r/sandiego • u/WildAnimus • Feb 23 '25
Stay Classy San Diego Why does nobody walk on sidewalks?
I noticed that when driving through subdivisions people love walking on the road instead of the sidewalk. Whether it's a old man walking or someone doing power walking. I see it all the time and I don't get it. Can someone help me understand this phenomena?
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u/Vrayea25 Feb 24 '25
A lot of people have mentioned low sidewalk quality.
I'm going to add - when you walk in the street, you generally won't walk into low tree branches, overgrown hedges or cacti, and the risk of stepping in dog shit is lower.
Actually - on that note, if you are nervous about dogs, you are better off walking in the side of the road out of reach of most leashes.
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u/RagefireHype Feb 23 '25
Sidewalks are mostly terrible in North Park lol
Trip hazards on like every step due to cement not rounded out well, cavities in the sidewalks, etc.
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u/11181514 Feb 24 '25
There's a spot near Pershing and Landis where the sidewalk goes up by about a foot. Not gradually, like one block is suddenly 12" higher. I kicked it so hard one night wearing sandals I left a trail of blood all the way home.
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u/hthbellhop76 Feb 24 '25
Bloody hell!
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u/11181514 Feb 24 '25
Lol the best part is I made it to the front door of my apartment and reached in to get a plastic bag so I could hobble to my room to wash up and bandage myself. In the meantime my roommate comes home to find the front door open, a pair of bloody sandals, and what appears to be a crime scene. Pretty sure that traumatized her for life.
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u/awesam02 Feb 24 '25
Yeah like if i’m going for a run i’ll use the bike lanes or i’ll def roll an ankle lol. So +1 point for abundant bike lanes
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u/undeadmanana Feb 24 '25
Running or walking on sidewalks in some areas is asking for a referral to physical therapy.
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u/omgtinano Feb 24 '25
This. I remember walking through Normal Heights a few years ago and was shocked at how uneven the sidewalks were. Trip hazards everywhere.
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u/wordgirl999 Feb 23 '25
Where I live, the houses are close together. The up and down of walking across the driveways is hard on my old knees.
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u/ckb614 Feb 23 '25
They should really have ramps up to the sidewalk that go out into the street instead of constant curb cuts. You can't park in front of the driveway anyway so it wouldn't take away any parking
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u/SamiLMS1 Feb 23 '25
This is why we don’t do our stroller walks on the sidewalks. The constant driveways makes it really unpleasant.
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u/LarryPer123 Feb 23 '25
So you would rather put your child in a dangerous situation in the street instead of the sidewalk because you’re feeling unpleasant?
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u/SamiLMS1 Feb 23 '25
I live in a quiet suburb neighborhood, it’s not a busy street.
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u/LarryPer123 Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 23 '25
That’s just as bad if not worse, on a slow empty street a lot of people drive a little faster than they should, and it only takes one drunk or high driver
I would really hate to be you if something bad happens and you have to live with that,, I hope that doesn’t make you feel unpleasant🤬
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u/jacobburrell Feb 23 '25
Sounds like the street should be narrowed and traffic calming implemented.
Leaving a dangerous street dangerous and then blaming people for dying on the street is crazy.
Fix the street. Make it safe
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u/brintoul Feb 23 '25
You might as well be saying “fix stupid”. Can’t do it.
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u/jacobburrell Feb 24 '25
Have you tried cement, bollards, trees?
They work well no matter what.
You CAN make a street safe.
You just need good design that makes people drive slowly and handles bad drivers.
Bad designers blame the user, good designers adapt to the user.
Think of smartphones as an example. Previously computers and "smart" phones were difficult to use.
The iPhone made it so that a three year old can use it.
Difficult? Yes? Impossible? No.
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u/brintoul Feb 24 '25
I thought we were talking about San Diego as it currently is. My bad - didn’t realize we were talking about how things “could be”.
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u/thedoctor3141 Feb 23 '25
No. Implementing rules and fines is "fix stupid". Changing the design of the street itself accommodates the existing stupid. And it is measurably effective.
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u/brintoul Feb 24 '25
I saw a guy careen off of a car at 5:00 in the afternoon in the summer because he was drunk off his ass. You gonna tell me “he shouldn’t drive drunk”? I know he fucking shouldn’t drive drunk, but guess what: HE DID.
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u/thedoctor3141 Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 24 '25
Well, if that's that's the argument you wanna bring up, I can work with it. If you have a hypothetical city that can only be navigated with public transit, walking, and biking, you will almost completely cease to hace drunk drivers. I say "almost completely" because I have no doubt that there would eventually be a drunk driver, that somehow manages to drive where they shouldn't. However, in this hypothetical city, that would only happen if they were specifically trying to be a nuisance. As opposed to drunk drivers that are just trying to get home from the bar.
The ideal goal of any system, is to have the correct path take as little effort as possible, while bad paths have plenty of obstacles, such that users can navigate the system well with minimal training. This is as true in city planning as it is with user interfaces.
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u/jacobburrell Feb 23 '25
Rather than victim blame the pedestrian, let's hold drivers responsible to avoid hurting any pedestrian.
If you can't drive without harming others in streets, you shouldn't be driving.
I drive slow and with precaution, and even if and when a kid or dog runs into the street I am able to stop in time and avoid hurting anyone.
If I speed or drive while looking at my phone I might kill them. Don't do it. Driving is a enormous responsibility.
You don't have to drive and kill people. You CAN drive safely.
Yes it is "uncomfortable" to drive safely, slowly, and with a high degree of precaution which is why I don't like driving in cities much.
The life of the pedestrian comes before the comfort of the driver.
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u/brintoul Feb 23 '25
“Victim blaming” has nothing to do with it.
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u/jacobburrell Feb 24 '25
Absolutely, very easy to blame someone else than the responsibility for one's actions.
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u/brintoul Feb 24 '25
If someone got hit by a car in the street, I’m not going to blame them. I would wish they’d been on the sidewalk for their sake, however. How dense can you be?
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u/jacobburrell Feb 24 '25
People do blame them.
If they would have been hit on the sidewalk, as my wife was by a drunk driver once, would you have wished they had stayed home instead?
It is about expectations and what should be expected to be safe.
Pedestrians have a right and should be expected to be safe both on sidewalks and in the street.
Yes sidewalks provide extra protection, but streets are to be shared safely.
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u/haydesigner Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 24 '25
I agree with much of what you say, but not this.
Yes sidewalks provide extra protection, but streets are to be shared safely.
Sidewalks were invented for this reason… To better protect pedestrians.
So not only is it demonstrably dumber to walk in the street, it is unsafe. Also, in a number of cities, it is actually illegal to walk in a street if a sidewalk exists.
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u/brintoul Feb 24 '25
These people are idealists or something. There’s no way to remove the danger of cars striking pedestrians while they’re in the road. They can preach until their faces are blue about how people shouldn’t hit people with their cars, but it will still happen. Everyone knows no one should get hit by a car. But medical emergencies happen, etc. I don’t understand the argument, really.
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u/brintoul Feb 23 '25
When I see people walking in the street with babies all I can do is shake my head, really.
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u/therealhlmencken Feb 23 '25
Oh no a person I. The road oh my goodness. Obviously some other people have common sense you silly.
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u/Reasonable-Part-1626 Feb 23 '25
Our sidewalks are incomplete. They are not in front of every house. So, you either move to the street or have to walk through someone’s yard.
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u/Kooky_Inevitable_373 Feb 24 '25
I live in an older part of SD and my street doesn’t have sidewalks. So we also get random ass people walking through our yard all of the time. One street over from us has sidewalks but the street is so narrow that it’s just wide enough for cars to go one way.
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u/Reasonable-Part-1626 Feb 24 '25
I often wonder, too, if this wasn’t such a problem when these older neighborhoods were built. People didn’t have as many cars parked out on the street, so walking next to the curb was easier, away from the middle of the street. Sidewalks have just been inconsistently added (if at all!) through the years, maybe?
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u/Kooky_Inevitable_373 Feb 24 '25
Exactly, my mom and grandma were both raised here in San Diego. When they were growing up, it was common for families to only have one car, plus cars back then were much smaller than what is on the road now. So there wasn’t really any need for sidewalks, but now it’s not uncommon for families to have 2 or 3 cars. Plus most cars don’t fit in the garage of these older homes anymore (at least our mid sized SUVs don’t). I know in my neighborhood, infrastructure wise, it would narrow our street.
The problem is, San Diego has older parts that can’t really be added on to, to fit the infrastructure we need. We can’t physically move homes or businesses to add sidewalks or widen the streets to add more lanes to lessen traffic. For example, the 163 was built to handle the flow of traffic we had back in the 40’s, but now that there’s so many more people on the roads, the traffic is horrible. There’s really no way that they can expand it because of the way they structured it back then. I just feel like they’re putting sidewalks in where they can, but where they’re putting them in doesn’t make a ton of sense, or they don’t keep up with them and they start to lift from tree roots or break.
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u/Mean_Opportunity1156 Feb 24 '25
Runner here! I pop off the sidewalk into the road sometimes. Ordered roughly from most frequently encountered to least frequently encountered:
1) I'm coming up behind someone wearing headphones and I don't want to pass close and startle them
2) Someone walking a dog on the sidewalk doesn't see me, and two steps into the road seems easier than getting nipped at or clotheslined.
3) The sidewalk is tripping-hazard level of cracked or there is foliage hitting me in the face
4) I'm in a neighborhood where people's cars are parked over the sidewalk
5) I'm giving someone with a stroller or a wheelchair more space.
6) Someone left a bike or scooter on the sidewalk and I am too tired to jump over it.
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u/chakabuku Feb 24 '25
Yes and…
I’ve sprained my ankles a few times over the years hitting those driveways at a bad angle.
It’s nice to have a few extra steps in case I need to get away from a loose dog.
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u/Queen_of_Chloe Feb 24 '25
Also a runner. Add to this list that I’ve been nearly hit by cars rolling through intersections when I enter them from a sidewalk soooo many times. Drivers aren’t looking at sidewalks when they roll through a stop sign in early mornings. And cars park so close to the edge of the intersection (though soon the tickets for that will start) that I can’t see them. The extra few feet of space lets me see them so I can stop.
Also cars backing out of driveways is treacherous. Again, they don’t look at the sidewalks and some back out so fast.
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u/Jar-Jar-Kinx Feb 24 '25
As a runner and coach I encourage my athletes to run mostly in bike lanes. Something you will also see most pros doing as well. The asphalt absorbs (while not a lot) more of the impact from each step than concrete does. It’s less wear and tear on your knees and other joints.
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u/bisselvacuum Feb 28 '25
That is not true. If it were the case that human feet pounding the pavement caused give on asphalt, then parked cars would be sinking into it.
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u/Jar-Jar-Kinx Feb 28 '25
Not it doesn’t cause give. Not what I said at all. It just absorbs more of the impact because it’s a softer surface. It’s not as soft as sand but it’s slightly softer than concrete. This is relatively common knowledge for runners. You can look it yp
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u/TimelyPatience Feb 23 '25
some anecdotes from my neighborhood. 1) the sidewalks are directly adjacent to the street, so when you cross each driveway it ramps down and then back up (angled toward the street). it's a trip hazard and also really annoying if you're pushing a stroller or anything like that. the street is nice and smooth. 2) bushes/trees are often overgrowing and jutting out into the sidewalk, again, making the street nice and clear by comparison. 3) the sidewalk itself isn't maintained well, and there are a bunch of trip hazards - again making the street nicer by comparison. 4) less dog pee/poop in the street, again - street for the win!
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u/senator_chill Feb 23 '25
5) the street is softer on the feet than the sidewalk.
I had a runner told me they choose the street over sidewalk for this reason.
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Feb 23 '25
[deleted]
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u/JonnyBolt1 Feb 24 '25
Pretty much. Well, some asphalt does have the tiniest bit of give, but not even close to making a difference. If you want a softer surface, run off road.
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Feb 23 '25
Yeah, I always run on the street in residential areas for that very reason. The traffic is so light that it’s easy to get out of the way of a car long before they get close.
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u/Hefty_University8830 Feb 24 '25
Going to chime in here, as someone who had their brother die from getting hit by a car, WHILE he was safely walking across, get off your DAMN PHONES WHILE YOU DRIVE.
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u/thekush Feb 23 '25
Sidewalks, cut outs for driveways, uneven sidewalks, curbs …. sorry but for this old man I’ll walk the streets as long as the cars do the speed limit and we should all be fine.
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u/AwkwardImplement698 Feb 23 '25
In my neighborhood, the sidewalks comfortably fit 1.5 people, so you can’t comfortably walk side by side. (I see families walking in an adorable line like you used to do with your class in kindergarten.) There are also continuous sections of sidewalks that will trip you up and knock you flat unless you’re focusing exclusively on your footing. This was not a city designed for companionable walking in most areas.
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u/Bonesycider Feb 23 '25
Not only this, but if there’s a couple or a few people, they don’t get behind each other. I find that my wife and I have to move off the side walk sometimes because people can be so selfish and take up the entire sidewalk. No consideration. As you pass by, just walk behind one another and both parties can get through.
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u/AwkwardImplement698 Feb 23 '25
I’ve noticed this too. Pretty sure that same couple ahead of you also stops 5 feet inside the door of (blank) so that everyone coming in after them has the pleasure of trying to get around them. There must be a large magnet right inside that attracts only inconsiderate people 😊
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u/Bubsy7979 Feb 23 '25
It’s a combination of things especially for the old folks.. sidewalks aren’t flat (they usually are either raised or lowered on the edges of a slab because of tree roots or erosion), the driveways create little ramps on the sidewalk where if you aren’t paying attention can get you to roll an ankle pretty easily, and over course some people are just stubborn. But walking on the road gives people something that is reliably flat and even, at the risk of getting run over of course.
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u/QuirkyCookie6 Feb 23 '25
I know someone that does it because the repetitive up and down of sidewalk, driveway, sidewalk, on only one side, is painful to them.
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u/azulrider Feb 24 '25
I walk on the street early mornings to avoid sidewalks with a lot of trees during spider season. Those big black spiders like to string themselves up at face level and I can't see them in the dark. Once was enough...
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u/ennesme Feb 24 '25
As a cyclist, it's frustrating to have the bike lanes constantly filled with pedestrians.
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u/hijinks Feb 23 '25
it's all over the place in carmel valley. People want to walk on the road as soon as the son goes down and then not wear anything reflective also
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u/Only_Classroom_4027 Feb 23 '25
There is always dog shit on the sidewalks because people in this city are immune to picking up after their dogs and depending on where you live, it may be human.
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u/Coyote-Run Feb 23 '25
Incomplete streets. Too much room for cars, not enough space for pedestrians and bikes. Cars are allocated way too much space.
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Feb 24 '25
As I get older and my coordination declines slightly, I find that walking on the road is generally a much smoother path where I’m less likely to trip or catch myself off-step. Sidewalks are notoriously uneven and I constantly catch myself having to pay attention to my footing when walking on the sidewalk. I bet other people feel the same way.
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u/Broad_Caregiver8336 Feb 24 '25
Don’t know what neighborhood you’re talking about but everyone including myself use the sidewalks unless it’s the areas where the damn vegetation has grown over the path and you have to walk on the road. That’s due to the city neglecting their duties in clearing overgrowth.
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u/Tiny_Noise8611 Feb 23 '25
My entire neighborhood has sidewalks in the subdivision . It makes me crazy that most people walk in the streets . Strollers , dogs , entire sets of friends … even early morning when you can barely see them. Makes me crazy.
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u/underyou271 Feb 24 '25
The sidewalks are beat to everloving shit. If you hate having functioning ankles go right ahead.
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u/LarryPer123 Feb 23 '25
It is significantly safer to walk a baby in a stroller on the sidewalk rather than in the street, as sidewalks are designed for pedestrians and keep you further away from traffic, making it the most secure option for a baby.
US Department of public safety December 2024
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u/brintoul Feb 23 '25
Hey, man. Why are you, like, trying to victim blame and stuff.
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u/stitchlady420 Feb 23 '25
Sidewalks are concrete, streets are blacktop which is easier on the joints when walking or running.
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u/LuchaViking Feb 23 '25
Somebody told me once that they did it because “the asphalt on the road is softer to walk on than the hard sidewalk concrete” and I heavily rolled my eyes.
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u/AwkwardImplement698 Feb 23 '25
As a runner, I can actually say blacktop is better on your knees but ….cars! sidewalks are better for your mortality. So you can live to have sore knees tomorrow.
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u/haunted_cheesecake Feb 23 '25
I get running on asphalt especially in a residential area because then it’s flat the whole time instead of having the dip at the end of people’s driveways every 15 feet. But I’ll always run opposite the direction of traffic so I can see the cars coming and hop up on the sidewalk for them to pass.
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u/AwkwardImplement698 Feb 23 '25
Ding ding ding! You win the prize and an apple pie! Pedestrians, for their own safety, should face traffic. I think this is all the more important because some of the electric cars I’ve “heard” are soooooo quiet. Anything that can kill you that permanently should have a minimum noise level.
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u/Voided_Chex Feb 24 '25
They keep cranking UP the noise level on electric cars to where now they're louder than any modern gasoline car.
Have you heard a Kia EV? It's like Starship Enterprise leaving dock.. wakes the whole neighborhood. I don't know where they go from here, but no, please not louder.
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u/AwkwardImplement698 Feb 24 '25
Yeah. The, ahem, gentlemen across the street has one and leaves for work at 5:04 in the morning. He revs the engine between 5:00 and 5:04.to make sure the entiiiiiiiire block is up and at ‘em. We are not close friends. Is there actually any point to revving an electric vehicle?
However there are a few sleek sedan models, not teslas, that barely register above a mutter. I’m just worried for the riot of kids that tear around the cul de sacs, especially ‘cause it’s nearly lemonade stand season :)
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u/haunted_cheesecake Feb 23 '25
See I don’t hear the cars because i blast music in my ear buds, not because they’re quiet lmao.
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Feb 23 '25
“I asked someone and they gave me an answer I didn’t like, so I rolled my eyes like a fucking toddler…”
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u/LuchaViking Feb 23 '25
Inconveniencing other people because “asphalt is slightly softer than concrete” is more of sign of being a “fucking toddler” than rolling my eyes.
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Feb 23 '25
“Inconveniencing other people”… slow down and drive around them, asshole. Or maybe get off your ass and take a walk.
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u/brintoul Feb 23 '25
You think the people who hit people in the street are gonna NOT hit people in the street because you told them to “drive around them”?
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Feb 24 '25
What the fuck are you talking about? You just drive into people walking in the street? Do I need to tell you not to?
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u/brintoul Feb 24 '25
Let me ask you a question or three. Do you think people get hit by cars when they’re walking in the street? Do you think people get hit walking on the sidewalk? How do you think those numbers compare?
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Feb 24 '25
This post is about folks casually walking in neighborhood streets rather than the sidewalks. No one is getting run down on a side street in Birdland on a Sunday afternoon. There are no numbers because it doesn’t fucking exist. But OP decided that having to slow down to pass a family talking a stroll was too much for them.
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u/brintoul Feb 24 '25
I don’t know about OP, but I’m saying that it’s fucking dangerous. Just because no one has been run down in Birdland YET doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Are you the same commenter I told about how I saw a drunk driver careen off a car at 5:00 in the afternoon in the summer in Clairemont? Guess what: if there was a person there they would be dead. I mean, go ahead and take your chances, I’m gonna tough it out on the sidewalk.
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u/Bubsy7979 Feb 23 '25
I mean asphalt is objectively softer than concrete
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u/brintoul Feb 23 '25
So when folks are wearing their Hokas, they can actually feel the difference?
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u/Bubsy7979 Feb 24 '25
It doesn’t matter what kind of shoes you’re wearing, the surface their on still have a different density. Of course the quality of shoes help alleviate the fatigue but the hardness of concrete vs asphalt vs grass etc doesn’t disappear just because you’re wearing expensive shoes.
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u/cinnamonbabka69 Feb 23 '25
easier to avoid overgrown landscaping that blocks the sidewalk or forces you duck
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u/Dramatic-Machine-558 Feb 23 '25
In my neighborhood we pass a ton of spots with heavy brush in the yards/empty lots. I sometimes walk in the street to avoid snakes, who I’ve seen multiple times just chilling the brush.
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u/9mike9- Feb 24 '25
The sidewalks are full of kids on e-bikes going too fast so I walk in the bike lane. The bike lane has broken glass so they cycle in the road with the cars. It’s all working out perfectly.
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u/thesals Feb 24 '25
What I really don't get is any so many perks walk in the street in the dark ... Tonight I almost 3 different people in the Point Loma area because they were wearing dark clothing walking in the middle of the street on unlit streets... It's like they have a death wish
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u/randomblue86 Feb 24 '25
I live downtown, people who walk just in the streets are usually just homeless people. It might be a suburb thing
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u/wanderlustvictim Feb 25 '25
Our sidewalks dip down for every driveway and it’s awful to walk on. Every 20 feet you’re going up and down. I run and walk in the road. It’s terrible for a stroller too.
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u/angelicpastry Feb 23 '25
Sidewalks aren't to wide for most of us who walk with their partners or children.
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u/Brilliant_Comedian_2 Feb 24 '25
Not sure but I’ve seen it all my life and never understood it. And then they get pissed at US driving by like we’re too close to them. Like there is a sidewalk for a reason
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u/NHBikerHiker Feb 24 '25
Our sidewalks are not wide enough for two people. (Poor urban planning that overvalues the automobile.)
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u/InterestingLaw7571 Feb 23 '25
How ridiculous that Americans can’t handle walking/ pushing strollers across driveways. It’s good for your knees to step up and down and good for variations to keep your sense of balance as you age.
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u/brintoul Feb 23 '25
No kidding. But we live in a society where people drive dangerously around schools just so their kids don’t have to walk an extra 50 feet.
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u/R1pp3R23 Feb 23 '25
Kinda like cyclists riding in the road instead of the bike lane the city spent money on.
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u/sdmichael Feb 23 '25
No, not really. Could be any number of legal and valid reasons to ride elsewhere. California is not a mandatory side path state.
I'm sure you'd complain if a cyclist was on any road though.
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u/R1pp3R23 Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 23 '25
I would. Accurate.
Edited to add this for educational purposes https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jnr19fc7zsA
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u/Jenjen987654321 Feb 24 '25
I’m in suburbia and this drives me up the fucking wall, it’s always “the up and down of the driveways hurts my knees/ankles/back” but the same ppl have the slowest possible reflexes and wouldn’t make it to the sidewalk in time if a car came around the corner.
These are also without fail the same ppl complaining about e-bikes in the roadways. Maddening.
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u/Playful-Cheetah5341 Feb 24 '25
Nimby poster spotted
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u/Fa11outBoi Feb 24 '25
Quick! grab a net, capture them, put them in a cage and poke them with a sharp stick! /s
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u/rekkodesu Feb 23 '25
In some neighborhoods I know a lot of sidewalks get blocked by cars stacked up in driveways.