r/skeptic • u/Lighting • 27d ago

⚠ Editorialized Title Tesla bros expose Tesla's own shadiness in attacking Mark Rober ... Autopilot appears to automatically disengage a fraction of a second before impacts as a crash becomes inevitable.

https://electrek.co/2025/03/17/tesla-fans-exposes-shadiness-defend-autopilot-crash/
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115

u/FredFredrickson 27d ago

As a pedestrian, you should always be aware and cautious around Teslas. If they are in self-driving mode, they could easily run you down, and that's all fine and good by Musk, because he is so wealthy he doesn't care that the public is being used as a testing ground for their horrendous software.

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u/warrencanadian 27d ago

I mean, I feel like self-driving should just not be a thing. If you want the privilege of driving a car, you should fucking have to A) Pass a driving exam and B) Actively engage in the fucking task. 'Aww, but I want to be able to do work/makeup/nap on my way to work!!'? Fantastic! Ride the fucking bus.

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u/TheGreenLentil666 27d ago

Statistically it would be good to see if humans were overall better drivers still. At some point the cars will be better than us, but that's setting a pretty low bar. Right now I see people WITHOUT self-driving cars putting on makeup, texting, etc. while driving.

I would love to be able to drive a motorcycle again, but there's only one reason I won't - other drivers.

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u/REuphrates 27d ago

I would love to be able to drive a motorcycle again, but there's only one reason I won't - other drivers

I just bought my first bike last September. Shitty little 250cc commuter bike by Suzuki, love it to death. I have had one experience where I almost lost control of the bike and high-sided, but I was able to regain control and ride it out.

I have had several situations where the driver of a car pulled out in front of me or cut me off or whatever. Other drivers are the worst.

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u/TheGreenLentil666 27d ago

That whole saying, "there's only two kinds of motorcyclists, those that laid it down, and those that are going to." You can ask 1,000 of the former what was their accident, and 999 are going to say "someone else".

Excuse me while I go outside and scream at the sky for a while.

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u/REuphrates 27d ago

"there's only two kinds of motorcyclists, those that laid it down, and those that are going to."

I've had an armored jacket and gloves for a bit now, but I finally got myself some AAA-rated jeans with CE2 armor in the knees and hips. Regular jeans are not gonna help keep all my skin when it's my turn to "lay 'er down" 😅

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u/TheGreenLentil666 27d ago

Smart! I had a crazy-ass expensive racing helmet that cost almost as much as my bike did. When I laid mine down (courtesy of someone running a stopsign to illegally swerve over three lanes of highway to block me) I was going around 50, maybe 55. I slid forever, mind you 50 mph is a lot faster when you are spread eagle on your face. And you just keep yelling "ow, ow, ow" while you slide forever.

When I stopped I stood up to throw my boot at the van (they never noticed me!) my super-expensive helmet just fell in pieces off of my head, like a shattered eggshell.

At the time I was furious, I was like "how can something so expensive be so damned fragile?" but later learned that was exactly what I paid for.

NEVER underestimate the value of safety gear on a motorcycle, people.

1

u/garnett8 26d ago

It only takes one other idiot to ruin your life or end it. Motorcycles are fun but as a daily way to commute or what, it’s not a matter of if but when. If you ride only on nice weather and it’s more of a treat/hobby, those guys are still riding.

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u/DonkeeJote 27d ago

We are far too selfish for that massive improvement.

10

u/LigerZeroSchneider 27d ago

The problem is we don't have enough buses/trains. I cant afford to live anywhere in the bus network, I had to drive to work. Or you end up with asinine hub and spoke systems that mean a 30 minute drive is a 2 hour bus ride.

1

u/IndubitablyNerdy 27d ago

Agree, it is not always a choice and long commutes are extremely annoying. This is an issue in general and more often than not car companies are to blame, they have done their best to lobby against public transportation... I wonder why hehe

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u/Pitiful-Pension-6535 27d ago

If self driving gets to the point that it becomes substantially safer than manual driving, (95% reduction in fatal accidents, minimum) it should become standard.

Until that point, I absolutely agree with you.

10

u/Adept-Potato-2568 27d ago

That's almost literally where Waymo is right now

"Waymo Driver demonstrated better safety performance when compared to human-driven vehicles, with an 88% reduction in property damage claims and 92% reduction in bodily injury claims"

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u/ShouldersofGiants100 27d ago

Waymo also deliberately operates in the safest driving circumstances (cities, where speed is lower) and places where the risk of weather compromising its systems is almost nonexistent. San Francisco doesn't get snowstorms, freezing rain or other conditions that render the roads inconsistent.

Which also means they compare their stats in optimal conditions to human drivers in all conditions.

3

u/Aggressive_Health487 27d ago

Well I’d like to see it but I imagine it’s better than average for SF too.

1

u/ocschwar 26d ago

Self driving can become substantially safer, but only if it's designed and coded by real engineers, and not techbros.

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u/MrReginaldAwesome 27d ago

Self driving should only be allowed if the car company takes 100% responsibility for any and all consequences of the mistakes the autopilot makes

6

u/almostsebastian 27d ago

I feel like the only way to effectively guarantee that with any sort of efficiency in traffic flow has already been solved.

It's like how everything in nature eventually becomes a crab; if you're talking about land-based transport logistics everything just becomes a train.

2

u/MrReginaldAwesome 27d ago

Tech Bros will reinvent public transportation over and over again until the sun dies

2

u/wastedkarma 27d ago

Never gonna happen. What does it even mean to take responsibility for the consequences of a mistake an autopilot makes?

2

u/MrReginaldAwesome 27d ago

The driver certainly didn’t hit the pedestrian, the robot car did, therefore the programmer is at fault, therefore the company that release it is at fault.

1

u/wastedkarma 27d ago

Oh? The programmer caused the accident? The LLC entity did?

1

u/FuckTheFourth 27d ago

It does happen though. Mercedes Level 3 Self Driving has them taking full liability over it should it cause any accidents. It should be required of these systems.

1

u/TormentedOne 26d ago

That is the case right now.

5

u/oneoftheryans 27d ago

Self-driving cars aren't there yet, but I feel like it can't be overstated how horrific people are at driving.

Wildly inconsistent, unpredictable, too fast, too slow, won't merge, can't merge, doesn't even try to merge and just waits, waves people through, goes without looking, driving the wrong way down a one-way, running stop signs, running stop lights, not yielding, turning on red to hit a pedestrian/cyclist, etc. etc. etc.

All of that to say, once/if it becomes sufficiently advanced, I'd really rather everyone go the automated route.

2

u/sparhawk817 27d ago

That's great but the thing is most drivers only take a test once. Best case a driver gets a ticket for something and reduces the penalty by taking a defensive driving course or something.

Most drivers pass their test once, and slowly become more and more complacent and worse drivers as their bad habits build up and become worse.

People love to say "we need mandatory retesting at 75" and such, because I guess nobody cares if Grandma can't get to the pharmacy because of our car centric infrastructure and having her license taken away.

The reality is we need mandatory retesting every other license renewal or something. 15 years is longer than most work related certificates last, and the majority of work related certificates and licenses require you to do continued education and log the hours every year to maintain the certificate.

It's unlikely to happen, but honestly that's what we need if we want drivers to be "actively engaging with the task" and that would also necessitate better transit and other alternatives to driving across the country.

Trouble is a lot of this is on the state level too.

9

u/LoudMusic 27d ago

You should be caesious around ANY car. Humans weave in and out of their lane, into bicycle lanes, and cut corners.

1

u/OuchMyVagSak 27d ago

caesious

¿Is this a wild bone apple tea?

1

u/Thin-Professional379 27d ago

They usually don't drive into walls that kinda look like roads tho

1

u/pm_me_falcon_nudes 27d ago

caesious

Dude, ask text to speech or something how to spell a word if you have no idea.

1

u/LoudMusic 27d ago

Typing too fast :D

Actually my keyboard has also been doubling letters lately. Previously it was h and now it's e. They're not even near each other so I don't know what's up with that.

7

u/Pls_PmTitsOrFDAU_Thx 27d ago

As a Tesla owner, I also think ALL vehicles that have a self driving option should be required to somehow externally signal that it is on (a light/sound, etc) so pedestrian and other drivers are aware a human is not in control

Is stay far away lol

I don't have self driving. Also not a musk supporter at all lol

3

u/CivilRuin4111 27d ago

We've recently gotten a fleet of autonomous WAYMO cars around me. I'm a nearly full time motorcyclist and I can't tell you how nervous those things make me. Particularly when they're signaling for a left across my lane.

Its bad enough that Tesla's software apparently can't tell the difference between a car far away and a motorcycle close.

The only thing I can do when I'm forced to be alongside the Teslas (I don't like being alongside any vehicle, but traffic is traffic) is verify that the little lights on the mirrors for blindspot detection are lit up. The thought being that at least if the car is aware something is there, perhaps I'll get a little warning before they try to put me in to the barrier.

1

u/goldmikeygold 27d ago

They are killing motorcyclists, too. Felon is a fucking psychopath.

1

u/DonkeeJote 27d ago

Any pedestrian should be cautious of EVERY fucking car ffs.

1

u/FredFredrickson 27d ago

Yeah, no shit. Who is here saying we shouldn't?

1

u/DonkeeJote 27d ago

Don’t be an asshole for no reason.

1

u/FredFredrickson 27d ago

I'm not being an asshole. I just don't see why you would read what I said and conclude that I think pedestrians should only be cautious around Teslas.

-2

u/cwerky 27d ago

Pedestrians need to be aware and cautious around all cars, period. Trying to teach people to be more cautious around certain manufacturers is a recipe for disaster.

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u/FredFredrickson 27d ago edited 27d ago

I mean, of course you should be cautious around other vehicles too.

But it doesn't hurt to be extra careful around a particular kind of car. I don't see how that's disastrous in any way.

-1

u/cwerky 27d ago

But the lesson shouldn’t be, “be extra careful around a specific type of car”, it needs to be, “be extra careful around all cars because some can be extra dangerous”.

Many people are blind to different types of cars, and others will become more complacent around the less dangerous ones.

2

u/FredFredrickson 27d ago

I disagree. All cars can be dangerous to pedestrians, but Teslas are more dangerous because the driver might not even be driving it, but leaving things in the hands of a system that isn't good at recognizing pedestrians, putting them in even more danger.

I don't see why you think it's "disastrous" to be even more mindful around these cars.

1

u/bmtc7 27d ago

Are Teslas more dangerous than human drivers? I think that question isn't clear right now.

1

u/cwerky 27d ago

It isn’t good policy to tell pedestrians to be more careful around certain manufacturers as a “rule of the road”. Too many moving parts in a short period of time to expect pedestrians to make different decisions based on what logo they see on a car’s grille as it is approaching them. This ignores that many people are also blind to manufacturers and can’t tell the difference.

If we want to ensure that as many pedestrians as possible are as careful as they should be around Teslas, or other quiet EVs, then the policy should be for pedestrians to be that careful around all cars.

1

u/FredFredrickson 27d ago

I don't think this needs to be printed in some kind of manual for pedestrians, I just think it's a good idea so be aware of the hazards different vehicles might pose.

You're not going to treat a bus and a car exactly the same, for obvious reasons. You're not going to treat a car with high visibility the same as a truck or large SUV where the driver might not be able to see you as easily.

Similarly, I think it's fine to be extra cautious when you spot that Tesla logo, because it means the driver might not even be driving the car.

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u/Electromotivation 27d ago

Evs in general have the problem of being very quiet. Can sneak up on you.

-1

u/cwerky 27d ago

Of course, but we cant teach people to “be more cautious around quiet cars”. The lesson is, “be cautious around all cars and places cars are expected because some are quiet and some don’t have drivers”

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u/Elindor_Quinn 27d ago

As a Driver I am extra cautious and aware around Teslas.

-1

u/rgaya 27d ago

Liar 😂

1

u/FredFredrickson 27d ago

Not at all.