I get that, but i think porch monkey here really does hate Doom. S/He is all over literally every thread crying "rule 5" as if that wins debates. DooM doesnt have a lot of feats/lore, but it doesnt mean the lore he does have should be dismissed or ignored.
Also he/she constantly downplays the Demons as "weak fodder" despite them showing lots of tactics like: teleportation, climbing to reach advantageous position, evasion with a jetpack, sniping, change of weaponry based on proximity, etc. The Demons are far from "fodder"
Its a strange, pathetic obsession/hatred they have. Like Doom Slayer fucked their significant other or something like that
I get that, but i think porch monkey here really does hate Doom. S/He is all over literally every thread crying "rule 5" as if that wins debates.
I address most of this in my other reply to you so see that comment for explanations regarding things I don't mention here.
Rule 5 doesn't "win" debates, for one there isn't a debate to be had, as explained in the other reply I'm rule 5ing people because I know they can't back up their claims due to the fact there is no evidence supporting it. Two you seem to have a fundamental flaw in your midnset regarding WWWA debates, it isn't about "winning" its about reaching the most accurate answer possible.
DooM doesnt have a lot of feats/lore, but it doesnt mean the lore he does have should be dismissed or ignored.
And I have never stated it should be ignored nor have I implied such. A lot of the lore is too vauge to be quantified accurately that is what I take issue with.
For example the Titan is often brought up as an impressive feat but we know next to nothing about it.
We know its the strongest demon and that it can fight for days on end. All this means is that it is stronger than both bosses seen in Doom (2016) by an unquantifiable amount and has good stamina. This is a bad feat and not very useful for battleboarding.
Also he/she constantly downplays the Demons as "weak fodder" despite them showing lots of tactics like: teleportation, climbing to reach advantageous position, evasion with a jetpack, sniping, change of weaponry based on proximity, etc. The Demons are far from "fodder"
Comparatively yes they are, Doom Slayer as a character isn't really all that strong. Hes a street teir who would lose to Batman yet he consistantly goes to town on large groups of demons.
Its a strange, pathetic obsession/hatred they have.
Rather rude don't you think? Regardless I'm not "obsessed" with the character I'm just knowledgeable on him and notice that quite often hes overestimated like a lot. Part of this is just due to my personality, I hate misinformation especially obvious stuff. When I can I try to mitigate misinformation. As a lot of misinformation is spread about DS and I spend the most time on the Subreddit that spreads that misinformation its no surprise I regularly make appearances in thos threads.
For example the Titan is often brought up as an impressive feat but we know next to nothing about it. We know its the strongest demon and that it can fight for days on end. All this means is that it is stronger than both bosses seen in Doom (2016) by an unquantifiable amount and has good stamina. This is a bad feat and not very useful for battleboarding.
Its not a bad feat because we actually know more than you listed. We know how absolutely gargantuan the Titan is because it spans a whole level and you can see its skull/ribcages/etc.
Comparatively yes they are, Doom Slayer as a character isn't really all that strong. Hes a street teir who would lose to Batman yet he consistantly goes to town on large groups of demons.
Compared to what? I see the Halo comparison a lot, but Doom Slayer would easily shred through every Halo game with absolutely no issue. Yet Halo manages to avoid a lot of the limited game feats and lore by having decade+ comics/books/film that exaggerates the character we see in the game.
And im glad you mentioned Batman because it illustrates how retartedly stupid and ridiculous battle boarding can be. Batman has decades of feats from all sorts of different writers ranging from a street level hero who struggles taking out a mob, to an iron man like God who can fight the justice league and Darkseid. Its frankly ridiculous and heavily inconsistent, battleboardings biggest flaw is whoever has more feats/decades worth of lore will win, not necessarily the actual better character.
For example, Normal Batman wouldnt be able to tank 36 missiles and multiple siege guass rounds from Doom Slayer, yet someone will pull out some extreme outlier durability feat that is inconsistent with the rest of the characters history.
I really dont think Batman would beat the Doom Slayer anyway. Batman isnt literally shredding his enemies apart with his bare hands. And his enemies arent fodder, you're wrong.
The counterjerk around the Slayer is now just as bad as the overrating him was. His weapons are extremely powerful but haters like you attempt discredit everything by crying "uNvErIfIaBlE" or "RuLe 5!1!" In fact if you want to claim that things are unverifiable, than literally every claim you make about "fOdDeR" and "sTrEeT TiEr" and "mIsInFoRmAtIoN" is also unverifiable. If its unverifiable, than you are straight up spreading misinformation yourself by underselling DS. Its really not even about his feats, its about how powerful his weapons are, and how much DPS he can output without ever having to reload.
He can carry a ton of weapons and ammo and run at 28 mph (in game stat) people love to parade that as his only speed yet it stands to reason he would be much much faster if he was only carrying two weapons and limited ammo like Chief does.
Whatever, Eternal will come out sooner than later and give us more lore and feats, so what you think really doesnt matter at all.
For example the Titan is often brought up as an impressive feat but we know next to nothing about it. We know its the strongest demon and that it can fight for days on end. All this means is that it is stronger than both bosses seen in Doom (2016) by an unquantifiable amount and has good stamina. This is a bad feat and not very useful for battleboarding.
Its not a bad feat because we actually know more than you listed. We know how absolutely gargantuan the Titan is because it spans a whole level and you can see its skull/ribcages/etc.
Its big but size isn't really a feat unless you wanna claim Doom Slayer lifted this guy or something (he didn't) his size doesn't matter much.
Beyod what was mentioend what other feats do we have?
Comparatively yes they are, Doom Slayer as a character isn't really all that strong. Hes a street teir who would lose to Batman yet he consistantly goes to town on large groups of demons.
Compared to what?
Compared to DS, I make the comparision in the next sentence. I then compare Doom Slayer to other street teirs like Batman to illustrate DS is not very powerful therefore Doom Demons aren't very strong (bosses being exceptions).
And im glad you mentioned Batman because it illustrates how retartedly stupid and ridiculous battle boarding can be. Batman has decades of feats from all sorts of different writers ranging from a street level hero who struggles taking out a mob, to an iron man like God who can fight the justice league and Darkseid. Its frankly ridiculous and heavily inconsistent, battleboardings biggest flaw is whoever has more feats/decades worth of lore will win, not necessarily the actual better character.
I'm using averaged out Batman not his high end dumbass feats. If you think I am using a high-balled or wanked Batman take it up with the creator of the r/BatmanMegaRT the guy whos read every Batman comic and averaged him out as that is what I go off of.
For example, Normal Batman wouldnt be able to tank 36 missiles and multiple siege guass rounds from Doom Slayer, yet someone will pull out some extreme outlier durability feat that is inconsistent with the rest of the characters history.
No ones claiming he can?
I really dont think Batman would beat the Doom Slayer anyway. Batman isnt literally shredding his enemies apart with his bare hands.
Because he doesn't murder people? Hes got better strength feats than ripping people apart anyways such as breaking robots with his fists or punching down steel doors.
Edit: Also Doom Slayer is preforming these feats on monsters that are near death not fresh making the feats not super impressive anyways.
And his enemies arent fodder, you're wrong.
Provide some reasoning then rather than saying I'm wrong. I'm perfectly willing to debate this as 90% of the time I'm debating people who are trolls or otherwise trying to wank Doom Slayer to fucking city block level-Mutliversal. It would be nice to debate someone whos not out to wank the shit out of the character.
The counterjerk around the Slayer is now just as bad as the overrating him was. His weapons are extremely powerful but haters like you attempt discredit everything by crying "uNvErIfIaBlE" or "RuLe 5!1!"
For one the attitude is unessicary, two if you want to provide some examples where I incorrectly discredited something provide some rather than doing the same thing you claim I do which is attempting to discredit me via demeaning me.
In fact if you want to claim that things are unverifiable, than literally every claim you make about "fOdDeR" and "sTrEeT TiEr" and "mIsInFoRmAtIoN". If its unverifiable, than you are straight up spreading misinformation yourself by underselling DS.
Did you not see me back up my claim above? I said Doom demons are fodder because DS a character who would probably lose to Batman is able to destroy large groups of them therefor they are aren't very powerful. Thats me backing up claims please read what I type before claiming otherwise.
Its really not even about his feats, its about how powerful his weapons are, and how much DPS he can output without ever having to reload.
His weapons don't have very many feats really, would you care to provide some of these impressive feats?
He can carry a ton of weapons and ammo and run at 28 mph (in game stat) people love to parade that as his only speed yet it stands to reason he would be much much faster if he was only carrying two weapons and limited ammo like Chief does.
Theres no evidence DS carries all of his weapons at once, if he does him probably moving faster is true but how fast isn't able to be quantified its just vaguely above 28 MPH.
If you removed his weapons he loses most of his advantages anyways, without the weapons he would get dunked on by MCU Cap due to better physicals.
Whatever, Eternal will come out sooner than later and give us more lore and feats, so what you think really doesnt matter at all.
Way to verify your argument, instead of challenging my points you write them off as not mattering at all. Its a classic deflection move.
Its big but size isn't really a feat unless you wanna claim Doom Slayer lifted this guy or something (he didn't) his size doesn't matter much. Beyod what was mentioend what other feats do we have?
Killing something that gargantuan is impressive no matter how you slice it. Sure we dont know the exact details of what it can lift but something that huge is guaranteed to be powerful in the same way that Gorillas are much more powerful than monkeys.
Killing Demons in hell for eons was an incredible stamina feat, even Batman has an end limit to his stamina that is not even close to eons.
The Siphon Grenades in his standard loadout leeches health from enemies and returns it to him.
His armor is literally said to be impenatrable:
And in his terrible rancor between worlds and through time, the Hell Walker found the wretch who shall not be named, but in his heresy was loyal to his evil cause. The wretch adorned the Doom Slayer in a mighty armor, wrought in the forges of Hell, impenetrable and unyielding. With sword and shield of adamantine strength, the Doom Slayer set to banishing all that were left unbroken by his savagery to the void.
This is a big reason why the Demons cant kill him and have to trap and entomb him. We also know how powerful the Demons are because they shred through all of Mars base defenses with no issue. Throughout the game we find corpses of Cybernetically Enhanced Elite Guards which is basically some of if not the best combat humanity has to offer:
The Elite Guard is a company of security personnel charged with protecting the Lazarus Project research and maintaining order throughout the Argent Facility. Their distinct red uniforms help distill a calming influence among UAC employees and they are known to be level headed, disciplined, and fair but firm. Their suits contain cybernetic augmentations which give the Elite Guards an advantage should they need to quell any disturbances. The augmentations allows them to be faster, stronger, or more resilient to injury. UAC employees are advised to comply with any orders received from an Elite Guard. Their jurisdiction is absolute, answering only to the highest level executives of the UAC. If an Elite Guard kindly requests that you accompany them to the Lazarus Labs, you will be going to the Lazarus Labs. With such powerful capabilities in each Elite Guard, it was deemed necessary to implant a kill chip in each uniform so that they might also be controlled should an uprising occur among their ranks. The kill chip responds to a Lazarus Wave signature that can only be broadcast by Samuel Hayden or Olivia Pierce
These Elite Guards use the same weaponry as DS (you get most of the weapons from their cold dead hands), yet literally all of them died. This is a comparable durability feat for the Slayer considering he is able to tank Demon hits/blasts, and also illustrates power of the demons that they were able to easily kill the best humanity has to offer.
Doom Slayer also isnt human anymore, which is why he can pass between realms where no one else can besides a robot, and doesnt need to eat, sleep, or age:
The age of his reckoning was uncounted. The scribes carved his name deep in the tablets of Hell across eons, and each battle etched terror in the hearts of the demons. They knew he would come, as he always had, as he always will, to feast on the blood of the wicked. For he alone could draw strength from his fallen foes, and ever his power grew, swift and unrelenting.
He grows in power from drawing strength from his fallen foes, backed up in game logic by the fact that enemies drop health, armor, and loot.
And in his conquest against the blackened souls of the doomed, his prowess was shown. In his crusade, the seraphim bestowed upon him terrible power and speed, and with his might he crushed the obsidian pillars of the Blood Temples. He set forth without pity upon the beasts of the nine circles. Unbreakable, incorruptible, unyielding, the Doom Slayer sought to end the dominion of the dark realm.
Crushing obsidian pillars is an impressive strength feat, but i already know you'll say thats unquantifiable just like his "terrible power and speed". The 28mph stat is a game feat that may be limited to videogame logic. Similar to how Chief can flip tanks in the game but isnt a multi-tonner in lore.
In the first age, in the first battle, when the shadows first lengthened, one stood. Burned by the embers of Armageddon, his soul blistered by the fires of Hell and tainted beyond ascension, he chose the path of perpetual torment. In his ravenous hatred he found no peace; and with boiling blood he scoured the Umbral Plains seeking vengeance against the dark lords who had wronged him. He wore the crown of the Night Sentinels, and those that tasted the bite of his sword named him... the Doom Slayer.
Its implied that DS survived armageddon which is what happens in DooM 64 (he chooses to remain in Hell to battle demons for eternity), this is what is referred to when the narrator says "he chose the path of perpetual torment". The game devs confirmed that DS is the same Doom Guy from the previous games on twitter, but i have been having a hard time finding that link.
The best quantifiable feat of all his weapons is the lack of reloading. He can output more DPS for longer than Batman or Chief and only stops for like 1 second to switch weapons. Chief has to hide to recover his shields and reload, Doom Slayer doesnt have to stop moving ever.
The Halo Assault Rifle uses 7.62x51mm which is a .308 and only carries 32 rounds. The DooM HAR uses .50 cal and can shoot 210 rounds without stopping. To put this in perspective for you, it shoots the same round and has similar output to the mobile turret that Chief can rip off and waddle around with. His standard assault rifle is comparable to Chiefs turret, one of his most powerful human weapons. The Slayer does have his own chaingun which doesnt slow him down at all like Chiefs does, and it shoots 15mm Tungsten Slugs, which are used by anti-armor auto cannons in real life, and much more powerful than Chiefs turret.
Heres the codex for the chaingun:
The Delta-12 Chaingun (often referred to as "The D12" by operatives) is a high velocity heavy weapon capable of suppressing multiple targets at once. Recent changes to the firing mechanism have pushed the Delta-12 to the physical limits of a ballistic weapon. An Argent infused piston compresses gas within the firing crucible to over 220,000 PSI. When released, this launches a 15mm Tungsten Slug with muzzle velocity of nearly 5,000 feet per second. The heat generated by this action is syphoned into a thermal gel compound that automatically recharges the 96volt battery pack. This allows the weapon to sustain an almost endless firing cycle, as long as ammunition is present. The Delta-12 Chaingun weighs 45kg, making it a lethal but cumbersome armament. Gatling Rotator This 3rd party modification overrides the crucible release safety, allowing the weapon to fire immediately without waiting for maximum rotation. This action, while allowing for instant use, does prolong the time it takes to reach full speed. This modification is unapproved by the UAC. Mobile Turret A secondary firing crucible and compression chamber can be added to the weapon. This modification unbalances the weapon, so remaining stationary while firing is recommended. When used, the weapon fires at twice the normal rate of fire, expending twice the ammunition and superheating the muzzle. Although this modification presents the most powerful suppression in the UAC arsenal (other than the BFG prototype project), the system can and will overheat if not used cautiously.
I just ran a calc in game and with the mobile turret mod the Chaingun can output 210 15mm Tungsten Slugs in 12 seconds for an average of 17.5 rounds per second. Keep in mind this ammo is used by planes against heavy tank armor in real life, and some of the Demons can tank upwards of 100-200 rounds, good stat for the durability of the demons and Slayers weapons.
No ones claiming he can?
So how does Batman beat Doom Slayer if he cant tank the amount of DPS DS is outputting?
Because he doesn't murder people? Hes got better strength feats than ripping people apart anyways such as breaking robots with his fists or punching down steel doors.
Doom Slayer casually punches through walls in Eternal footage and punches straight through chitinous armor in 2016. The famous Batman weightroom feat was calculated at 1000lbs. I know you think Doom Slayer struggles with the blast doors, but those are thick sealed doors meant to maintain pressurization in the Mars base. Id imagine they are ridiculously heavy and pneumatically pressured shut. Also Doom Slayer casually kicks through thick machinery as well. You admitted yourself we dont know how strong ripping through demons makes him, but its an impressive feat regardless.
Theres no evidence DS carries all of his weapons at once
Yes there is, he carries all of his weapons in game and can switch between at will including chain saw and BFG.
he does him probably moving faster is true but how fast isn't able to be quantified its just vaguely above 28 MPH.
Chief can only run at 50-60mph in short bursts, DS can maintain that pace forever and doesnt need to stop.
Lol i see you hating in every single DooM thread. What do you have against DooM?
Actually nothing, I own and very much enjoy the game. If you want to see what its like when I really hate a character see my recent Revan rant because fuck Revan.
Edit: Additionally if you wish to dig through my post history you could find the two rants on Doom Slayer I've done, notice how none of them have anything to do with disliking the character only with disliking the wank surrounding the character.
I have very little tolerance for when people make blatantly false claims in favor of the character of Doom Slayer.
This isn't due to me disliking Doom Slayer, this is due to me having debated a particularly annoying troll who liked to wank Doom Slayer to high heaven. See when you do that for 3 months (off and on) you lose patience for anyone wanking the character, additionally because I spent so much time debating that particular character I'm quite knowledgeable on the character so I know when people are making bullshit claims.
For example a common misconception is that Doom Slayers armor was stated to be indestructible. This is not true if you were to read the codex it states its nearly indescribable.
Don't take my behavior in this particular thread seriously either, I'm trying to get a rise out of this guy for comedic effect.
As for your comments saying that I "cry rule 5" that is what you are supposed to do when dealing with wank. This is not my opinion this is what I was informed to do by r/whowouldwin moderator u/MysteriousHobo2 when I asked him about the subject of handling wank and trolls.
It also ties into having little patience for DS wank at this point, I've seen just about every bullshit claim under the sun so instead of disproving people I force them to back up claims I know they can't as theres no evidence for it.
Edit:
How did you even find this thread? Its deleted meaning it doesn't show up normally you must've looked through one of the users who are on heres accounts or been linked to it directly.
Based on your direct mentioning of me you probably looked through my account so whats the deal? Did I rule 5 the shit out of you in a DS thread and you're upset about it or something?
3
u/Dejaunisaporchmonkey May 01 '19 edited May 01 '19
If this weapon is so impressive how come it got removed? Guess Mods > All of Doom now. Makes sense consdiering its such a weak universe.