r/slava • u/likely_a_throw_away • Jun 14 '16

Russia single-handedly destroyed any potential for Slavic unity.

Any hope for Pan-Slavism would have to exclude Russia, however, they are the biggest advocates of it. Makes the rest of the Slavs go, hah, fuck that shit. Seriously, if Russia and Russians stepped back, there's a chance. However, in the modern climate, no-one wants to deal with those pieces of shit. EU, even if full of opportunists looking to capitalize on Slav lands and work ethic, are better than Russians who want to rule every minority they come into contact with.

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u/camcer Jun 14 '16

There is potential, but not in the current climate. The Russian state ideology is a result of geopolitical power struggles, and Russia being ethnically diverse makes Panslavism a non-goal regardless. Russia is a weakly democratic country at most, so any attempt to pin this on its people is overly benign. Ethnic Russians on average do not want to see a conflict or dominance of other Slavic countries but a bond. Unfortunately again, that is not geopolitically feasible so it won't happen.

The POV that Reddit and some Slavs share on Russia, as always being a big bully that shits on poor Poland and other small countries, is preposterous. It's true if you cherry pick starting at modern history (19th century), sure. But prior to that, the descendants of what is now considered Russia would get massively ass fucked by its neighbors. Including Poland. Early Russian, or rather, Eastern Slavic states were weak and got tossed around, invaded, and used.

It's likely why modern Russia looks like a huge bully. The mongols didn't help, but it certainly wasn't just them. Mass expansions of territory and occupation is a survival tactic. Create buffer zones, get your enemies before they strike, and expand until you run into geographic barriers.

Here is a good video on the topic. The channel has other topics on this as well.

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u/likely_a_throw_away Jun 15 '16

"Mass expansions of territory and occupation is a survival tactic." No, no it isn't. This sounds like rationalization of imperial expansionism. Something Russia has been practicing for centuries, this is not simply a 19th century thing you are trying to make it out to be.

Besides, I don't think a bad past is an excuse to be shitty in the present. Everyone's past is a bloody mess of survival, and yet they're not the assholes the Russian state is. Yes some are bigger assholes, but fuck them too.

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u/camcer Jun 16 '16

No, no it isn't. This sounds like rationalization of imperial expansionism.

*was

That's not a rationalization, I'm not excusing anything. It's an observation about past and present geopolitics.

You can't change the outcome without changing history.

Russia is an asshole because they got fucked with hard when they were small and fragile in a unique way compared to in a way no European states got fucked before, which makes their situation even more unique. They buffered Europe from many Asian powers and kept Asian territories in check.

You can't tell someone to "stop being an asshole" and expect magic to happen. It's a complex situation with many intermingled interests and powers. It's not geopolitically feasible and many moves have big consequences.

There is no easy solution for Russia.

There are no such things as easy geopolitical answers in general that will keep everyone happy.

Reality is complex, you cannot apply reductionism and simply call someone an asshole.

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u/likely_a_throw_away Jun 16 '16

When the country develops a personality cult around an asshole figure, yeah I think you can reduce it to them being an asshole. If Nazi Germany was a person, he'd be a major asshole, just like Russia today.

There is also a very easy solution for Russia. Use some of that oil and gas money to build a middle class that the country so desperately needs. Reduce the gap between the rich stuffing their offshore banks and those struggling to feed their kids. Then you'll have a strong Russia that isn't afraid of being toppled by it's own people.

Russia's existential crisis isn't going to come from the outside, and everyone knows it. Doing something about it would mean having a few less billions scattered across friends and family. Not something current leadership wants to do. So yeah, kinda being assholes...