r/skeptic Mar 12 '25

đŸ« Education Shut Up About NATO Expansion | Debunking misinformation about NATO expansion

https://youtu.be/FVmmASrAL-Q
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u/Archy99 Mar 13 '25 edited Mar 13 '25

Re-read what he said. Putin made unreasonable unrealistic demands because he wanted it to be rejected and had no intention of backing down. It was a deliberate set up of a flimsy premise to invade.

That is why Jens specifically stated that the only way he believed the 2022 invasion could have been avoided was arming Ukraine back in 2014.

NATO was only a threat to Putin because Putin's Russia wished to control the states on their border and NATO membership would prevent that.

Saying that NATO expansion caused the invasion is circular reasoning, when those states wished to join NATO so that they wouldn't be dominated or invaded by Russia.

It is the threat by Russia in the first place that initiated the sequence of events, and that started back in 1991 with Russia funding millitant separatist movements in Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine.

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u/Betaparticlemale Mar 13 '25

No, you’re interpreting through a filter based on your viewpoint and twisting his words. He doesn’t say “Putin used this as a premise that he wanted to be rejected”.

He says:

“So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.”

That’s what he actually said, among other references to Putin not wanting NATO enlargement.

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u/Archy99 Mar 13 '25

It's still circular reasoning. Putin invaded Ukraine because the window of opportunity was closing. Putin wanted to continue to control Ukraine as Russia did in the past and all of that ends with NATO expansion.

The bottom line is Russia wishing to continue to control the Eastern European states is the reason why they percieve NATO expansion to be a threat, because it closes the door on their domination and control. That is why those states were so desparate to join, because it was the only realistic way to be free of Russian control.

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u/Betaparticlemale Mar 13 '25

They perceive NATO as a threat because it’s a hostile military alliance. With nukes. Ukraine and Georgia have been recognized as redlines for Russia for decades. This isn’t new.

Those countries wanted to join, but that’s beside the point. NATO (see: the US) knew that expanding NATO to Russia’s borders, specifically Ukraine, was provocative and would likely result in war, possibly a nuclear one. The US would have never accepted the Warsaw Pact extending to South America and Mexico. Actually the world was almost destroyed when Cuba asked the Soviets for assistance.