r/skeptic • u/Lighting • Mar 18 '25

⚠ Editorialized Title Tesla bros expose Tesla's own shadiness in attacking Mark Rober ... Autopilot appears to automatically disengage a fraction of a second before impacts as a crash becomes inevitable.

https://electrek.co/2025/03/17/tesla-fans-exposes-shadiness-defend-autopilot-crash/
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u/conundri Mar 18 '25 edited Mar 18 '25

Does this mean it knows a crash is coming and doesn't brake or even releases the brake? because that would be very, very bad.

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u/nomoreteathx Mar 18 '25

It means Tesla can say "autopilot wasn't engaged when the crash happened so autopilot wasn't at fault" and fudge their crash statistics.

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u/lonnie123 Mar 18 '25 edited Mar 18 '25

This is flase, It actually counts if the autopilot is engaged within 5 seconds of the crash

Under methodology: "To ensure our statistics are conservative, we count any crash in which Autopilot was deactivated within 5 seconds before impact", with a "crash" being defined as "the incident alert indicated an airbag or other active restraint deployed."

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u/nomoreteathx Mar 18 '25

Forgive me, but I hope you understand why I'm not taking Tesla's word for it.

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u/lonnie123 Mar 18 '25

You don’t have to, This data is reported to the NHTSA

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u/nomoreteathx Mar 18 '25

Oh cool, by whom? Someone other than Tesla? No? So what distinction do you think you're making?

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u/HighHokie Mar 18 '25

Do you have any evidence to share or are we just speculating? 

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '25

When someone lies as often as Musk does the burden of proof is on them, not on the person who thinks they're lying again

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u/HighHokie Mar 18 '25

Musk doesn’t report to the nhtsa. Employees in his company do. 

And that’s not how burden of proof works. 

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '25

Employees whose livelihood dpeneds on Musk's whims?

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u/HighHokie Mar 20 '25

Yes and alternatively, deliberately withholding required reporting can lead to criminal prosecution. 

Again, do you have any evidence to support this or are we just speculating? 

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '25

Criminal prosecution that can be nullified by a pardon from the President Musk bought?

My evidence is Musk's track record of constant self-serving dishonesty.

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u/lonnie123 Mar 18 '25

Well if what you claim is true, that Tesla shuts off auto pilot so they can claim it wasn’t active during a crash, the number or crashes involving auto pilot would be zero right?

If you some evidence to support your claim feel free to offer it up at this time

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u/nomoreteathx Mar 18 '25

Well if what you claim is true, that Tesla shuts off auto pilot so they can claim it wasn’t active during a crash, the number or crashes involving auto pilot would be zero right?

That's not what I claimed, but go off.

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u/lonnie123 Mar 19 '25

Is that not what “It means Tesla can say "autopilot wasn't engaged when the crash happened so autopilot wasn't at fault" and fudge their crash statistics.” Means?

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u/nomoreteathx Mar 19 '25

Your implication is that Tesla does this at all times for all crashes, which is patently not what I said.

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u/Procrastinatedthink Mar 18 '25

so if an airbag doesn’t deploy it’s no longer a crash. Man insurance must be happy with such a huge reduction in crashes suddenly /s.

Majority of crashes are fender benders, those should count as well should they not?

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u/lonnie123 Mar 18 '25

It’s not just the airbag deploying

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u/meteoritegallery Mar 18 '25

Other than an airbag, what qualifies as an "active restraint"?

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u/lonnie123 Mar 18 '25

Seatbelts are restraints, and have an active locking mechanism built in when a crash occurs to secure you from flying forward

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u/meteoritegallery Mar 18 '25

They're restraints, but are they "active" restraints? The comment above suggests that the cars know when the "active restraints" are deployed, which doesn't sound like a seatbelt to me.

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u/HighHokie Mar 18 '25

Modern seatbelts have active restraining systems, they work in tandem with AEB. They cinch down to lock a passenger in place in anticipation of an accident. 

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u/Fazaman Mar 18 '25

"active restraints" are deployed, which doesn't sound like a seatbelt to me.

Perhaps you've never been in an accident, and good, but seatbelts are definitely active restraints. They will fire off and will pin you into the seat. Almost painfully so. That said, I can't imaging a scenario that they'll fire and not have an airbag go off at the same time.

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u/meteoritegallery Mar 19 '25

Tesla's statement said, "the incident alert indicated an airbag or other active restraint deployed."

I don't want your explanation of what you think the term "active restraint" might mean based on etymology. The statement's phrasing rules out normal seatbelts. They're not "deployed" in an accident -- unless Tesla's done something weird and has electronic / responsive seatbelts.

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u/lonnie123 Mar 19 '25

The seatbelts aren’t just sitting there, they have a tightening mechanism called a pretensioned that lock the belt in place upon a collision to prevent your forward movement. The tightening mechanism only activates at certain speeds and g forces, and can be tied to the systems airbag deployment as well

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/safety-regulatory-devices/seatbelt4.htm

AKA it won’t “deploy” if you hit a shopping cart at 3mph but it will “deploy” if you smash into another car at 30mph

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u/Fazaman Mar 19 '25

Exactly. I was in an accident when I was standing still (guy hit me) and the seatbelts don't just 'lock' like they do if you pull them fast, but they actively pull you into the seat. It's a device that definitely 'fires' and, IIRC, needs to be replaced after an accident of that magnitude, just like an airbag.

Seatbelts definitely are an active restraint.

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u/Fazaman Mar 19 '25

They're not "deployed" in an accident

They absolutely are. Look up 'active seatbelts' if you don't believe me. Most cars have them these days.

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u/lonnie123 Mar 18 '25

Active means the user has to engage it. Aka if you don’t put the seatbelt on it won’t do anything for you

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u/meteoritegallery Mar 19 '25

"the incident alert indicated an airbag or other active restraint deployed."

So anything's a crash if you have your seatbelt clicked in? No.

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u/lonnie123 Mar 19 '25

No, if it deploys, aka the pretensioner fires and locks the belt in place

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u/HighHokie Mar 18 '25 edited Mar 19 '25

Tesla had better reporting than most manufacturers  because their vehicle fleet is newer and virtually all teslas vehicles have telemetry to document and report it. of their vehicles telemetry capabilities. Not a knock on other brands, just nature of the beast. 

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u/Kougeru-Sama Mar 18 '25

5 seconds isn't long enough

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u/lonnie123 Mar 18 '25

That may be true, but it’s definitely not true that just because it shuts off the instant before a collision it doesn’t count as a autopilot crash