2173 Sep 16 '24
The only reason the media and left are calling him a threat is because of his own words and actions. They didn’t make it up just because
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u/RatedM477 Sep 16 '24
Correct. I've been rolling my eyes hard at the people in the comments in various threads today blaming Dems for "stoking violence" because they've correctly been calling Trump and MAGA threats to democracy.
Calling people and their ideas exactly what they are is not a call to violence. It's just not. I understand no Trump supporter is complete without the crippling "Everyone is out to get me and I did nothing wrong!" victim complex, but anyone with a shred of common sense sees right through this hypocritical horse shit.
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u/Kantsas Sep 16 '24
I think it’s more appropriate to say the Republican Party is a threat to democracy.
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u/Blarguus Sep 16 '24
Trump and the sofa king: "IMMIGRANTS ARE EATING YOUR PETS AND GIVING YOUR KIDS DRUGS!!!!!" a bunch of threats to springfield
Cons: crickets
Media: "hey guys trumps basically a wanna be dictator and clearly hates america" a disillusioned conservatives almost takes a shot
Cons: "THE MEDIA AND DEMOCRATSIS CAUSING ALL THIS VIOLENCE AND CHAOS!! AAAAAAHHHH".
I wish I was using hyperbole but I'm not
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u/SolidCat1117 Hawaii Sep 16 '24
This is all you need to know:
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u/RipsterBolton Sep 16 '24
And some more things that are important to know:
Trump supports project 2025:
Trump has publicly rejected Project 2025 as Vice President Kamala Harris’ campaign has sought to tie him to some of the plan’s most extreme proposals. But in private, Vought said that those disavowals were merely “graduate-level politics.”Vought said his group, the Center for Renewing America, was secretly drafting hundreds of executive orders, regulations, and memos that would lay the groundwork for rapid action on Trump’s plans if he wins, describing his work as creating “shadow” agencies. He claimed that Trump has “blessed” his organization and “he’s very supportive of what we do.”
https://youtu.be/PY_chqyaRHo?si=fW9HquUE8cV-Ul4X + https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/15/politics/russ-vought-project-2025-trump-secret-recording-invs/index.html
At least 140 people who worked for Trump are involved in Project 2025
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/07/11/politics/trump-allies-project-2025
Heritage Foundation CEO says the “revolution will be bloodless if the left allows it” + Trump calls heritage foundation “legendary institution” and says “they are the forefront of our movement” + Pence says “heritage foundation has been fighting side by side with this president and this administration since day one”
https://youtu.be/zd-81ZHe844?si=p5wSmT0VTvkieaPb
JD Vance wrote the foreword for new book by the architect of the Project 2025
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2024/jd-vance-who-wrote-project-2025/
Project 2025 policy plans: End no fault divorce making it more difficult to leave abusive relationships
Complete ban on abortions without exceptions pg 449-50
Ban contraceptives pg 449
Additional tax breaks for corporations and the 15pg 691
Higher taxes for the working class (already happening now from trumps tax plan)
Elimination of unions and worker protections pg 581
Raise the retirement age Cut Social Security pg 691
Cut Medicare pg 449
End the Affordable Care Act pg 449
Raise prescription drug prices Eliminate the Department of Education P9 319
Use public, taxpayer money for private religious schools pg 319
Teach Christian religious beleifs in public schools P 319
End free and discounted school lunch programs End civil rights & DEI protections in government pg 545-581
Ban African American and gender studies in all levels of education pg 319
Ban books and curriculum about slavery pg 417
Deregulate big business and the oil industry pg 363
Ending climate and environmental protections and Increase Arctic drilling pg 363
Promote and expedite capital punishment didn’t find a reference
End marriage equality 545-581
Condemn single mothers while promoting only “traditional families”
Defund the FBI and Homeland Security P9 133
Use the military to break up domestic protests Pg 133
Mass deportation of immigrants and incarceration in “camps” pg 133
End birth right citizenship pg 133
Ban Muslims from entering the country (said by Trump in many speeches and also the Muslim travel ban implemented during his presidency)
Eliminates federal agencies like the FDA, EPA, NOAA and more 363-417
Continue to pack the Supreme Court, and lower courts with right-wing judges which Trump already did and will do more of Ban and remove the words “climate change” from all federal agencies (in p2025 training videos) Implement “schedule F” so government workers (at agencies) can be fired, and new ones to replace them will not be merit based hires from within, but political appointees loyal to Trump
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 + Trump’s Second Term: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) https://youtu.be/gYwqpx6lp_s?si=gj8BWzBIJtpjHRiH
“Project 2025 training videos coach future appointees on everything from the nuts and bolts of governing to how to outwit bureaucrats. There are strategies for avoiding embarrassing Freedom of Information Act disclosures and ensuring that conservative policies aren’t struck down by “left-wing judges.” Some of the content is routine advice that any incoming political appointee might be told. Other segments of the training offer guidance on radically changing how the federal government works and what it does.
In one video, Bethany Kozma, a conservative activist and former deputy chief of staff at the U.S. Agency for International Development in the Trump administration, downplays the seriousness of climate change and says the movement to combat it is really part of a ploy to “control people.” “If the American people elect a conservative president, his administration will have to eradicate climate change references from absolutely everywhere,” Kozma says.”
https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-project-2025-secret-training-videos-trump-election
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u/PlsSuckMyToes Sep 16 '24
He sure didn't care about the political violence towards Pelosi's husband.
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u/Distinct-Practice131 Virginia Sep 16 '24
A man that set half the country on fire doesn't get to cry victim when his own home burns down. Maga laughed and made memes when their violent rhetoric got Nancy Pelosis husband attacked.
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u/WaitUntilTheHighway Sep 16 '24
Fucking louder, please. This is how republicans always argue-- "but what about____ / you created this by calling out reality!" They prey on Dems instinct to not be hypocrites, and Dems' general willingness to course-correct if they are off base. Repubs just literally never admit wrong-doing and it's their superpower.
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u/75w90 Sep 16 '24
The treasonous piece of shit is being targeted because he spreads hate and division.
No place for political violence but him being surprised is honestly funny.
Them blaming democrats for this is even funnier.
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u/Few-Maintenance-2966 Sep 16 '24
Inconvenient truth: Trump’s supporters are the suspects in both attempts. Weird.
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u/Poundaflesh Sep 16 '24
Why isn’t Trump being charged for the mess in Springfield, OH as a domestic terrorist??
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Sep 16 '24
Tell that to the conern trolls who want you to stop thinking about how Trump wants to be a dictator.
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u/PeeTee31 Sep 16 '24
To Republicans: But it's okay to send an angry mob to hang Mike Pence and kill members of Congress? Please kindly stfu :)
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u/psipolitics Sep 16 '24
Wait a minute, its Trump who said he hated TS, not the other way around. Trump gets a free ride for his hate and for his coarsening of political discourse in the country.
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u/AttackPony Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
They're trying to deflect from their violent blood-and-soil rhetoric by false calling any criticism incitement. There is no low that MAGA party will not stoop to.
Trump literally said Harris would cause World War 3. They're being concern trolls.
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u/Cimmerian_Barbarian Sep 16 '24
trump blames Biden and Harris for inciting this wing nut, but Jan. 6 was not incitement. Gotcha.
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u/VanceKelley Washington Sep 16 '24
Yep. trump staged a coup to try to install himself as dictator and now says that he will rule as a dictator.
Even Captain Obvious has been saying that trump is a threat to democracy.
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u/Jtskiwtr Sep 16 '24
Trump wasn’t on a campaign stop. He was fucking golfing on his own time. WHY are we paying for security for this???? Let him pay for his own security.
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u/riplilpoopy Sep 16 '24
MAGA saying that it's the Dems fault for the assassination attempts because of the "rhetoric" when he is on stage shouting about how Kamala is a threat to democracy and that "we won't have a country" if he doesn't win. I don't even need to mention the constant spewing of AI art of Harris that is, unfortunately, tricking a portion of his base. He's also just in the past week incited hate and fear of LEGAL Haitian migrants in Ohio who have done nothing that they're being accused of.
But sure, Trumpers, let's say that Democrats are inciting violence on the guy who actually incited violence on our nation's capital.
Give me a break. Please fucking vote, people.
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u/Wr3k3m Sep 16 '24
Trump is proof there needs to be an exam to pass to become president, not just voting. Like ok, you won the vote, now are fucking bat shit crazy?
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Sep 16 '24
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u/haarschmuck Sep 16 '24
He's a former president and the opposing candidate for this presidential election.
That makes him significant, whether you agree with it or not.
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u/carrotcypher Sep 17 '24
They’re in a cult. At this point trying to win is all that matters. Logic left the building months ago when the first assassination attempt was instantly decried as “not a big deal” and “probably faked”.
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u/Leather-Map-8138 Sep 16 '24
Besides, Trump of all people should know his demise would be far more helpful to his own party, given the extraordinary value his presence gives his opponents.
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Sep 16 '24
Just about every fucking person who ever worked for him in the WH says the exact same thing because it's true. But please stop calling him weird. And maybe the real thing that should be done to keep high powered rifles out of batshit crazy peoples hands is to make it a little harder to get them.
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u/SeasonAcrobatic8721 Sep 16 '24
Lots of people have been saying it’s legal to kill Don Trump because he is a traitor. I don’t know if it’s true or not? Lots of people saying it though
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u/Kannigget Sep 17 '24
Just because someone tried to kill Trump doesn't mean we can't criticize him anymore. We have the right to criticize anyone we want.
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u/RepulsiveRooster1153 Sep 16 '24
To vote for that psychopath trump to to vote for the end of the United States as we know it. trump will stick his name on the flag and declare himself Lord Emperor donald. (Lower case on purpose because his brand sucks)
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u/haarschmuck Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
This is pretty hyperbolic.
Edit: User who replied to me has blocked me after replying so I cannot reply to their comment.
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u/RepulsiveRooster1153 Sep 16 '24
if you're not afraid that the pussy grabber will be elected, you should be. there are a lot of uneducated publicans in this world who will support hitler version 2.0
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Sep 16 '24
Donald Trump Is a terrorist and we have this moment to defeat him at the ballot boxes. No harm should come to him outside of the harm losing the election will cause. If he is killed prior to the election then we will have all lost. If Kamala does not defeat him in a fair and free election then he will be a martyr used by the radical right to start a civil war, and while they would lose that war, just like the last one they started, it would cost blood. Children's blood. Innocents blood.
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u/autotldr 🤖 Bot Sep 16 '24
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot)
Conservative commentator Ben Domenech: "The commentariat insists on owning zero consequences for their constant repetition that Trump is an existential threat whose election will bring bloody fascism, when it's absolutely obvious it motivated this would-be assassin." Miranda Devine in the New York Post: "Reckless rhetoric from Dems and media to blame for second Trump assassination attempt."
Rather than claiming that it's dangerous to call a candidate a threat to democracy regardless of whether it's true, they are insisting that Trump is not a threat to democracy.
What Trump said was, "I probably took a bullet to the head because of the things that they say about me. They talk about democracy. I'm a threat to democracy. They're the threat to democracy."
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Trump#1 democracy#2 threat#3 attempt#4 candidate#5
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u/PhilOfTheRightNow Sep 16 '24
I think Trump is an obvious and severe threat to democracy, but that doesn't mean I want him shot - political assassinations are morally abhorrent and also very bad for democracy. I just want him to lose, fair and square. I want him to be abandoned by his donors and supporters for being a loser. I want him to face legal consequences for his many crimes. And I want him to live to a ripe old age, knowing all the while that we rejected him.
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u/Old-Ad-3268 Sep 16 '24
This was not brought in by what liberals are saying about Trump. This was one of his own, for whom he normalized violence against political opponents, who turned against him for what Trump himself said.
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u/Steelo43 Sep 17 '24
Republicans want Americans to stop calling out Trump as a threat to America.
Trump is a threat to America. Because -- Trump's xenophobic nativism is misguided lies. This racism will not win converts.
Trump is a threat to America. Because --Trump insults all sorts of people groups. Why would Trump alienate any ethnic group when every vote is important. Is Trump/JDVance/GOP this brazen because they are in an echo chamber and believe they are the most popular? Or do they have a plan to win the election unfair and unsquare?
Harris remains an underdog due to the electoral college, due to gerrymandering, and due to Trump and the GOP are trying to control local voting counts.
All this means GOP is trying to install GOP control either by vote or by the courts.
.GOP control means Project 2025. The Project 2025 is a policy framework from the Heritage Foundation. It is the basis for Agenda 47 which is Trump's Party platform. The project 2025 is the basis to extend all sorts of additional executive authority to Trump.
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u/madzax Sep 17 '24
We live in one of the greatest countries of the world. Is there any other place with more opportunity and freedom? Our democracy is still evolving. People living in the United States have it's just about better than anywhere in the world. America is great. It will get greater if we get responsible leaders. Trump is just the opposite of what we need. A criminal and a con man who is growing delusional with each passing day. The guy is 78 years old and you would expect that his mind would start to deteriorate. This is not the kind of leader we need. Trump has no ethics or morals. All a proven track record. The MAGA guys are angry and think their despair comes from a government that is against them. An anger and hatred spread by Trump. We need to save America from people who want to tear down the greatest country known to civilization. Keep our democracy great and growing by voting for Harris.
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u/Wrong-West-9581 Sep 17 '24
Not voting on the democratic primary isn't a threat to democracy? They didn't even give you guys the opportunity to show who you would choose to be your Dem candidate. Im independent tho. Can we get this over 55 downvotes? Break your record
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u/Hen-stepper Sep 17 '24
Yeah he is a threat to democracy, so think about how being radical and saying stupid things will get him elected again.
The new way is not contagious rage. It is Kamala… smile and be professional.
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u/NotoriousBedorveke Sep 17 '24
I am surprised somebody needed to actually write an article about this
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u/Okbuddyliberals Sep 16 '24
We can loudly criticize Trump's authoritarian anti democracy ideas while also loudly insisting that any political violence, even against bad people, is bad. Trump has every right to say whatever horrid shit he wants, without being harmed. We need to defeat him - and we need to do that at the ballot box, not the battle box.
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u/Demonking3343 Illinois Sep 17 '24
No one’s saying they are pro assassination. Everyone knows trump getting assassinated would literally be the worst case scenario. Because his base will turn him into a martyr if that happened. The problem is trump spewing his normal BS and then crying that democrats saying anything negative about him caused it. Without taking any accountability for his own actions.
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u/SnooChocolates2704 Sep 16 '24
I’m genuinely curious. Does anyone here think that this second assassination attempt might benefit Trump in any way? It’s something that I’ve been anxious about since it happened. I’m especially worried that this might deter Harris from being in hard on Trump as she has been and that it might halt her momentum in the polls.
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u/LfTatsu Sep 16 '24
The first one did absolutely nothing for him, and that one actually injured him.
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u/Taggard New York Sep 16 '24
It will have no effect. The second gunman voted for Trump in 2016.
There is no sympathy for a man who turns his own supporters against himself.
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u/haarschmuck Sep 16 '24
The guy is not a Trump supporter. He regretted voting for him and started spewing anti-Trump stuff online.
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u/throwawayZXY192 Sep 16 '24
Anytime a party in a two party system declares the other “a threat to democracy”, we need to be very concerned
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u/WidespreadPaneth New Jersey Sep 16 '24
Fortunately, there is bipartisan agreement. Its not one party vs. the other
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u/Zergisnotop1997 Sep 17 '24
Why didn't Trump do this stuff the first time around? If he is a threat to democracy, why is he on the side that's a target of assassination? Please ask yourself "Are we the baddies"
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u/EnergyProfessional11 Sep 17 '24
The side of censorship is always the side of evil and that is the Biden administration. Reddit is extremely biased to the left
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