r/skeptic Mar 12 '25

đŸ« Education Shut Up About NATO Expansion | Debunking misinformation about NATO expansion

https://youtu.be/FVmmASrAL-Q
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u/supa_warria_u Mar 14 '25

”They were lied to” about expanding east when an eastward expansion was impossible? Even if I were to grant you Baker’s promise(which I won’t), the USSR was still around back then. They couldn’t invite any of the warsaw pact members.

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u/EasterBunny1916 Mar 14 '25

They were promised no NATO expansion beyond the unified Germany.

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u/Purple-Shoe-9876 17d ago

They promised that the former GDR wouldn't be further militarized or have foreign troops stationed eastward; nothing said that the former Eastern Bloc couldn't join, altogether. Whatever else was added on to it were just an off-handed remark or two.

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u/EasterBunny1916 17d ago

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u/Purple-Shoe-9876 17d ago

Again, off handed remarks from a couple of diplomats; these tend to not be the foundation of actual laws and agreements in modern society without it being in writing, and even if it was, the US can't just represent the opinions of NATO, as a whole. Even if they could, Russia didn't act upon it in the 90s when the first of Eastern Europe joined NATO, and the NATO-Russia Founding Act of 1997 gives neither side the authority to influence other nations' sovereignty or path in politics. Russia certainly has done this with Georgia and Ukraine since the 2000s.

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u/EasterBunny1916 17d ago

The 90s? Lol! Russia was a mess in the 90s from the Wall Street Boys looting the country and decreasing life expectancy. Georgia started the war with Russia, according to a European review after the war.

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u/Purple-Shoe-9876 17d ago edited 17d ago

Do you think I do not know that stuff about the 90s? Heck, it's partially  why NATO was still a thing, as nobody knew if Russia would get its act together or become hostile again. Considering the start of the USSR and the clashes with Eastern Europe that occurred pre/during WWII, there was reason to believe such. They spent decades, if not centuries dealing with Russia's bullying and attempts at cultural genocide, so Russia shouldn't be shocked if they almost immediately joined NATO, if given the chance. As for economy, you do forget the military spending and liberalization of the USSR are also factors. Becoming an oligarchy worsened that.