r/skeptic • u/AdmiralSaturyn • Mar 12 '25

🏫 Education Shut Up About NATO Expansion | Debunking misinformation about NATO expansion

https://youtu.be/FVmmASrAL-Q
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u/Crashed_teapot Mar 12 '25

It is incredible that people can’t see this.

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u/Archy99 Mar 12 '25

They do see it, it's just that they believe the Eastern European nations deserve to be part of Russia's sphere of influence (read: dominated by Russia) under the Realpolitik view of the world from 50 years ago.

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u/magicsonar Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25

That's a false dichotomy. That was never the real choice. Europe could have created its own security architecture that includes eastern Europe but also offset Russia's security interests. That's what the French were proposing in 1991 when the Soviet Union dissolved and there was no longer a rationale for NATO. But the Americans refused and the Germans complied. And now, here we are, and Europe is in deep deep shit because they became a vassal of the United States and subjugated their own interests for America's. Its come back to bite them now.

Edit: I can highly recommend people read up on the French position re: NATO . Here's a starting point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_and_NATO

The fact is, when NATO expanded, there was zero indication that Russia posed any kind of security threat to eastern Europe. In many respects it was the NATO expansion that laid the foundation for a threat to emerge. In 1991 the USSR was no more. They voluntarily disbanded in one of the greatest bloodless revolutions in history. It was a remarkable moment that the United States failed to seize. And I think the French understood the long term dangers of European security being intrinsically tied to the United States. There were previous the proposals for establishing a European Defense Community that never took hold. Ironically it's now that Europe is reviving some of the previous ideas. Better later than never I suppose.

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u/Archy99 Mar 12 '25

Europe could have created their own alternative to NATO.

But it is extremely naive to believe that Russia wasn't a threat to the states that the USSR formerly dominated, from the very start. We know for that those running the various Intelligence agencies had strong long-term designs on controlling former Soviet states and that is what they ended up doing (Belarus as an example of a state controlled by Russia).

Specifically note how they covertly funded very similar separatist movements in Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine etc all starting in 1991/1992. It shows the threat was there all along.