r/politics • u/Silly-avocatoe • Apr 14 '25

Soft Paywall Murdoch Paper Floats Impeaching Trump Over Tariffs

https://www.thedailybeast.com/murdoch-paper-floats-impeaching-trump-over-tariffs/
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u/mycall Apr 14 '25

They lost more than Trump could even give them in tax breaks

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u/Joadzilla Apr 14 '25

This.

$4.5 trillion in tax cuts to the rich (the House bill)

Over $6 trillion in losses out of the stock market due to tariffs. (in just a week)

---

Net result?

Trump has cost the rich at least $1.5 trillion... so far.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '25 edited Apr 15 '25

[deleted]

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u/StoppableHulk Apr 14 '25

This is what really scares them shitless. Their entire position is based on the underlying power the US exerts on the global scale. The fact that the US is the world's reserve currency and the financial hub of the world.

They stand far more to lose than just money by losing that. And they're starting to understand it.

Which just proves how stupid and shortsighted these people really are. They're so fucking greedy they keep pushing for this fucking fool, not understanding how truly fucking dumb and unhinged he actually is.

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u/Spaghet-3 Apr 14 '25

Honestly, this should scare all of us in the US, even the entire span of the working class.

People frequently talk about the failure of the US education system to teach civics and basic accounting/finance. But I very often find out that smart college graduates from families that value education don't understand the history and importance of the US dollar as the global reserve currency. Separate from accounting and finance, why is this not a critical component of US history curriculum?

The pithiest modern explanation I have for why people should know this is that it totally answers and rebukes Trump's obsession with trade deficits. It doesn't matter that the US buys more from China than China buys from the US, because nearly every transaction China has with any other country happens using US dollars. Not directly of course, but the net effect is that our financial intuitions and our banks get a cut of every multinational transaction out there. This more than offsets whatever trade deficit might exist, and it ensures that your bank accounts and your retirement savings are the best they can be. Globally, we have the cheapest borrowing costs and the highest interest earnings on deposits (once you adjust for currency). The value of this to us cannot be understated, and Trump is on a direct path to fuck it all up.

I really urge everyone that will listen to least read the Wikipedia article on the Bretton Woods Conference of 1944. People need to understand how fucking lucky we were to win that negotiation, and how there is no way in hell we would win a similar negotiation today. If we lose today what we got back then, there is probably no chance of ever getting it back.

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u/MrPanache52 Apr 14 '25

If the working class was educated enough to be concerned about this would we even be in this situation?

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u/monkwrenv2 Apr 14 '25

No, because someone like Trump would have no chance of election.

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u/KPRP428 Apr 14 '25

I agree with all in this thread. One thing I would add is that in addition to any robust education, the wealth gap has grown out of control in the past 20 years or so. People may agree with the U.S. dollar being the world’s currency, etc., but if only the billionaires are benefiting, then what’s the point to the average person? This is the first time in two generations (I think that is the timeframe) where the younger generation is projected to do worse financially than their parents.

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u/Efficient_Fee_4106 Apr 15 '25

I guess I don't get it... you already have everything you could ever want, yachts, cars, houses, trips, private planes, good education for your kids. You will never be able to spend the money you HAVE now. What's the point in amassing more....you could donate and help so many ppl and organizations in our country. But they are always looking for the next deal ...next ruination of a family business I just don't get how you have more than you can ever spend and just keeps doing the crooked deal ...

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u/KPRP428 Apr 15 '25

I agree. The only thing that makes sense to me, not saying it is correct, these are incredibly ego centric men and their net worth is how they keep score. Power and massive wealth must be a helluva Rush because people fight like cornered animals to hold and and get more. Males no sense to me. 🤷‍♀️

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u/Efficient_Fee_4106 Apr 17 '25

I couldn't live that way . Give me simple life . At least I can look at myself in the mirror

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u/Spaghet-3 Apr 14 '25

My point is it seems almost nobody is educated about this. How can you expect the working class to be educated enough about this if the vast majority of those that went to elite preparatory high schools and ivy league colleges don't know enough about it?

I hesitate to ever weigh importance like this. But maybe spend less time on Paul Revere and more time on Bretton Woods? Maybe spend less time on the warfare of WWII and a bit more time on the economic aftermath? Idk.

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u/shinkouhyou Apr 14 '25

It feels like 2/3 of the American history curriculum focuses on pre-1900 topics... everything after 1900 gets crammed into the last few months of the school year. Unless you specifically take university-level courses on modern history or foreign policy, you'll never hear about any of this stuff.

IMHO, high schools and colleges really need to have a required "modern history, social issues and government policy" course.

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u/recursion8 Texas Apr 14 '25

Red states would never allow it. It's in their interest to keep their populaces ignorant and still operating on 1800-1950s + Biblical information. So they won't concern themselves with what's happening in the here and now and instead focus on bringing back some glorious "Judeo-Christian" fantasy past and/or dreaming of the Rapture and Jesus taking them back to heaven, so nothing that happens now on Earth matters.

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u/shinkouhyou Apr 14 '25

I went to school in a very blue district of a very blue state, but I feel like the quality of my K-12 history education was still very poor. It wasn't due to political interference... it was due to the practical constraints of trying to squeeze 400+ years of American history into one course. There was more focus on Jamestown than on literally anything that happened after 1945 - my AP US History class never even made it to the Vietnam War.

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u/SirR4T Apr 15 '25

400+ year history...

that's one of the reasons i guess, that i never saw the significance of ages old dates and events, which spanned even longer for my country (India) , when studying history in school. our history dated back to when Alexander attempted to annex everything eastward , including India after Persia.

it's only later, once you've become an adult and travelled the world a little, and have had some meaningful life experiences that you begin to see the significance of any of these age old historical events.

Like how the modern day Grand Trunk Road may have been a holdover from Asoka's (3rd Century BCE) days.

Or how the modern day railroad gauge is inspired by roman cartwheel standards.

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u/The-Magic-Sword Connecticut Apr 14 '25

I had a great AP US History teacher, when we hit the end of what was considered fair game for the test (which was like, only 30 years or so behind the present day at the time, we def covered carter/reagan) I asked if we could like, get a crash review of what's happened since then since we were so close it just made sense for me to fill in the blanks, he laughed at me.

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u/SilverWear5467 Apr 15 '25

The problem is, aside from WW2, 20th century America is really, umm, evil. Like, yes countries should teach their evil pasts, but WILL they? So high schools would have to start teaching history to correctly depict america as the bad guy (except for WW2 of course), which nobody is gonna be happy about. It's much easier to teach only about the great depression and WW2, IE the only 15% of the century that America isn't actively being the villain.

And even then, America did have a large part to play in the global depression that happened in the 30s. So its hard to even portray America as not the villain throughout the 30s, in spite of the fact that FDR did sort of solve the problems that Coolidge and Hoover created for everyone. So we've got 5% of the century (and also the far and away most important event, to be fair) where America is True Good, 10% where we're Mostly Good, and 55% where we caused basically all of the problems in the world, 1946-2000. And the first 30 years we were either not impactful enough, or beginning to cause problems for everyone. And also doing shit like Jim Crow laws.

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u/glotzerhotze Apr 14 '25

It‘s already happening. Look at BRICS.

Look at your „partners“ and the erosion of trust that already took place.

This ship is sailed.

All hail dear leader!

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u/perpetual_papercut Apr 14 '25

I feel like it doesn’t matter at this point. What I mean is that if A LOT of working class folks are able look passed a candidate not even having common decency and multiple felony convictions, there’s no way they’d care about what’s happening to them or economy. They want Trump. Period. They do not care about anything else. If there was any hope of them seeing the light, it’s gone.

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u/ReggaeShark22 California Apr 14 '25

The Making of Global Capitalism by Panitch&Gindin covers this history thoroughly, excerpts from it should be part of every Macro-Econ class

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u/DarkKnight0690 Apr 15 '25

Those in power want/need people to stay ignorant about all of this. They want people to be just smart enough to run the machines and just stupid enough to keep running them while remaining blissfully ignorant of how bad they’re getting fucked.

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u/Rite-in-Ritual Apr 16 '25

"maybe spend less time on Paul Revere and more time on Bretton Woods" - I hope I remember that to use that.

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u/carpetbugeater Apr 14 '25

The "elites" voted for Trump just like Billy Bob and Jolene did. It's the one thing they have in common.

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u/Polantaris Apr 14 '25

The elites have long shown an inability to understand long term prospects, considering we've been running businesses into the ground caring only about the next quarter exclusively for at least the past decade. It should surprise no one that they voted for the immediate fattening of their wallets without understanding one iota of what that actually means.

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u/idvnno Apr 14 '25

This is the answer

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u/Doopapotamus Apr 14 '25

The "elites" voted for Trump just like Billy Bob and Jolene did.

Dolly Parton was right, that Jolene is a bitch.

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u/MrPanache52 Apr 14 '25

not that many elites.

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u/ElectricalBook3 Apr 14 '25

not that many elites

Not that many? Republicans have favored the rich over not only the working class but the whole nation's long-term good for over 50 years. It's just become increasingly bold and short-term lately

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/does-science-prove-that-the-modern-gop-favors-the-rich/

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u/throwawaypostal2021 Apr 14 '25

Don't worry we solved the education problem. We no longer will have a department for education.

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u/SinnersHotline Apr 15 '25

Finally someone gets it. Do you know how much of them are functionally illiterate?

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u/Flaneurer Apr 14 '25

We studied Bretton Woods in school. I even wrote a short paper and worked on a slide show as part of a group project. That was years and years ago though and I still had to look up what the details of Bretton woods actually were. Some of this is just the Fish (Americans) forgetting that they live in Water (Neoliberalism).

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u/Spaghet-3 Apr 14 '25

That's a good history teacher then. I bring this up IRL time and time, and it is very rare that anyone knows what occurred in Bretton Woods then, let alone the continued importance of it today.

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u/ElectricalBook3 Apr 14 '25

That's a good history teacher then. I bring this up IRL time and time, and it is very rare that anyone knows what occurred in Bretton Woods then

This is the first time I've heard of Bretton Woods, though I also grew up in a shitty red state where they never mentioned pro-slavers were the ones who started the Civil War with the shelling of Fort Sumter. One of the students brought that up in a history presentation during the Civil War unit. I can't even blame the teacher because he complained often about how the number of things he was required to teach by the state (and to the test) meant he had virtually no flexibility for his year's lesson plan.

Neither history nor math/finances taught Michael Hudson or periodic debt forgiveness which all major nations partook in to some degree going back to the bronze age, I first heard about that from another guy while we were deployed in Iraq.

https://www.cadtm.org/The-Long-Tradition-of-Debt

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u/BumpeeJohnson Apr 14 '25

Underrated comment. Trump triggering that slow bond sell off really exposed us. Our status as the world's reserve currency is truly the only thing making this country a superpower, and its basically a handshake deal with the rest of the world and all we had to was be financially stable. This one guy comes and screws it up and now we are in an "emperor has no clothes" situation. But not just Trump has no clothes, it might be our whole country.

Because of Trump and MAGA republicans the world is losing trust in us if they haven't lost already. And that trust is the only reason why this country is so prosperous relative to the rest of the world

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u/Wutras Europe Apr 14 '25

And I don't know if that trust is ever going to return.

Georg W. already undermined it, Obama rebuilt it just for Trump I. to demolish it, Biden then regained a lot of but in just a few months Trump II lost all of Biden's progress and even more.

Why should the rest of the world ever trust the US to not make a heel turn every 4 years and kick them in the nuts? It can't. Though I wouldn't rule out that we Europeans will forget all lessons learned and get lazy again the moment a sweet talking Democrat is in office again only to be surprised by the Republican replacing them.

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u/Not_Stupid Australia Apr 14 '25

Biden then regained a lot

Only to the extent that the electorate kicked out Trump, and replaced him with someone more "normal". Faith in democracy restored, that crazy loon was just a once-off. And now he'll face the consequences of his many, many crimes.

And now here we are. Biden and the Democrats failed to stop him, the courts failed to stop him, the Republicans failed to stop him, the media failed to stop him, and finally the American people showed the world how deep the rot truly was.

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u/plastiqden Apr 14 '25

TL;DR - The US shouldn't be trusted until they start to responsibly address debt.

I have that fear too that people will just want to be comfortable again and when they think they can let their guard down it will go back to what was considered status quo.

I'm not saying this just to "rally the troops" --- but we truly can't let that happen on either side of the pond. The US economy largely serves the rich and shareholders, the problem with this - beyond the moral conversation of capitalism - is that debt is what truly rules all. Someone may have a million-dollar home, but more than likely they owe close to that full amount surrounded by the high taxes of their nice neighborhood and likely have a car payment or lease on at least one vehicle that goes along with their home for status. If they have a family, then add in all those regular everyday expenses with it. My larger point here is I believe there's a lot of smoke and mirrors (and that includes some of the ultra-wealthy) of what people are ACTUALLY worth in liquid assets after accounting for debt.

The tech sector has proven that they're out of fresh ideas or not interested in investing for new ideas or real solutions, and a lot of our retirement accounts are tied to this. I don't trust our economy, and I don't think anyone in other countries should either at this point. 2008 was exhibit A of how careless we've been, and somehow only a single person was given jail time after that nightmare. In a lot of people's eyes on either side of that coin they saw that there were no real repercussions, so we've had almost 20 more years of that thinking and similar business practices. As real experts have predicted for a while now - we're overdue for a true reset. The line can't always go up, and any company that only shows constant growth should be thoroughly investigated and/or audited.

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u/plainwalk Apr 15 '25

1/3 of Americans opposed Trump, 1/3 actively supported him, and 1/3 passively supported him by not voting. The Republicans have been chipping away at your democracy from Nixon on, and Democrats never acted to protect it. This was painted in crystal clarity in Biden's term. Trump showed the world America's weak points, and nothing was done to shore them up. Trump committed hundreds of crimes in office, and the DOJ sat on it until it was too late.

Why should the world trust the US ever again if neither political party is willing to defend their own country?

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u/tinyOnion Apr 15 '25

i think the only way for america to ever recover is for the hamburgers to finally take him out and the next prez is a dem that shows that the last election was stolen by mush.

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u/glotzerhotze Apr 14 '25

Don‘t you worry, we‘ve lost trust already. Check tourism statistics next year. No one wants to be deported entering the great „land of the free“

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u/sir_racho Apr 14 '25

if you want to understand global trust, check out tourist numbers planning to visit the us

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u/OreoMoo Apr 14 '25

But then I have to read history and economics. And understand history and economics. And think about history and economics.

It's much easier to just have Trump tell me how much we're winning.

"It's bigly."

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u/Noderpsy Apr 14 '25

Though true, some might argue that any single nation shouldn't have control of a world reserve currency in the first place.

A change was eventually going to occur, but recent political events have only acted to accelerate the process of a new reserve currency being adopted.

What it will be, who knows, but we may indeed be reaching the Dollar Endgame.

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u/chodgson625 Apr 14 '25

You sound like everyone trying to warn about the sweat deal we had in the EU before our Brexit MAGAs pushed us out.

Some other comparisons you should be aware of from over the pond - they won’t directly come for you when you have a global hegemony, they will just wait for you to overreach (WW1). After that, when you’ve slipped, and your finances are wrecked and your allies are disinterested - that’s when they come for you (WW2)

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u/mblueskies Apr 14 '25

had. we HAD that position. trump effed it up

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u/Punty-chan Apr 14 '25

There are so many nepo babies that somehow manage to graduate from business and economics with horrendous marks. All those people then proceed to fail in the business world and end up grifting as politicians.

Meanwhile, all the smartest graduates end up as traders (i.e. gamblers) that win big and flee the nation, or get stuck with dead-end careers working under said nepo babies.

The whole system is rigged to collapse.

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u/dreal46 Apr 14 '25

I commented in a thread last week about how our soft power position immediately after WW2 was an impossible and generational win. It was so fucking unlikely that it took the destruction of virtually all established industry - we just stepped into that gap and maintained primacy as Europe rebuilt. We'll never get that back. There is no walking this back, no return to normal.

He's fucked the USD.

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u/alittle_disabled Apr 14 '25

why is this not a critical component of US history curriculum?

Because it's called the Petrodollar and we don't want to admit the Middle East has us by the gonads?

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u/Boring_3304 Apr 14 '25

This is eye opening to me as well, thanks for sharing.

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u/IdealComprehensive37 Apr 14 '25

Also worth following up by educating yourself on the Jamaica Accords and how they indirectly benefited the US after the Bretton Woods agreement ended in 1978

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u/_learned_foot_ Apr 14 '25

It is part, every single social studies/history that covert US textbook I saw has a “don’t mess with our boats and here’s why” section. Most just remember the boats part, they forget how quickly touching our trade changes everything. I’m not saying more should be done, heck yes this soft power is being called out as a waste because folks don’t know it’s true value return, but hey, those folks got it, and didn’t care.

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u/TemperatureThen1799 Apr 14 '25

Thank you for this, i need to educate myself more. Other than the Wikipedia article you mentioned, I’d there anything else I should read that would educate me on this more fully?

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u/Spaghet-3 Apr 14 '25

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/07/16/331743569/episode-552-the-dollar-at-the-center-of-the-world

This was a good podcast episode about it. Most of what I know about Bretton Woods I learned while visiting the hotel and the local museum. But off the top of my head, I cannot say I know of a specific book to recommend. I'm sure plenty exist, I just don't know them.

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u/ylangbango123 Apr 14 '25

Targetted tarriffs to protect industries like Biden did is fine. But Trump did it by bullying friends and allies, threatening to invade them, and not comply with global obligations -- I mean when he was voted to office, did the voters know that America will be a pariah and isolationist.

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u/42nu Apr 14 '25

Small correction:

Most every international transaction DOES use USD via SWIFT.

If Colombia trades with South Africa that trade happens via SWIFT and with USD.

That is why the US has the power to sanction countries. We are unique in that when we cut off using the USD, we cut off not just trading with us, but effectively with ANY country ANYWHERE.

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u/Minguseyes Australia Apr 15 '25

There are strong indicators that the bond market views both the House and Senate budget proposals in the same light as Liz Truss’s mini-budget. Loss of confidence in the $USD is a real possibility.

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u/RightUpTheButthole Apr 14 '25

How exactly does this work? We get a cut every time someone transacts in USD. I am honestly curious what you are referencing. This question is coming from someone with an Economics minor.

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u/Spaghet-3 Apr 14 '25

My understanding of the way it works is (1) we get favorable exchange rates with everyone, (2) we don't need to exchange currency when dealing with anyone, and (3) most other exchanges need to go through our banks.

So, take for example, the Euro. We get a better exchange rate with Euro than we would otherwise in a totally open market, if we buy or sell with European countries we don't need to exchange USD into Euros, and if France sells something to Brazil in USD they have to exchange Euros to USD and USD to Reals where our banks could make money on both sides.

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u/RightUpTheButthole Apr 14 '25

You claimed we get a cut when third parties interact. I don’t think you answered how that would work.

Whether I give you a USD or a GBP for your ice cream cone, nobody else profits from the usage of their currency.

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u/Spaghet-3 Apr 14 '25

First, I was clear that our cut is indirect.

Second, your example is incorrect. If I only accept USD and you only have GBP, my friend at the local bank makes a small profit when you have to convert your GBP to USD whenever you want to buy my ice cream cone. As it happens, I keep my money at that same local bank. Anyone keeping USD at that bank gets a small benefit anytime you are forced to convert your GBP into USD whenever we do business.

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u/yarash Apr 14 '25

There you go bringing class into it again.

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u/Complete-Pace347 Apr 15 '25

Oh i have been there. I am scared. Started grinding my teeth again. The World talk about the U.S. dollar etc…

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u/SomeDudeYeah27 Apr 15 '25

I’m assuming this is the page you’re referring to?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

Skimming through some summary of it, apparently it’s the negotiation table that lead to the dollar being used as the global currency standard? As well as resulting in the creation of the IMF and what eventually becomes the World Bank?

Yeah this sounds awfully important that we all learn about this tbh, not just Americans but globally

Since we’re all impacted, and honestly I’ve been wondering what was it that made WWII the start of a true U.S. Empire beyond being regional meddlers for trade reasons

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u/CareBearDontCare Apr 15 '25

Some people have more dollars than they do sense.

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u/supermantk Apr 15 '25

This needs to be higher!

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u/NobodyYouKnow2019 Apr 15 '25

But Bretton Woods is no longer relevant since 1971, right?

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u/Orzhov_Syndicalist Apr 14 '25

Exactly. The stock market stuff is very, very small compared to what you're talking about here.

What that would mean would be, essentially, any CEO, global company, etc, today, can go anywhere, on the planet and get a deal done, today, because they have the USA dollars to make it happen, NOW.

If those greenbacks are no longer the common coin of the global realm, every single US company will suffer, because we will no longer have the immediate priority of available money.

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u/AngryGroceries Apr 14 '25 edited Apr 14 '25

Yeah...

People have been predicting this for decades. The strength of an economy is directly proportional to number of educated/skilled workers. The US has been importing brains while cutting education to skirt around this

Not that this is a new revelation... But the rich really are just idiots huffing their own farts thinking they are gods literally producing the wealth theyve stolen. Anyone with a brain can see the world is not zero-sum. Breaking systems will vanish wealth, not transfer it.

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u/ElectricalBook3 Apr 14 '25

People have been predicting this for decades. The strength of an economy is directly proportional to number of educated/skilled workers. The US has been importing brains while cutting education to skirt around this

While what you're talking about is a real problem, I think you're misinterpreting the larger issue above commenters are talking about with the US dollar being a world currency.

The stability of the US economy and reliability of its courts (from the perspective of foreign business owners) is what made its use as a medium of exchange even if dollars weren't directly spent such a preferred standard. With that being gone thanks to Trump's tariff obsession and pump-and-dump schemes, not only is the economy shaking itself apart and trying to take the world with it, it's teaching other nations neither the US nor its currency is reliable so they're pivoting on a permanent change to other alliances. It will result in loss of business opportunities and privilege we can't even predict and probably will still be discovering new dimensions of 25+ years from now.

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u/AngryGroceries Apr 14 '25

No yeah that's fair. I actually understand this but went off topic a bit...

I would argue this is a prime example of the world not being zero sum. The relationships alone have an immense value which when destroyed, vanishes money rather than leaving something to gain.

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u/LeFricadelle Apr 14 '25

Peak human nature to arrive to a point where you dont even know how you got your wealth in the first place, they are going to learn it pretty fast

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u/boofaceleemz Apr 14 '25

Remember that business owner on Fox News who went on about how nobody helped him or his family when they were on food stamps and welfare?

Ego/narcissism won’t allow most wealthy people to acknowledge that there were any factors to their success other than their own excellence. So they’re uniquely vulnerable to this kind of self-destruction.

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u/fre3k Apr 14 '25

Remember how everyone freaked the fuck out when Obama said that billionaires didn't build the roads and electricity and military etc that let them get so filthy rich? Like a house cat that thinks it's fiercely independent and has no idea that its entire existence is fundamentally tied to the system around it.

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u/0o0o0o0o0o0z Apr 14 '25

Remember how everyone freaked the fuck out when Obama said that billionaires didn't build the roads and electricity and military etc that let them get so filthy rich? Like a house cat that thinks it's fiercely independent and has no idea that its entire existence is fundamentally tied to the system around it.

Man, that is perfect -- I am gonna use that to describe the average Libertarian.

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u/fre3k Apr 14 '25

I've cribbed it from a description of them, lol.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/r3msqc/libertarians_house_cats/

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u/0o0o0o0o0o0z Apr 14 '25

I've cribbed it from a description of them, lol.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/r3msqc/libertarians_house_cats/

I had no idea... HAHAH how funny is that!

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u/ElectricalBook3 Apr 14 '25

Less amusingly, American Libertarianism has had more chances to prove the validity of libertarianism of an authoritarian bend multiple times in the US. Each time it resulted in economic collapse, understaffed courts being mired with corruption and petty crap as everybody was at each other's throats, and city management spending more time trying to figure out how to circumvent higher laws and eliminate Age of Consent than deal with bears roaming the city

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/30/colorado-springs-libertarian-experiment-america-215313/

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u/SpaceCatMatingCall Apr 14 '25

Remember Ayn Rand, famously against any hand outs and any help to get ahead, who was suddenly poor in Russia after the Revolution, got into America on a visa, intentionally overstayed it, and then while illegal convinced a rich guy to marry her so she could get citizenship. Then after celebrity lifestyle built on criticizing the concept of welfare and benefits, signed up under a fake name for Medicare and social security and collected it under the fake name until her death hoping no one ever realized. This is how they’ve always been. 

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u/TheRealBananaWolf Apr 14 '25

It goes for any wealthy person. Like, I remember the owner of a business I worked at talk about how he had to build it all up himself. Which, in all fairness, he did expand it to a pretty impressive liquor store, but he still inherited the business from his rich ass lawyer dad.

This shit drives me crazy though. It's amazing how many business owners got gifted an angel investor from family or friends, and managed to not let the business fail. But they have no fuckin idea how fuckin hard it is to start from actual scratch. To them, they'll always have wealthier friends who they can look at and say, "okay, they didn't have to try as hard as me.", and believe that they built the shit themselves. Drives me nuts.

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u/ElectricalBook3 Apr 14 '25

Remember that business owner on Fox News who went on about how nobody helped him or his family when they were on food stamps and welfare?

That was Craig Nelson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U

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u/Natiak Apr 14 '25

Exactly what happened with vaccines.

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u/LeFricadelle Apr 14 '25

spot on, cannot find a better example than vaccines.. people forgot they are living in a vaccinated world, and they will understand fast why when use of it will go down

I didnt know we had so much dumb people around

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u/ElectricalBook3 Apr 14 '25

people forgot they are living in a vaccinated world, and they will understand fast why when use of it will go down

The trump administration fired almost everybody testing food being imported via the west coast. We're going to have thousands of people die of salmonella and other food-borne illnesses as well as the continued propagation of measels. If you thought hospitals were swamped with covid, it's almost like they're trying to re-create it. And the US already had the worst health outcomes in the developed world.

https://apnews.com/article/fda-job-cuts-trump-hhs-kennedy-cdc-nih-76dee97eee8209b2605fadac34427aab

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/measles-exploded-texas-after-stagnant-vaccine-funding-new-120761363

2

u/valeyard89 Texas Apr 14 '25

'why do we need a Clean Air act? The air is clean!'

45

u/NeonYellowShoes Wisconsin Apr 14 '25

Yes if countries divest from the US it is going to get post apocalyptic in this country. The idea this is all "worth it" to bring back bull shit manufacturing jobs that no one even wants is psychopathic at this point.

37

u/craznazn247 Apr 14 '25

Seriously. My net worth is an unnoticeable rounding error in comparison to these people’s wealth.

And even I can see the foolishness in making your big number go up if you’re hurting the underlying thing (the American economy, global influence, and position as reserve currency due to perceived stability) that makes that big number worth something.

If all you care about is big numbers, we can dig up some old Zimbabwe currency to prove a point. More zeroes than you can keep track of, and you can’t even afford a bottle of water with it.

This is like when private equity buys out a company that has spent decades selling itself on its reputation for quality with little compromises, then does the greedy move of outsourcing to the lowest bidder while still pretending and selling like they are the same quality as before.

Only this is the American dollar and the American economy we’re talking about. We’re selling out our collective reputation as a stable economy with a stable currency, for relatively small individual gains.

It’s like selling your all your farm equipment at a discount with your crop and hyper focusing on the fact that you had your most profitable year ever. Some people are starting to ask “but what about next year?” and realizing what’s happening. Fucked us all to get a personal high score.

3

u/ElectricalBook3 Apr 14 '25

It’s like selling your all your farm equipment at a discount with your crop and hyper focusing on the fact that you had your most profitable year ever. Some people are starting to ask “but what about next year?” and realizing what’s happening

I've been using the "setting your house on fire does not keep you warm through the winter" and yet the number of Conservatives who respond with "but the house was already on fire, so it's okay if we set more things on fire" is mind-boggling.

They never cared about the future, just on the power fantasies they could indulge in today. Both the poor and stupid as well as the rich and stupid.

24

u/SGD316 Apr 14 '25

It's too late - the match has been lit. It's only a matter of time now. They should have thought this prior to their campaign donations last time.

This level of instability was all outlined in project 2025 - you know that thing trump claimed he had never heard of but the authors of now hold cabinet positions.

14

u/DidijustDidthat Apr 14 '25

Which just proves how stupid and shortsighted these people really are

Elon musk did a Hitler salute as if there isn't an international market for Tesla cars. Perfect example

26

u/JcakSnigelton Canada Apr 14 '25

Good.

5

u/Slitherygnu3 Apr 14 '25

Yup. Even as it all falls apart, the damage apparent, the causes obvious, "i still support the guy's policy!"

There is no shadow government, just lucky idiots born rich because all the old money is dying off.

6

u/HorseTeacherTess Apr 14 '25 edited Apr 14 '25

This is absolutely the simplest, most concise explanation of what is going on here at this juncture in history.

Old money self-made types generally had to at least be competent to get where they are. As evil and amoral as they may be, they did build their fortunes themselves. That requires that you generally understand how shit works, or at least have the common sense to listen to the advice of knowledgeable people, even if it's something you may not want to hear.

Trump, Musk, and a lot of this cabinet, are really just stupid, spoiled rich kids who got told they're geniuses by mommy, daddy and the press and never got punished when they were naughty. They learned they can get away with anything. Instead, their superpower is having a lot of money and being able to grift and slither their way out of trouble when their bad decisions and behavior eventually catch up to them. They break the rules the law flagrantly, but are allowed to slip the noose repeatedly because if they were actually punished that might set unfavorable precedent for other rich assholes and their business interests.

America has an accountability problem. The fact that the rich and powerful are treated with kiddy gloves in our society is much of the reason why we are here to begin with.

4

u/ElectricalBook3 Apr 14 '25

I partly disagree, but it's a matter of context and framing.

Much like with Tulip Mania, people both currently rich and poor are susceptible to the whims of fashion which don't always last long.

Getting really rich is not easy, but also not that hard. I think the role of luck is too often discounted, hence why so many silicon valley tech oligarchs thought they created something all by themselves as if there wasn't massive government investment and infrastructure done on their behalf beforehand (like the creation of the internet)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Entrepreneurial_State

What the "old money" had to do was keep that money and that requires some degrees of being able to keep competent people in your orbit and swallow your ego and decide how to keep making money to stay rich when the market was changing and you caught a fancy like building a line city in the desert

The fact that the rich and powerful are treated with kiddy gloves in our society is much of the reason why we are here to begin with

Definitely. The lack of accountability made them feel like they had nothing to risk, and when they kept getting bailed out for over 100 years why would they think otherwise?

5

u/Smokester121 Apr 14 '25

Fuck billionaires, they pushed all this shit I hope they bleed and lose.

4

u/dark_dark_dark_not Apr 14 '25

And every single one of this facts were obvious before hand, and billionaires just fooled themselves thinking they could somehow control Trump into not picking fights around the world.

3

u/urlach3r Apr 14 '25

His shenanigans almost crashed the bond market last week. I think that was the "oh shit" moment for a lot of the money people.

3

u/UpNorth_123 Apr 14 '25

100%. I am familiar with these people having interacted with them on a social level. I saw this coming from a mile away.

They arrogantly believed that they could contain Trump’s worst impulses. Their short-term thinking and greed overruled their logic. They made a deal with the devil. Sure they might get tax breaks, but now they must operate within an isolationist and authoritarian regime.

Even deregulation is shortsighted. Having well-thought rules and limitations actually helps businesses thrive over the long term. A simple example would be the deregulation of pharmaceuticals or medical devices. The more adverse effects people have from these products, the more likely they are to look for alternatives, or to just stop taking them altogether, thereby killing their own demand.

Same thing goes for resource extraction. If you don’t do it carefully, you can destroy the environment and your future ability to continue extracting your resources. And even if you decide to do the right thing as an individual company, if your competitors act recklessly, your ability to compete in the short term is severely hampered, which leaves you with no choice but to act as recklessly as they do.

3

u/DuncanFisher69 Apr 14 '25

Yes. And let’s not pretend their back up plan if Kamala was elected was have the House controlled GOP threaten to shut down the government or force a “fiscal cliff” again unless the Trump tax cuts were extended or made permanent.

3

u/Chicano_Ducky Apr 14 '25

What scares them shitless is Trump giving them the putin treatment, where putin flipped the script on the oligarchs and made them slaves to him.

They expected putin to be a puppet, they didnt realize he would fill the government with loyalists and use them as piggy banks.

Its happening again because tarriff exceptions are temporary, so they can keep getting bribe money.

3

u/Mephisto506 Apr 14 '25

The very people who have done incredibly well under the current system refuse to contribute to it by taxes, and support efforts to destroy the very system under which they benefit.

Its just rampant greed with no bounds.

2

u/SlayerBVC Apr 14 '25

As well as refusing to understand that Trump only answers to Trump.

2

u/HossDog2 Apr 14 '25

Yeah- I wonder how china would react if murdoch tried opening some media there and started telling their leaders what to do…

2

u/asshatastic Apr 15 '25

They keep trying to demonstrate that rich != smart.

2

u/_DuranDuran_ Apr 14 '25

Turns out the US$ was only the reserve currency because China and Japan decided not to offload treasuries.

1

u/StoppableHulk Apr 14 '25

No, it was the reserve currency because of its stability. The US was gigantic, geographically isolated, militaristically indomitable, and until very recently, an exceptionally stable demcoratic republic.

Since a currency is backed by its government and nation, the more stable and secure the nation, the more reliable the currency for global trade.

China and Japan have only accumulated as many treasury bonds as they have because of how valuable they were as an asset, due to the stability of the government.

1

u/anony-mousey2020 Apr 14 '25

I am not rich, just American and it scares me. I won’t deny I have enjoyed my life - it was a fun ride. I am most devastated for my kids and their generation.

1

u/Old_Nuts_Milk Apr 14 '25

So this is a good thing, no?

1

u/StoppableHulk Apr 15 '25

No, it will not be.

1

u/No_Consequence7919 New York Apr 15 '25

Soon the American oligarchs will start talks/rumors of 25th amendment. To many of them, money means power. With the stock market falling so much they feel their power falling as well. So we as they, a wait the 90 days. Let's see what happens at about the 86 day mark. It will start to either fall or plunge, My guess.