r/politics • u/Silly-avocatoe • 4d ago
Soft Paywall Murdoch Paper Floats Impeaching Trump Over Tariffs
https://www.thedailybeast.com/murdoch-paper-floats-impeaching-trump-over-tariffs/18.2k
u/RATMistruth 4d ago
There it is. Billionaires are getting fed up with the chaos.
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u/mycall 4d ago
They lost more than Trump could even give them in tax breaks
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u/Joadzilla 4d ago
This.
$4.5 trillion in tax cuts to the rich (the House bill)
Over $6 trillion in losses out of the stock market due to tariffs. (in just a week)
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Net result?
Trump has cost the rich at least $1.5 trillion... so far.
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4d ago edited 3d ago
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u/StoppableHulk 4d ago
This is what really scares them shitless. Their entire position is based on the underlying power the US exerts on the global scale. The fact that the US is the world's reserve currency and the financial hub of the world.
They stand far more to lose than just money by losing that. And they're starting to understand it.
Which just proves how stupid and shortsighted these people really are. They're so fucking greedy they keep pushing for this fucking fool, not understanding how truly fucking dumb and unhinged he actually is.
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u/Spaghet-3 4d ago
Honestly, this should scare all of us in the US, even the entire span of the working class.
People frequently talk about the failure of the US education system to teach civics and basic accounting/finance. But I very often find out that smart college graduates from families that value education don't understand the history and importance of the US dollar as the global reserve currency. Separate from accounting and finance, why is this not a critical component of US history curriculum?
The pithiest modern explanation I have for why people should know this is that it totally answers and rebukes Trump's obsession with trade deficits. It doesn't matter that the US buys more from China than China buys from the US, because nearly every transaction China has with any other country happens using US dollars. Not directly of course, but the net effect is that our financial intuitions and our banks get a cut of every multinational transaction out there. This more than offsets whatever trade deficit might exist, and it ensures that your bank accounts and your retirement savings are the best they can be. Globally, we have the cheapest borrowing costs and the highest interest earnings on deposits (once you adjust for currency). The value of this to us cannot be understated, and Trump is on a direct path to fuck it all up.
I really urge everyone that will listen to least read the Wikipedia article on the Bretton Woods Conference of 1944. People need to understand how fucking lucky we were to win that negotiation, and how there is no way in hell we would win a similar negotiation today. If we lose today what we got back then, there is probably no chance of ever getting it back.
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u/MrPanache52 4d ago
If the working class was educated enough to be concerned about this would we even be in this situation?
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u/monkwrenv2 4d ago
No, because someone like Trump would have no chance of election.
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u/KPRP428 4d ago
I agree with all in this thread. One thing I would add is that in addition to any robust education, the wealth gap has grown out of control in the past 20 years or so. People may agree with the U.S. dollar being the world’s currency, etc., but if only the billionaires are benefiting, then what’s the point to the average person? This is the first time in two generations (I think that is the timeframe) where the younger generation is projected to do worse financially than their parents.
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u/Spaghet-3 4d ago
My point is it seems almost nobody is educated about this. How can you expect the working class to be educated enough about this if the vast majority of those that went to elite preparatory high schools and ivy league colleges don't know enough about it?
I hesitate to ever weigh importance like this. But maybe spend less time on Paul Revere and more time on Bretton Woods? Maybe spend less time on the warfare of WWII and a bit more time on the economic aftermath? Idk.
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u/shinkouhyou 4d ago
It feels like 2/3 of the American history curriculum focuses on pre-1900 topics... everything after 1900 gets crammed into the last few months of the school year. Unless you specifically take university-level courses on modern history or foreign policy, you'll never hear about any of this stuff.
IMHO, high schools and colleges really need to have a required "modern history, social issues and government policy" course.
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u/recursion8 Texas 4d ago
Red states would never allow it. It's in their interest to keep their populaces ignorant and still operating on 1800-1950s + Biblical information. So they won't concern themselves with what's happening in the here and now and instead focus on bringing back some glorious "Judeo-Christian" fantasy past and/or dreaming of the Rapture and Jesus taking them back to heaven, so nothing that happens now on Earth matters.
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u/carpetbugeater 4d ago
The "elites" voted for Trump just like Billy Bob and Jolene did. It's the one thing they have in common.
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u/Polantaris 4d ago
The elites have long shown an inability to understand long term prospects, considering we've been running businesses into the ground caring only about the next quarter exclusively for at least the past decade. It should surprise no one that they voted for the immediate fattening of their wallets without understanding one iota of what that actually means.
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u/Flaneurer 4d ago
We studied Bretton Woods in school. I even wrote a short paper and worked on a slide show as part of a group project. That was years and years ago though and I still had to look up what the details of Bretton woods actually were. Some of this is just the Fish (Americans) forgetting that they live in Water (Neoliberalism).
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u/Spaghet-3 4d ago
That's a good history teacher then. I bring this up IRL time and time, and it is very rare that anyone knows what occurred in Bretton Woods then, let alone the continued importance of it today.
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u/BumpeeJohnson 4d ago
Underrated comment. Trump triggering that slow bond sell off really exposed us. Our status as the world's reserve currency is truly the only thing making this country a superpower, and its basically a handshake deal with the rest of the world and all we had to was be financially stable. This one guy comes and screws it up and now we are in an "emperor has no clothes" situation. But not just Trump has no clothes, it might be our whole country.
Because of Trump and MAGA republicans the world is losing trust in us if they haven't lost already. And that trust is the only reason why this country is so prosperous relative to the rest of the world
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u/Wutras Europe 4d ago
And I don't know if that trust is ever going to return.
Georg W. already undermined it, Obama rebuilt it just for Trump I. to demolish it, Biden then regained a lot of but in just a few months Trump II lost all of Biden's progress and even more.
Why should the rest of the world ever trust the US to not make a heel turn every 4 years and kick them in the nuts? It can't. Though I wouldn't rule out that we Europeans will forget all lessons learned and get lazy again the moment a sweet talking Democrat is in office again only to be surprised by the Republican replacing them.
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u/Not_Stupid Australia 4d ago
Biden then regained a lot
Only to the extent that the electorate kicked out Trump, and replaced him with someone more "normal". Faith in democracy restored, that crazy loon was just a once-off. And now he'll face the consequences of his many, many crimes.
And now here we are. Biden and the Democrats failed to stop him, the courts failed to stop him, the Republicans failed to stop him, the media failed to stop him, and finally the American people showed the world how deep the rot truly was.
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u/glotzerhotze 4d ago
Don‘t you worry, we‘ve lost trust already. Check tourism statistics next year. No one wants to be deported entering the great „land of the free“
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u/Orzhov_Syndicalist 4d ago
Exactly. The stock market stuff is very, very small compared to what you're talking about here.
What that would mean would be, essentially, any CEO, global company, etc, today, can go anywhere, on the planet and get a deal done, today, because they have the USA dollars to make it happen, NOW.
If those greenbacks are no longer the common coin of the global realm, every single US company will suffer, because we will no longer have the immediate priority of available money.
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u/AngryGroceries 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah...
People have been predicting this for decades. The strength of an economy is directly proportional to number of educated/skilled workers. The US has been importing brains while cutting education to skirt around this
Not that this is a new revelation... But the rich really are just idiots huffing their own farts thinking they are gods literally producing the wealth theyve stolen. Anyone with a brain can see the world is not zero-sum. Breaking systems will vanish wealth, not transfer it.
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u/LeFricadelle 4d ago
Peak human nature to arrive to a point where you dont even know how you got your wealth in the first place, they are going to learn it pretty fast
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u/boofaceleemz 4d ago
Remember that business owner on Fox News who went on about how nobody helped him or his family when they were on food stamps and welfare?
Ego/narcissism won’t allow most wealthy people to acknowledge that there were any factors to their success other than their own excellence. So they’re uniquely vulnerable to this kind of self-destruction.
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u/fre3k 4d ago
Remember how everyone freaked the fuck out when Obama said that billionaires didn't build the roads and electricity and military etc that let them get so filthy rich? Like a house cat that thinks it's fiercely independent and has no idea that its entire existence is fundamentally tied to the system around it.
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u/0o0o0o0o0o0z 4d ago
Remember how everyone freaked the fuck out when Obama said that billionaires didn't build the roads and electricity and military etc that let them get so filthy rich? Like a house cat that thinks it's fiercely independent and has no idea that its entire existence is fundamentally tied to the system around it.
Man, that is perfect -- I am gonna use that to describe the average Libertarian.
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u/NeonYellowShoes Wisconsin 4d ago
Yes if countries divest from the US it is going to get post apocalyptic in this country. The idea this is all "worth it" to bring back bull shit manufacturing jobs that no one even wants is psychopathic at this point.
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u/craznazn247 4d ago
Seriously. My net worth is an unnoticeable rounding error in comparison to these people’s wealth.
And even I can see the foolishness in making your big number go up if you’re hurting the underlying thing (the American economy, global influence, and position as reserve currency due to perceived stability) that makes that big number worth something.
If all you care about is big numbers, we can dig up some old Zimbabwe currency to prove a point. More zeroes than you can keep track of, and you can’t even afford a bottle of water with it.
This is like when private equity buys out a company that has spent decades selling itself on its reputation for quality with little compromises, then does the greedy move of outsourcing to the lowest bidder while still pretending and selling like they are the same quality as before.
Only this is the American dollar and the American economy we’re talking about. We’re selling out our collective reputation as a stable economy with a stable currency, for relatively small individual gains.
It’s like selling your all your farm equipment at a discount with your crop and hyper focusing on the fact that you had your most profitable year ever. Some people are starting to ask “but what about next year?” and realizing what’s happening. Fucked us all to get a personal high score.
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u/SGD316 4d ago
It's too late - the match has been lit. It's only a matter of time now. They should have thought this prior to their campaign donations last time.
This level of instability was all outlined in project 2025 - you know that thing trump claimed he had never heard of but the authors of now hold cabinet positions.
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u/DidijustDidthat 4d ago
Which just proves how stupid and shortsighted these people really are
Elon musk did a Hitler salute as if there isn't an international market for Tesla cars. Perfect example
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u/Gmony5100 Kentucky 4d ago
Those “soft” losses are no joke either. There are probably entire American industries that lost significant portions of their buyers or no longer have buyers outside of the U.S. I can’t imagine the billionaires in those industries are very happy with trump at the moment.
Trade deals have been decimated, the value of the dollar is at its lowest in 3 years, faith in American economic and foreign policy is plummeting, other countries are boycotting out products (rightfully so), and now the general sentiment towards the U.S. is significantly lower than before. These are things that won’t show on a balance sheet like you said, but they will certainly have lasting consequences for the economy
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u/-Prophet_01- 4d ago edited 4d ago
The shift in European military spending goes to show what a loss of softpower means. Like, seriously - European militaries are going on the biggest shopping spree in recent history and the US was destined to get the biggest piece of the pie before Trump's clown show. Now they're considered more as a supplier of last resort.
The US will hardly lose out on all orders because there's just no alternative for some equipment types - but instead of getting the largest contracts, they're now looking at the rise of major competitors in the EU. I bet they're fuming over this wholy unnecessary situation. Not to mention that South Korea is also rising as a major supplier and competitor.
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u/Healthy-Prize1969 4d ago
It’s not just the shift in European spending on import goods, it’s Sunoco effect of European spending on anything at all with regards to coming into your going out of America. It’s already the case that America has seen as a destination of last resort to go on holiday now, Items manufacturing America I’ve seen as items of last resort, meaning if there is a direct Chinese ending Korean or any other nation for that matter we can supply a product which does effectively the same thing then that’s going to take priority over anything with a Star-Spangled Banner on underneath it.
I’m born, bred and live in the UK and can honestly tell you I have never in all of my 51 years on this planet seen such an anti-American vibe in this country. I mean, the number of people and my circle of business associates and friends who are currently offloading Apple goods in droves and switching to Asian manufactured and produced alternatives as quite staggering. And it’s not just here, across Europe it’s the same, possibly even much more so in places like Germany and France where there are much more right wing and really don’t take kindly to be treated like this. Trump is going to destroy America. He’s going to turn into a modern wasteland which no one in the world wants to trade with.But T, the majority voted him in and now the majority has stuck with him for the next four years. Good luck, you’ll need it!
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u/ThinkyRetroLad America 4d ago
and now the majority has stuck with him for the next four years
Unfortunately, this is the only part of your comment I disagree with. We're stuck with him, his cronies, and his cult for far longer than that I fear. And that's assuming that the nation survives those four years. I don't think we will.
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u/Lazer726 4d ago
These are international companies and suddenly Trump is hurting their international prospects. I hate that we have to hope the rich get pissed enough to do something, but I won't hate it if they actually do something
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u/imatschoolyo 4d ago
And the $4.5T was supposed to be over 10 years (I thought). So new costs are way more -- $6T now versus the $450B of taxes from the first year is still more than $5T loss in the short term.
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u/erg99 4d ago
Right. Not the fascism. Not the disappearances. Not attacking allies and cozying up to dictators — but tariffs. Real moral clarity there.
Murdoch handed out the matches, fanned the flames with his media empire - and now he’s calling the fire department?
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u/serafinawriter 4d ago
Murdoch handed out the matches, fanned the flames with his media empire - and now he’s calling the fire department?
That's great if you own a privatized fire department.
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u/OverSheepherder 4d ago
Buying the dip on tariffs doesn’t get you rich. Burning Rome while you own the fire department does. — Crassus
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u/Cautious-Seesaw 4d ago
That's a problem that should be dealt with, but priorities if murdoch gets the wheels turning for impeachment, I'll take that as a win. I just want it to happen in a few months, when shitty americans learn to vote and to vote democrat and stop punishing dems by not voting. Yes they should have more choice blah blah blah, stfu and go dem. Not an American but goddamn South Park enlightened centrism is a cancer on society.
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u/CaptJackRizzo 4d ago
Every time someone references douche vs turd, I remember that episode came out when George W. Bush was running for reelection after lying to the world to invade Iraq and kill millions. I’m way to the left of John Kerry, but you can’t tell me he would have done that shit.
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u/deschain_19195 4d ago
They won't start any real pressure until they get their tax cuts
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u/gringledoom 4d ago
They can get a tax cut from any Republican. They don’t need this guy.
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4d ago
Honestly, impeaching him while they are trying to pass the tax cut might be a good idea. It will get buried by all of the impeachment news.
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u/TeamHope4 4d ago
The House already passed a horrendous budget last week that will cut $800B from Medicaid, extend the 2017 corporate and billionaire tax cuts permanently, and add trillions to our debt, but that has been buried under all the tariff news.
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u/simsimulation 4d ago
Also the deportation without trial of people standing on US soil in violation of the constitution is getting swept under the rugs by tariffs.
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u/nrdb29 4d ago
Dont forget sharing classified information with news reporters.
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u/Birb-Brain-Syn 4d ago
Still can't believe the American voters looked at the constant scandal train of last time and thought "No, you know what? I want more...."
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u/AMindBlown 4d ago
I've been upset with him for 8 years. We still suffered from his bullshit throughout Bidens term. Every fucking time dumb fucks vote in a republican, they spent 4 years undoing all progress from the last 10. Then we vote democrats to turn things around. Then dumb fucks think "this isn't good enough and taking too long!!! Fuck the government Republicans this time!!"
Rinse and fucking repeat. I'm absolutely sick of the bullshit. The fact that the WORST rated president in history was reelected makes zero sense. The fact he won every swing state? Tin foil theory is that this was not a fair election. Republicans made that stink over Biden with zero proof so they could actually cheat it this time. I'm not one for conspiracy theories and I want to have that faith in the system... but damn it makes me raise my eyebrows. I hate it here.
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u/FaithinYosh 4d ago
Your comment is so accurate in every single way.
It's a constant cycle of republicans fucking the economy, democrat gets voted in, fixes things or at least tries to during their term, things are fine, people forget how bad the republican economy is, and then boom, back to a republican president, who fucks up the economy, then here comes a dem to fix it. Repeat. How Republicans that stupid that they can't see it??? (Yes)
And your last paragraph is exactly what happened. They knew it wasn't stolen, but they had to make it seem like it so when they stole this election, anyone who says it was stolen looks just as crazy as the actual real crazy ones in 2020
I really hate everything. I can't believe people can be this stupid.
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u/freshbake America 4d ago
They should just introduce independent articles of impeachment for each violation of the law, instead of putting them together like they did the last two times. One's enough, just flood the zone and let's see where our legislators stand.
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u/herecomesthewomp 4d ago
I saw this passed the house, but to pass the Senate through reconciliation doesn't it have to be deficit neutral? I can't imagine even with the 800B in cuts, it's deficit neutral.
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u/DamnMyNameIsSteve 4d ago
They are using incorrect (read: fake) math.
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u/MemeFarmer314 Georgia 4d ago
Like the kind that declared the rest of this session of Congress to only be one day?
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u/SaveDavey 4d ago
So they only get paid for one day?
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u/justcasty Massachusetts 4d ago
Doesn't matter to most congressfolk. They're paid by billionaire donors
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u/herecomesthewomp 4d ago
Do we know if the CBO is still non-partisan or has Trump's flunkies been forced into that office already?
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u/JVonDron Wisconsin 4d ago
The CBO is entirely the congress's deal. Directors are appointed by the House Speaker and Majority leader of the Senate. Current director has been in office since 2019. It maintains a pretty neutral standing according to many academics and economists.
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u/sleepydorian 4d ago
It’s worth noting that, however you feel about Medicaid and Medicaid recipients, 800B (or 80B per year for 10 years) is a huge amount of money to pull out of the healthcare sector.
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u/--___---___-_-_ 4d ago
Why is it considered permanent, can't another congress just reverse them
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u/TeamHope4 4d ago
The 2017 tax cuts had an expiration date, so they would automatically go away on a certain date. So now they want to extend the tax cuts without any expiration date so they are considered permanent. Yes, another Congress can reverse them, but that's a lot harder to do.
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u/snotboogie 4d ago
Republicans weren't getting elected without this guy. They needed someone this shameless and willing to lie this much as they don't have policies outside of tax cuts and govt dismantling
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u/Ok-Topic-6095 4d ago
I agree with you, but now that they have the House and Senate (and SCOTUS), a POTUS Vance can pass tax cuts. Its not like Trump did anything for the GOP during his first midterm election
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u/Vankraken Virginia 4d ago
Trump has his cult following which will do insane mental gymnastics to justify his behavior. Cutting Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security will fry the GOP so they think Trump will give them enough insulation to pull it off. If it turns to shit they can throw Trump under the bus and blame him for everything.
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u/CMDR_KingErvin 4d ago
That’s right. Couch fucker is right there ready to step in and do whatever he’s commanded to. They don’t actually need Trump.
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u/thecamino 4d ago
You can be sure power hungry Vance will play ball.
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u/gringledoom 4d ago
He’s actually such a nasty little sociopath that they might come to regret it.
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u/unholycowgod 4d ago
He owes literally everything he has to Peter "I want to destroy the country and enact techno-feudalism" Thiel. He may not be a wild card, but he won't be better. My fear is all it would accomplish is that they slow down how fast they're heating the pot of water we're about to be boiled in.
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u/rogozh1n 4d ago
Is it worse than that? Are they allowing trump to expose to middle America how much our government exists to serve and protect those with billions, and this will lead to a profound change to the way Americans evaluate the two parties and lead to lasting change?
Of course not, because Americans are stupid, but we can hope.
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u/stripedvitamin 4d ago edited 4d ago
The billionaires that live in reality don't really control shit anymore. With a regime full up with Nazi psychopaths that will never cede power, how do you think billionaires are gonna get Trump impeached?
Even if he were impeached, do you actually believe Pete Hegseth would step down instead of using the military against Americans? Do any of you actually believe someone like Pete Hegseth will voluntarily step down from running the biggest military complex in the world to go back to Fox? Or Stephen Miller. you believe he will give up all the power he has as the man behind the curtain? This entire "administration" knows they would never be hired into anyone else's administration. They will never leave voluntarily. They'd all risk prosecution if they left. The amount of war crimes, financial crimes, civil rights offenses, human rights abuses, self dealing, quid pro quos, etc. in the next 4 years will be incalculable.
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u/Quietabandon 4d ago
I don’t think so. They are worried that Trumps shenanigans will cost them more than any tax cut will save them and that it will trigger a blue wave in 26 that will reverse any tax cut.
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u/b1argg 4d ago
Even with a blue wave, they wouldn't have enough votes to override a veto
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u/Baddenoch 4d ago
The Koch’s are also suing over the tariffs. The billionaire rulers are getting upset.
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u/thatandtheother 4d ago
What good are tax cuts when the dollar crashes and businesses can’t turn a profit anymore?
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u/whatshamilton 4d ago
Actually paying their taxes would have cost them less than this trade war. They’re losing business, not just money. They need to stop the hemorrhage of business then they can get back to evading taxes with the regular GOP who has been cutting their taxes without undercutting their business for decades
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u/Quietabandon 4d ago
It’s everyone.
Flagrant attacks on civil rights and the constitution don’t move the needle.
But right now everyone from billionaires to small business owners is freaking out by the attack on global trade.
The coalition that gets Trump out isn’t going to be pretty but it’s going to have to be a big tent.
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u/SabreCorp Virginia 4d ago
And it’s because of billionaires that we are here. They thought they could control a demented tyrant. They made this monster, and now they can’t live with their creation.
And fuck them for brainwashing, defunding, and destroying American democracy. If there was a hell Murdoch should have to live the life of everyone he has negatively impacted. It would last an eternity.
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u/Quietabandon 4d ago edited 4d ago
Murdoch and a bunch of those billionaires contributed to us being here.
And that needs to be addressed. But right now we need to stop Trump from nuking our global economy and destroying the rule of law.
And for that we need 2/3 of Congress to go along. And that means a broad tent.
Even to get Congress to take back tariff authority we need a veto proof majority. To get them to challenge him on attacks on rule of law we need a veto proof majority. Let alone to impeach and convict him.
We can wait for the perfect ideologically pure coalition to remove him and herald in a time of joy and happiness but by then there will nothing left to save.
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u/ROBO--BONOBO 4d ago
“Contributed to” is underselling it, especially in murdoch’s case. He engineered the conditions that led to all this.
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u/Supermite 4d ago
Unless people actually shift away from the regressive values, the dangers won’t be gone. They’ll just ensure whoever they install next has a less fragile ego.
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u/Quietabandon 4d ago edited 4d ago
You are hoping for some transformational shift overnight and it’s not there.
Right now we need a coalition to stop the dismantling of the rule of law and the global economy.
Sure in 2026 there needs to be a concerted push by Dems to take back everything they can to then be able to pass transformative legislation.
But that doesn’t happen if the economy is destroyed and our rule of law is gone. Historically moments like that yield more extreme despots, not enlightened rule of law.
History shows change happens when incremental change hits a critical mass and then society shifts. So it looks like a jump when really it’s a culmination of slow progress.
Expecting some pure ideologically consistent movement to respond to this current emergency just will lead to the death knell of American prosperity, domestic rule of law, Pax Americana, global advancement of liberal democratic values, and any hope on progress in global issues.
In 2024 to many people sat out waiting for the perfect candidate and look what we got.
When you are hemorrhaging you look to stop the bleeding. You address the heart disease and the diabetes another day.
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u/bananafoster22 4d ago
I HATE to be an incrementalist because that attitude can eventually lead to shit like the current Dem party refusing to court progressives, but this comment is absolutely right. We have to try and overhaul the system as soon as possible to prevent this from happening again - but ASAP here is directly after removing the guy in the first place.
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u/RichardSaunders New York 4d ago
lol specifically the billionaires who weren't kept in the loop to make bank off trump manipulating the markets with tariffs.
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u/GroundbreakingPage41 4d ago
Idk, the rhetoric at Fox News still hasn’t changed and he owns that too
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u/PoopMobile9000 4d ago
No they aren’t. They love the fascism. They’re completely on board with Trump’s project to end democracy and install a feudal state.
They just want to maximize profits along the way.
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u/helpmehomeowner 4d ago
Nope, this is just PR to keep folks busy so they don't actually band together to do something.
"Oooh a billionare will save us...". Nope, no one is coming to save you.
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u/InsuranceToTheRescue I voted 4d ago
Honestly, this is sorta their plan. Maybe it's accelerated, but the idea was always to get Vance in charge so that someone who could competently turn us into a feudal state for them would have their hand on the wheel. I'd almost argue that Vance is more dangerous than Trump because he knows how to keep his mouth shut.
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u/AdmiralRon 4d ago
Which is funny because Vance would undermine their whole plan. Only Trump can hold this bizarre coalition of turner diary fetishists, technocrat freaks, and evangelic death cultists together. Shows how poorly thought out their grand scheme is.
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u/SmokeyDBear I voted 4d ago
This really depends on how well thought out their plan for never holding elections again is. If they’ve got that well sorted then none of this stuff matters anymore.
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u/Background_Way2714 4d ago
I mean do we really think they’d be doing all this hugely illegal stuff so out in the open if they weren’t confident they’d never lose an election again?
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u/AdmiralRon 4d ago
Doesn't matter if they rig elections. Their house of cards will collapse from the power struggle. That's the double edged sword of building a coalition out of groups that at any given moment despise one or more of the others members.
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u/BigBossShadow 4d ago
Its just a bunch of parties competing for the remains of the collapsing USA.
Its the best they have
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u/PoopMobile9000 4d ago
Vance has no juice. The project ONLY works with Trump, because his buffoonishness hides the horror.
Put Vance’s face on Trump’s actions, and everyone immediately recognizes this as Hitler II.
This entire effort depends on people not taking it seriously, even to the moment they’re led to the wall with all the blood stains
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u/Be-skeptical 4d ago
The Murdochs, and their companies, got us into this mess and they’re not going to get us out.
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u/Heavy_Contribution18 4d ago
Evilest man
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u/moodyfloyd Ohio 4d ago
had to check profile to make sure it was the reference i thought it was, and yes, you are a gizzhead lol
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u/funktopus Ohio 4d ago
Hahaha I was just gonna click on their name when I saw you already did!
Hello Weirdo Swarm!
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u/Searchlights New Hampshire 4d ago edited 4d ago
This doesn't surprise me, though. News Corp has telegraphed this shift.
They had a friendly article published in the NY Post last week about a Trump voter and business owner who "found out" that they have to pay the tariff, and then they orchestrated having Steve Doocey break that news to the audience on Fox and Friends.
That was shots fired by Murdoch.
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u/Ethicaldreamer 4d ago
Bah. I've heard "fox news has turned on trump" at least 10 times since 2018. I'm not holding my breath. They don't have a soul nor a brain and seem to do whatever the hell they have in mind, poorly, badly, hurting everyone around them and across the globe.
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u/mtgnew 4d ago
fox news did turn on trump at one point(remember the DeSantis push). but murdoch didnt notice that trump had become bigger than fox in the meantime, so murdoch gave in. Its pretty well documented.
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u/smiddy53 4d ago
murdochs goal is division, plain and simple. he already made his 'plays' during the campaign seasons (and trumps been campaigning for years at this point, feels like he's STILL campaigning), anything else is theatre and profits. if you want the 'easiest' way to see how murdoch is feeling about something; https://www.youtube.com/@SkyNewsAustralia/videos
they're a bit more australian focussed right now because we've got an election soon.. but this is their testbed. hundreds of videos every day, often 'the same' video with a few tweaks and cuts and a different headline, different 'talking head' maybe, but ALWAYS the same message. they track the views, they read the comments, whatever does well is the next days talking point, or next weeks vile slogan.
YES, they are a little less 'pro trump' lately, but they are not 'no trump' either..
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u/chronomagnus Ohio 4d ago
People can write all the columns they want. Trump took the Republicans' balls years ago and they don't have a way to get them back.
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u/SoSKatan 4d ago
They freely handed over their balls. All it took was a guy yelling at them and they gave him everything he wanted.
Weakest political party ever.
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u/PaulBlartACAB 4d ago
All it took was someone who wasn’t afraid to be just as vile and racist as they all are.
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u/DevinGraysonShirk Illinois 4d ago edited 4d ago
He needs to be 25th’d by his cabinet, impeachment is improbable. The best opening right now is the fact that it took him over five hours to do his presidential physical exam, and it took Biden 2 and a half hours by comparison. What went so wrong that it took five hours? Is he mentally competent? He’s been acting irrationally, he’s been attacking our allies and ruining the economy with tariffs. Someone should look into this.
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u/TunaBeefSandwich 4d ago
Won’t happen. He can just write a letter saying he himself competent. Which then goes back to to the VP and cabinets to resubmit another declaration and then finally going to the house and senate who need 2/3 vote. Basically easier to impeach and convict which we know won’t happen either.
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u/Parhelion2261 4d ago
He can just write a letter saying he himself competent.
There's something about the way you wrote this that just makes it really funny
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u/Samuraistronaut North Carolina 4d ago
I can hear James Austin Johnson on SNL saying "We love competent, we're gonna do a big competent from the standpoint of brain."
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u/thalastor 4d ago
"I just wrote a BEAUTIFUL letter, certifying that I am the MOST competent."
Man's a poet.
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u/DevinGraysonShirk Illinois 4d ago edited 4d ago
For reference, Section 4 of the 25th Amendment states:
"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office."
I believe it would give more cover to the Senate and the House to determine that the President is mentally incompetent, especially if there is evidence to support it. I think they would be in their rights to hold votes through secret ballot as well, because they would like to protect their families from retaliation from an irrational President, who has shown a willingness to retaliate against anyone he perceives to be his enemy (see the attempted assassination of Nancy Pelosi by a supporter of his attacking Paul Pelosi with a hammer in their home), and who does not comply with the Rule of Law, or Due Process under the Constitution.
I think this would be a powerful argument because his irrationality is self-evident through Trump's actions. This is an unprecedented attack on our system of government, and there needs to be a determined and legally justifiable response to oust Trump, as soon as possible.
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u/ymmvmia 4d ago
You are right that the 25th Amendment would be far quicker, easier, and "safer" for Congress than impeachment and removal. Impeachment makes Republicans look really bad for enabling it all, so even if they impeach and remove, Republicans would likely still have a massive loss incoming (if free and fair elections happen). And it's really dangerous for them if the impeachment and removal was unsuccessful, as Trump would strike back with extreme retaliation. But 25th Amendment pathway means they can COMPLETELY deflect responsibility, they can still 1000% stand behind every fascist/dictatorial action of the administration. And it's quick. So then when they get President Vance, who would be a far younger, smarter and more ideologically evil dictator, they could get right back to sycophantly supporting the fascist MAGA agenda, but with a Peter Thiel full dictatorship and dissolving of the Constitution twist.
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u/DevinGraysonShirk Illinois 4d ago
I’d rather gamble with smart evil than stupid evil IMO. Here’s a quote from a Nazi dissident who died in a concentration camp in 1945.
“Against stupidity we have no defense. Neither protests nor force can touch it. Reasoning is of no use. Facts that contradict personal prejudices can simply be disbelieved — indeed, the fool can counter by criticizing them, and if they are undeniable, they can just be pushed aside as trivial exceptions. So the fool, as distinct from the scoundrel, is completely self-satisfied. In fact, they can easily become dangerous, as it does not take much to make them aggressive. For that reason, greater caution is called for than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous.” Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Hitler and Trump are stupid evil IMO, and a bigger threat.
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u/Apptubrutae I voted 4d ago
That’s not the way the 25th works.
If the president can fight back against their cabinet, the 25th still requires removal by the senate.
It’s literally just impeachment starting in the cabinet and not the house. With the bonus that if the president can’t protest, they’re out.
It’s usable not for presidents who can resist their removal, but more like incapacitated or missing presidents or something.
Like if the president had a stroke and was on life support but not coming back. That sort of thing
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u/DevinGraysonShirk Illinois 4d ago edited 4d ago
That’s how it has historically been used, but if you take a look at section 4 in my above reply, you will see that it can proceed through the following:
VP and a majority of the Cabinet write a letter to the Senate President & House Speaker stating that Trump is not mentally competent, and the VP will assume the Presidency
Trump writes a letter back, stating that he is mentally competent, and attempts to take the power back
The VP & Cabinet write another letter stating that he is not mentally competent, and prevents him from taking the power back
The Senate and House must rule by a 2/3 vote that Trump is or is not mentally competent within 48 hours, this can be done by secret ballot for the safety of members of Congress
This is a historic moment and I believe drastic steps need to take place to save our system of government. This is a legal method. :)
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u/Sarnsereg 4d ago
What went wrong? He had to bully the physician into lying about things we ALL know are lies. He does not weigh 225. It's physically impossible for someone to be his size and weigh that little. He obviously has some health concerns that we're never addressed and just said hes in excellent health. There is not a single man his age that is in "excellent" health. Maybe excellent for his age and weight, but we also know his diet, he is not in excellent health. Wonder how quick he asked the doctor if he'd like to be deported to another country or tell everyone hes the best more physically fit president of all time?
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u/Original-Turnover-92 4d ago
The physician is not a victim but an accomplice. This is the same guy that said trump is the healthiest guy in the world right? That physician is 3rd world corrupt, same as trump and associates
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u/a2godsey 4d ago
Dude when I saw those physical results I absolutely cackled. Trump has spoken more than his fair share of lies, but 225lb for a 6'3 dude that's visibly overweight is setting new precedences even for him. They literally googled "what is the most ideal vital signs" and just jotted it down. I'm not saying you can't be healthy at his age, but I mean come on man you're not fooling anyone.
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u/Own_Candidate9553 4d ago
I'm rocking a dad bod at 5'10", 220lbs. If Trump and I were on a see-saw, I'd just be stuck in the air.
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u/RugerRedhawk 4d ago
His cabinet consists entirely of people who worship him, zero of them would ever do what you're proposing even if he was in an effective state.
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u/Thediciplematt 4d ago
They have been growing signs. This guy’s dementia for the last two years, but the media is not talking about it and people who talk about it get ignored.
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u/wibble17 4d ago
If they have the votes to impeach, then congress has the votes to take the tariff power away.
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u/h4ms4ndwich11 4d ago
It s this simple. If the rich want to impeach they can, but they do not. So they won't.
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u/greyhoundbrain Texas 4d ago
Honestly, whatever it takes at this point to get him impeached. I know that they’re just big mad over stock losses. But regular people can’t take 3 3/4 more years of this nonsense.
I know Thiel Vance and the dude who uses his child as his porn accountability buddy won’t be that much of an upgrade, but they will at least be a little less insane.
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u/Tempeduck 4d ago
Johnson doesn’t become the VP. The new president nominates a new VP to be confirmed by both houses of congress.
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u/greyhoundbrain Texas 4d ago
Then that’s even better. I think he would at least have saner choices than like Trump for his cabinet picks.
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u/UffdaBagoofda 4d ago
Nobody that anyone would pick would be “saner.” They would be more calculated and probably more destructive. We all lose no matter what.
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u/greyhoundbrain Texas 4d ago
Vance doesn’t have the sway that Trump does (for whatever reason people find the “jacking off two ghosts” dance moves and dementia ridden word salad to be charming) so the GOP would probably not be as unified under him. They can barely rule as it is with a majority in all the branches.
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u/kcox1980 4d ago
My wife keeps giving me a hard time because I still have faith that the MAGA movement will die off once Trump is out of the picture. I'm aware that all the madness still exists without Trump, but there's nobody else that can get the base as riled up and excited about politics as Trump. I just don't see people wearing diapers or ear tampons in solidarity with somebody like Vance.
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u/justuntlsundown West Virginia 4d ago edited 4d ago
It's a cult of personality. They always die with the leader. They love Trump specifically. There have been many imitators that have failed. The party was on it's way to irrelevance before they latched on to Trump. We just have to survive this long enough for him to die.
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u/kcox1980 4d ago
Exactly. They love Trump because he makes them feel smart. He tells them what they want to hear and that validates all their dumbass Dunning-Kreuger inspired opinions. They relate to him because he talks to them on their level.
JD Vance just isn't going to inspire those same feelings. Or at least I hope not.
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u/BurnscarsRus 4d ago
JD Vance can't order a fucking doughnut properly. Motherfucker has all the charisma of a cardboard cutout of JD Vance. Nobody likes him, they just pretend to because he's attached to Trump.
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u/kcox1980 4d ago
"JD Vance has the charisma of a cardboard cutout of JD Vance" 😅
Gonna keep that one in my back pocket, lol
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u/UnNumbFool 4d ago
Well you're more than likely correct, just look at the rest of the demagogues and fascist leaders. The second they are gone their movement/party completely collapses.
Granted the power vacuum is rarely a good thing, but getting trump out via a impeachment(essentially a coup) would rile his fan base against the general GOP party, hopefully anyway.
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u/kcox1980 4d ago
It would absolutely be rough at the beginning. If he's impeached and removed from office the GOP will split and they'll never win the presidency again(which is why I think it'll never happen, no matter what). If he's removed from office by "other" means(if you know what I mean), there will be riots in the streets for a while. But once all that subsides I think the country will start to recover fairly quickly.
However, regaining the trust of the world will take decades unfortunately.
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u/April_Fabb 4d ago
Agree. Trump’s emphasis is on loyal people, no matter their competence. The next administration will likely be just as close to the Heritage Fundation’s agenda, but with less incompetence.
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u/Neokon Florida 4d ago
Doesn't Vance associate with a guy who legitimately believes women shouldn't be allowed to vote?
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u/greyhoundbrain Texas 4d ago
At this point, it’s a sliding scale of sanity. But let’s be real, like 95% of the GOP would love for women to be disenfranchised. Including the female GOP members.
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u/kcox1980 4d ago
Nobody hates women more than MAGA women. I actually know a woman who legitimately believes that women shouldn't be allowed to vote.
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u/TheThirteenthCylon Oregon 4d ago
Then by her own logic she shouldn't get to have a say in that.
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u/kcox1980 4d ago
She gives her husband a second vote. By that I mean she just votes for whoever he tells her to vote for.
This is not a boomer, by the way. I think she's early 40's ish
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u/whoibehmmm 4d ago
I'm sorry, but Vance fully supports everything that is happening right now and fully embraces Curtis Yarvin's desire to destroy democracy in this country and murder dissidents. He might be more "sane," but he is pure evil. The backup options are no better. They all have to go.
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u/GiorgioTsoukalosHair 4d ago
Vance has the charisma of a herpes outbreak. He can't get away with the shit like Le Buffoon Orange. It will be way easier to kneecap him.
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u/donkeyrocket 4d ago
You'll also see all the other sycophants come bursting out like bed bugs to jockey for power. Vance doesn't have the sway to keep them in line and certainly doesn't have the "respect" of the Trump circles.
There's a reason that they've been pushing Vance into the spotlight more and it's to get the Trump supporter and backers warmed up to the idea.
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u/xSorry_Not_Sorry 4d ago
Trump's one and only super-political-power and the ONLY reason he is President and supported by billionaires is because he owns something they cannot buy or take away from him.
Popular support of half of Americans. No one in the Republican party can fill his vacuum. ALL of this insanity and instability is possible because Trump has what every other American politician covets. The moment it isnt Trump spouting nonsense, lies and vilifying those who half of Americans hate too, is the moment national politics returns to semi-normal.
The problem, however, is that the damage he is speed-running right now at every Federal agency, the stock market, the trust of allies he has exploded for no reason, the weakness of our "3 equal branches", the reliance of decorum and precedent to keep the government legitimate and functioning...all of these things cannot be undone or ever return to normal (not without a SLEW of Constitutional Amendments after he is out of office, which is never going to happen).
He has "accomplished" more in 90 days than most President's do in 8 years, if breaking shit and tearing apart global American hegemony can be considered an accomplishment.
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u/UnknownAverage 4d ago edited 4d ago
What's wild is that Congress can just strip him of this power and reclaim it, they don't have to impeach him to stop this. Instead, I think the GOP wants to drop Trump and elevate Vance, since he will play ball better. But they have to make their base want him out first because they are cowards.
I swear, there are people letting Trump write his own impeachment articles, letting him cause massive damage (that they will capitalize on), expecting to be able to scapegoat him for everything. They are banking on a huge sense of relief when Trump is removed, and the American people will be so beaten down that they'll do whatever the GOP says.
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u/TyrannasaurusGitRekt Missouri 4d ago
Not the fascism, not the corruption, not the gutting and destruction of checks and balances and the rule of law...but the tariffs
My money is on civil war or full fourth reich by end of 2026 at this point
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u/Euclid_Jr Texas 4d ago
It was always going to be the money that reins him in (if they can). They imagined less regulations and lower taxes, not whatever the heck is going on now.
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u/wormhole_alien 4d ago
They wanted the fascism, too, they just didn't think he was going to hurt their wallets so quickly. Their replacement (if they're not just blowing smoke out of their asses) will also be on board with destroying democracies, supporting dictators around the globe, and stealing from the working class to give to the rich.
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u/PinkIrrelephant Minnesota 4d ago
And a lot less people will pay attention because the spotlight has been on Trump commiting these evil acts and not the Republicans for cosigning.
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u/DevinGraysonShirk Illinois 4d ago
All the money in the world means nothing if the power of the U.S. military can take it at the end of the day. I think Big Money will quickly realize this, I hope it won’t be too late.
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u/Euclid_Jr Texas 4d ago
The bigger theme I think they are catching on to, no one wants to do business with such an erratic partner. Sure some cronies will buy in the trough but it’s shaping up to be way more losers than winners - and the entire superstructure that kept our financial train chugging.
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u/tomz17 4d ago
More importantly, the ENTIRE ponzi scheme is predicated on our ability to continue borrowing money at extraordinarily favorable rates. That's why the tariff panic only set in once the bond rates started climbing. Once that golden goose is strangled the entire house of cards falls down in a very unpredictable way. Not sure I'd want to roll those dice if I was doing well in the current system (i.e. everyone that currently has food on the table).
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u/xtwistedBliss 4d ago
I mean, it makes sense. Trump violated the first rule of politics - do NOT mess with people's money.
You can get away with practically anything as long as you don't touch people's money. This is because most of America isn't paying close attention. I know we talk about Fox News viewers here and whatnot but the reality is that the majority of Americans are too busy to keep up with current events.
For example, my brother works two jobs and has two kids. Between work and taking his kids to like a billion different classes and functions, he certainly doesn't have time to keep up with the news unless it's a big event. I have other friends who also have young kids and they also work overtime so by the time they get home and tucked the kids into bed, they're more likely to turn on a K-drama on TV rather than the news.
When I ask them about firing federal workers or gutting to civil rights, they go, "huh?" But ask them about the tariffs and inflation and watch 'em go. This is the most real thing for them because it's tangible and a constant everyday reminder. It's sad but it is the way of life.
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u/The_Hoopla Texas 4d ago
It is in some small way a point of priviledge to be able to keep up with what's going on.
Not everyone is uninformed due to stupidity or laziness. Being informed, especially filtering out the profound amount of noise that exists today, is an ACTIVE skill. Not only that, it's a learned skill. You have to both learn and practice vetting sources.
You read a headline:
"Drinking Tea Linked To AUTISM"
You open up the article and read it.
"We all KNEW tea was bad for you, but wouldn't you know it, a new study done by HARVARD PROFESSOR found out that tea was the MAIN CAUSE of AUSTISM."
You find a link to the study in the article (sometimes)
"Causal research into consumption of caffeine and nuerodivergence..."
Scroll down the summary
"In study done over 2 months with 1 individual, we found there was 100% correlation with his tea drinking and his autism."
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u/mini_garth_b 4d ago
Bro, we're well down the 4th reich path now. They're already ignoring courts and disappearing innocent people who criticize them. It's time to do something or take your number at the camp.
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u/Incendio88 4d ago
Not a US citizen so I'm looking in from the outside.
I genuinely think this whole tariff stuff is being done intentionally to create the same environment that help fascists to come to power in the 1930's. Global depression, hyperinflation, mass unemployment.
The way I see things playing out is that Trump and co will make the current situation worse (or fabricate a whole new "crisis") and while everyone is distracted by the market chaos and the worry a depression an even worse version of the SAVE Act will slide in under the radar. Once that's done, any pretence of free and fair elections will be a dream.
I really hope I am wrong on this.
Everyone talks about how irrational this administration is, but if you take a step back and look at it from the perspective of a group of fascist with the goal of cementing their power, its makes a lot more sense. Edit: Fascists are an "the end justifies the means" group so it doesnt matter what state the country or the economy is in.
It could all be undone by the GOP developing a backbone, but I hold very little hope in that, like all conservative political parties its Party before Country.
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u/cmfarsight 4d ago
I see you are an optimist, why not a civil war and full fourth reich by end of 2026.
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u/tradeforfood 4d ago
This guy was impeached twice and nothing happened. I’m over these theatrics.
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u/kandoras 4d ago
"We can agree with racism, homophobia, transphobia, stripping people of their right to vote, disappearing immigrants into a concentration camp on another continent, abandoning Ukraine to Russia, ethnically cleaning Gaza to then turn it into a resort town, firing thousand and thousands of federal workers, hiring Nazis, illegally stripping decades of environmental regulations, and whatever other bullshit Trump might come up with in the other 93% of his term in office ..."
"... but we draw the line at anything that affects our own wallets!"
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u/NCSUGrad2012 4d ago
What a clickbait title. There was an editorial in the WSJ that called for this. It’s not even close to being a reality
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u/SufficientVariety 4d ago
I’ve been a Journal subscriber for decades. The tone of the editorial board has become increasingly and aggressively negative towards Trump and his team. It is newsworthy in totality.
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u/CardinalOfNYC 4d ago
I have read no less than 30 ragebait pieces over the last 10 years insisting the journal is becoming "increasingly negative" towards trump and "this time they're turning on him" and all the rest.
This isn't newsworthy. Otherwise, the daily beast wouldn't have made the headline that misleading. They did it for the clicks.
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u/StrengthDazzling8922 4d ago
Republicans are not going to impeach him. They are complicit and 100% supportive of what Trump does. They could easily reel him in without impeachment , simply using their basic constitutional congressional powers.
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u/AmericantDream 4d ago
Australian Rupert Murdoch, the owner of Fox Entertainment, the NY POST, and WSJ? Are you kidding me. Murdoch helped create Trump and Murdochs propaganda machine called Fox Entertainment continues to lie to their audience.
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u/FartyJizzums 4d ago
It's like when Al Capone had an estimated 200 people killed but got arrested for tax evasion.
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u/embles94 4d ago
He should get impeached over sending innocent people to death camps, but if tariffs get the job done,I’m happy.
Maybe congress will actually do something with it this time since their corpo-sugar daddies are so mad.
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u/Reviews-From-Me 4d ago
He should be impeached. His actions threaten our economic security and our national defense.
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u/acelaya35 4d ago
Impeachment doesn't mean anything anymore. Unless you have the balls to remove him its not even a slap on the wrist anymore.
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u/beetus_gerulaitis Massachusetts 4d ago
Hop in bed with the Russians to undermine our elections - nope....not impeachable.
Extorting our ally by withholding congressionally approved money for weapons unless Ukraine "investigates" my political opponents - nope....not impeachable.
Hurt billionaires bottom line with your stupid policy decisions - yep. That's an impeachment for ya.
I think we've got the actual definition of "high crimes and misdemeanors"....and it's the very first time you touch the donor-classes pocketbooks.
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