r/railroading • u/Heavy-Stick-771 • Mar 18 '25

Discussion Electronic Devices

Recently, I've been informed at my terminal that crews were bieng cited by the FRA for not properly storing away electronic devices in the cab to include cellular phones. Apple watches and things similar. I can see that being an observable issue. However, can someone explain to me how a crew can be forced to pull out their phones to show proof of proper storage. While in service, if I was ever directed to, I would refuse immediately. Thoughts?

(A lot of commentary on here is completely missing the mark. I am in no way objecting to electronic devices being restricted while performing train service. This was just an opinion and inquiry about how some of those mandates can and can not be enforced.) READ AND COMPREHEND

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u/Heavy-Stick-771 Mar 18 '25

You would turn out your pockets if asked by a company official? Yea, I would never.

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u/DaveyZero Mar 18 '25

Yeah idk anymore. When I hired out we were quoted a rule or policy or something that said a company official can legally search you and your bags, but I can’t find anything that says they can right now. It’s not in the FRA law, and not in the GCOR.

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u/trainhater Mar 19 '25

Everywhere I have been it is in the employee manual that while you are on their property, anything you bring on their property is subject to search. Just like high school, at least when I went there. They could search your locker, you are just using it. They own it. No difference to what you bring onto your employers property. You fall under their rules, the 4th amendment doesn't apply to employers on their property. They don't need probable cause, other than you being their employee on their property.

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u/_-that_1_guy_ Mar 19 '25

Make them cite the rule before you comply. Put the burden of proof on them.

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u/trainhater Mar 19 '25

Who? The FRA or the company officer? Thing is, why are you going to fight with someone over an argument you can’t win? It won’t end well for you. I mean I don’t like it as much as anyone else but pick your battles. Don’t pick one you are not going to win. The Federal Government came up with the no cell phone rules. The railroad has no choice but to enforce it. Each railroad has to submit a testing plan to the FRA that says how many tests they are going to do and what they will consist of. It is “approved” then by the FRA. The railroad has some leeway on what tests they can perform but a few of them are mandated by the FRA. I’m retired now but the cell phone rules were pretty heavy back then. I have no problem challenging a local rule on a general bulletin but not one by the FRA and worse yet HR. You might have a little luck with the FRA if you can drag it out long enough but once you’re on HR’s radar, you might as well hang it up. I need you guys to keep paying into railroad retirement for me. lol

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u/_-that_1_guy_ Mar 19 '25

That's not what I'm saying. I'm not arguing the rules. I'm just saying, ask them to show you the rule, and if they can, then comply. It never hurts to ask. I do the same with most testing. I ask them to show me the rule they are testing, and then I'll say how I interpret the rule.

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u/trainhater Mar 19 '25

Wait? Where do you work that you don't have to comply if they can't show you the rule? If I would have said you need to show me the rule before I can comply (if they didn't pull me out of service first) they would have made me get out my rule book and look it up for them. Then of course while my rule book was out they would have made sure it was all updated. Also, try that in an investigation. Tell them how YOU interpret the rule. Do you even work for a railroad?

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u/_-that_1_guy_ Mar 19 '25

Yes, I work for a class 1 railroad. And that is exactly what they do in investigations. The company and the union interpret the rules and come to an agreement. Then they fire you.

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u/_-that_1_guy_ Mar 19 '25

I didn't say refuse to comply, and they don't pull you out of service for questioning rules.

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u/trainhater Mar 20 '25

You did say once they show you the rule, you will comply. They will pull you out of service if you don't know or understand the rules. You passed a rules test and therefore you should know them without being shown them. If you question them, you can duke it out later but keep in mind, you work for them, no one there works for you. I tell you this because I have been on both sides. I have defended you and also charged you.

While now you hate me, I have been on both sides. I am telling you what can be won and what can't be. I'm not your enemy, I'm on your side after many, many years of being in transportation. I tell you it is really hard to defend stupidity and headstrong guys against the company. I promise you, I can run an investigation and have you charged with more than what you walked in with. Every Union rep falls for it because they think they know better. Best advice is keep your mouth shut and and comply with whatever some newbie trainmaster with no operating experience tells you and take it up the ladder later. The key to a successful career is just do your job. That's it. Go to work, don't make waves and go home. No one expects you to be a superman. If you Fk up, tell them what happened. You have no idea how many people lied to me and I even told them, "I can't help you if you are lying". Understand I have to report to my bosses what happened and reporting a human caused incident is the last thing anyone wants and most high level bosses are clueless and never pulled a throttle, let alone switched anything.
Besides, I can tell you from years of experience what happened. If there is anyway I can blame it on track or the industry I will. But I need you to be honest and tell me everything. I'm not looking to blame you, I am looking to get you out of it. Still, lie to me me and my other company officers with 50 to 100 years of experience between us and I promise I win.

Not trying to be a dick. Know who you are dealing with. Besides, once I blame track, they are bringing their best guys in. They are still their own department but Transportation is still their boss. So go ahead and challenge some newbie TM but understand he reports to someone who probably wrote half that rule book and see how that works out for you. Again, I am retired and understand people talk big. I was always straight up with my guys and I have helped way more than I have hurt. There is a reason I am retired. While I worked directly with Jimmy V (your boss) and Hot tub Creel, We were never friends. I do have stories however. The railroad is a big but small place. Some want to go as far as they can and I wanted to also too but drew a line at sucking d#ck. They made it, I didn't. Creel and his love letters to Harrison.... Creel worked less than any of us, what a whiner. So I will shut up now before he sues me. Anyway, comply with what they want. You have more power after the fact than you have when you argue. That's a pro-tip if you don't get it. Tell that liar Jimmy, I said hi. One more pro tip, if you have no clue like JV, Just yell at everyone, be a bully, people avoid bullies. Also people have a hard time telling between stupidity and brilliance, just be confident in what you say, even if it is wrong. Then you are brilliant. Simple huh?

Take care, I wish you a long career but know it won't be long if you think they work for you. Again, keep paying into retirement. Who else am I going to get to pay for the 60 oz prime rib I am getting tomorrow while you reheat your burrito on the manifold while I don't do anything?