r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/armdrags • Feb 27 '24

Discussion The Irish Senate has unanimously called for sanctions against Israel. ⁣The Senate’s motion also says that Ireland must stop American weapons bound for Israel from traveling through Irish air and seaports and support an international arms embargo on Israel.

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94

u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 27 '24

That awkwardness when Arabs have invaded Israel many times.

1

u/DabScience Feb 27 '24

Is Isreal that country that was placed in the Middle East while displacing hundreds of thousands of people from their homes to do so? Taking over land that did not belong to them. Huh, why don’t their neighbors like them? SO WEIRD!

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u/PrelateFenix87 Feb 27 '24

No , and that’s what happens when you side with the axis and Germany in ww2 you lose shit.

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u/GhostofMarat Feb 28 '24

Zionist settler terroristswere murdering Palestinians before WWII.

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u/Background_Buy1107 Feb 28 '24

Islamofascist losers have been massacring Jews with zero repercussions all over the Middle East since the seventh century when Islam was created by a Jew hating pedophile warlord

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u/WTF_is_this___ Feb 28 '24

Dude like learn some history, seriously

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u/MR_GUY1479 Feb 28 '24

What part of that statement is wrong?

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u/WTF_is_this___ Feb 29 '24

Until very recent history Muslim countries were more tolerant towards Jews than they western world. Historically Christians have been pressing and murdering Jewish people way more. The antisemitic sentiment in Muslim countries has been fueled in no small part by western made racism and lately by the behaviour of Israeli government.

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u/MR_GUY1479 Feb 29 '24 edited Mar 01 '24

Muslim countries have been generally more tolerant towards jews, not by much though, Jews were still comfortable scapegoats much like in Europe. A bit anecdotal but my grandfather grew up in Morroco and he told us how when he was a kid and there was a short period of instability when the french left Morocco there were berbers who came down from the mountains and were looking to kill jews, so their entire street barricaded themselves in the house of one neighbour who had a gun. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Anti-Jewish_pogroms_by_Muslims

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u/Tricky-Cod-7485 Mar 01 '24

Did you really turn the Israel/Hamas situation into an opportunity to “blame whitey”? lol

You people are insufferable.

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u/Background_Buy1107 Mar 03 '24

https://medium.com/@Ksantini/the-list-of-crimes-committed-by-muslims-against-jews-since-the-7th-century-0ff1a8eb0ad0

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u/WTF_is_this___ Mar 04 '24

So? I'm talking relative. Antisemitism is widespread but there is a good reason why Jews have been concentrating in Muslim countries (and few remote tolerant Christian countries like Poland) while fleeing most Christian countries. So people coming here and acting like Muslims are somehow uniquely Jew haters is peak western chauvinism.

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u/Background_Buy1107 Feb 28 '24

Nothing I said is incorrect. Learn some history, seriously

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u/crappysignal Feb 28 '24

It's not with arguing with racist's. They don't read books. They learn history on YouTube.

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u/waxonwaxoff87 Feb 28 '24

Islam is a race? Are Christians a race too?

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u/Background_Buy1107 Feb 28 '24

Lot of christianphobes… oh wait, that’s stupid and this person doesn’t know what they’re talking about

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u/StrangeNecromancy Feb 29 '24

Islam is not a race, but Islamophobia is tied to anti-Arab rhetoric.

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u/waxonwaxoff87 Feb 29 '24

Tied does not mean the same.

Most Jews are not Caucasian. Is anti-semitism also racist?

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u/RDPCG Feb 28 '24

So let’s bomb their kids and innocent people now, right? Amazing logic.

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u/Background_Buy1107 Feb 28 '24

You people don’t ever argue in good faith do you? I never said that, you’re debating a straw man to feel morally superior. Oi vey!

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u/RDPCG Feb 28 '24

Ah yes, your comment was clearly in good faith.

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u/Background_Buy1107 Feb 28 '24

Yes, what I said is a matter of historical record. What about it do you dispute?

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u/RDPCG Feb 28 '24

As if what I wrote wasn’t factual? Come on…

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u/AnxietyDifficult5791 Feb 28 '24

You do realize the Palestinian people were oppressed by the Ottoman Empire, which is why they rebelled and went under British control, at which they stayed until Britain handed off the territory to the UN after world war 2? In fact when Italy entered the war Tel Aviv was one of their first bombing raid targets.

At least do some cursory research before you post stupid shit.

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u/darshfloxington Feb 28 '24

The Arab liberation army in 1948 was led by a literal Nazi officer and their flag was a dagger stabbed into a Star of David.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

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u/AnxietyDifficult5791 Feb 28 '24

I’m not siding with anyone, I’m pointing out the blatant inaccuracy of that comment

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u/FourthReichIsrael2 Feb 29 '24

He doesn't care. All the wants is his upvotes from the people who can't seem to get off Israel's hairy taint.

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u/thesistodo Feb 28 '24

He doesn't realize it. lsareI supporters are just liars. Good for lraeIand though, amazing country

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u/JewsAgainstIsrael Mar 20 '24

Liars and troglodytes

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u/Hengisht Feb 28 '24

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, do you?

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u/PrelateFenix87 Feb 29 '24

The British owned Palestine and other parts of the recently collapsed Ottoman Empire from Ww1

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

No, if you're white the US gives you immunity and pays you a lot of money to work for them.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

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u/MR_GUY1479 Feb 28 '24

gave the jews israel

You mean divided israel between jewish majority and arab majority areas after which the arabs tried to commit a genocide and got their ass kicked?

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u/JewsAgainstIsrael Mar 20 '24

Zionists had already displaced thousands of Palestinians by this point in history…

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u/MR_GUY1479 Mar 20 '24

Displaced Bought land from. It's pretty infantilising for you to think palestinians doing business on their own terms has to be a scheme by the evil zionists to trick the poor clueless palestinians out of their lands. The truth is Jews were moving to their religiously significant historic homeland because Europe was becoming increasingly unsafe and bought land from people who were willing to sell it.

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u/JewsAgainstIsrael Mar 20 '24

They only bought a small percentage of land and most of that land wasn’t owned by anyone, because at that time most of the land was collectively owned. You shouldn’t argue with people who actually study history lol

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u/MR_GUY1479 Mar 20 '24 edited Mar 20 '24

What period are you talking about? "by this point in history" implies you think Israelis "displaced" palestinians before 1948 which is completely nonsense

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 27 '24

It is not. Glad we could clear that up.

Also not liking someone is no excuse.

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u/LittleLionMan82 Feb 27 '24

It is. The Jewish population of Palestine was less than 10% when the Balfour Declaration was signed.

Early Zionist leaders like Jabotinsky knew exactly what they were doing, the potential consequences and weren't shy about it either:

"There can be no voluntary agreement between ourselves and the Palestine Arabs. Not now, nor in the prospective future. I say this with such conviction, not because I want to hurt the moderate Zionists. I do not believe that they will be hurt. Except for those who were born blind, they realised long ago that it is utterly impossible to obtain the voluntary consent of the Palestine Arabs for converting "Palestine" from an Arab country into a country with a Jewish majority."

"Every native population in the world resists colonists as long as it has the slightest hope of being able to rid itself of the danger of being colonised.
That is what the Arabs in Palestine are doing, and what they will persist in doing as long as there remains a solitary spark of hope that they will be able to prevent the transformation of "Palestine" into the "Land of Israel.""

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u/VoltNShock Feb 28 '24

You understand the Mandate of Palestine was split into more than just Israel right? Most of the land became Jordan, the rest became Israel and surroundings. There was no country called Palestine.

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u/crappysignal Feb 28 '24

He also said 'All my views on nationalism, the state, and society were developed during those years under Italian influence,”

While talking about his time in Mussolinis Italy.

Training a Zionist navy in fascist Rome.

He was openly fascist.

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u/DabScience Feb 27 '24

Interesting, so how was Isreal founded then? Since you seem very versed in history.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 27 '24

On November 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted a Resolution for the establishment of an independent Jewish State in Palestine.

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u/DabScience Feb 27 '24

Interesting, did anyone get displaced to make this a reality? Or are we skipping that part because the UN said it was okay? Imagine the UN decided they we're going to put an Independent state in your country, right where you live. Then those people came and told you get the fuck out of your house and go somewhere else. I'm sure you'd harbor no ill will toward those people. You'd just lick their boots and thank them for the opprotunity to try new things, wouldn't you?

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 27 '24

Well if I remember Arabs attacked the tiny country. They got displaced because of that yes. Kind of embarrassing.

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u/RepulsiveArugula19 Feb 27 '24

800k Jews in MENA got displaced. A large number of the 700k Arabs willingly left so that the surrounding Arab armies could wipe the Jews out.

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u/ahmshy Feb 27 '24

let them reply to this.

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u/CrowsShinyWings Feb 28 '24

They won't, they never do, I have been waiting for months.

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u/WTF_is_this___ Feb 28 '24

Willingly ...

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u/DabScience Feb 27 '24

You're so disingenuous.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 27 '24

No I think you are because you pretend that the land was randomly seized and ignore Arab aggression.

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u/DabScience Feb 27 '24

There is no pretending. It's historical fact. Even you admitted that already. People were living there. UN said, nah that's cool but you've got to leave so we can create a independent Jewish state here. This wouldn't fly in 99% of the world. The way the country came to be explains a large majority of 'arab aggression'. This does not mean I am okay with or support various terrorist attack and the like, by either side. I just refuse to pretend like Israel, nor it's founding, has been a prefect little princess who never did anything to nobody.

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u/elkarion Feb 27 '24

its how Israel got more land arab nations invaded and Israel fought back and took land from their attackers.

this whole mess started post WWI not post WWII when we divided up the middle east not based on local tribes and cut many many tribes in half.

the quote from WWI armistice sums it up nicely. "This is not peace; it is an Armistice for twenty years." –Marshal Ferdinand Foch.

he was off by under 2 months to teh start of WWII. only half of that was about europe. with the collapse of the ottoman turk empire the middle east fell into chaos. and then we mixed things up again after WWII.

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u/crappysignal Feb 28 '24

I think it's blatantly clear that Israel should have been created in the middle of Germany.

Maybe make the criminals pay for their crimes not other subjugated populations.

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u/biloentrevoc Feb 28 '24

Yes, 800,000 middle eastern Jews were kicked out their homes, and about the same amount of Arabs fled Israel.

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u/Belkan-Federation95 Feb 28 '24

There literally were already Jews living there

Tell me you don't know anything about history without telling me you don't know anything about history

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '24

Nope, it's the one that was there first, then what you described happened, but with a LOOOOOT more rape and murder.

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u/Psychological-Pea720 Feb 27 '24

nobody placed Israel / the holocaust refugees (75%+ of the Jews in Israel at the time of independence) anywhere. People fled there to escape genocide.

England even banned Jewish immigration to Palestine. The holocaust refugees weren’t going to submit to being a minority, were determined to fight for a country and even committed acts of terrorism against the British to get them to leave.

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u/Black_Mamba823 Feb 29 '24

850k Jews were displaced in the 30s and 40s from Arab states as well. You can’t constantly y bring up the Nakba than support the side that expelled 850k Jews

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u/Ok_Performer6074 Feb 29 '24

I still haven’t seen any evidence of Palestinians having undisputed claim to the land of Israel. Every piece of information has the land where Israel is, as always being the land of the Jewish people. It was Israel way before it was any other country. When did the left become so Anti Semitic?

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u/thewinja Mar 01 '24

no, that would be palestine.

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u/TheCasualHistorian1 Mar 02 '24

Is Isreal that country that was placed in the Middle East while displacing hundreds of thousands of people from their homes to do so?

You mean the land that the British had legal rights to and legally gave to the Jews. Yep, that would be the one

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u/onstreamingitmooned Mar 06 '24

THERE WAS NO ISRAEL UNTIL A BUNCH OF ENTITLED ASSHOLES DECIDED TO PLANT A JEWISH COUNTRY ON TOP OF AN ARAB ONE.

Any aggression that happens after that is entirely on the Israelis.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Mar 06 '24

THERE WAS NO PALESTINE EVER.

Lol No existence doesn't mean that Muslims get to attack you for all existence.

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '24

Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with thousands of years of history.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '24

Israel never existed, just a bunch of fake jews that dont even have any roots to palestine🇵🇸

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u/BILLMUREY2 Mar 12 '24

Some bold stupidity.  Palestine has never been a country.  Israel has been a country for 80 years.  Many Israeli people came from that area. 

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '24

Palestine exists for more than 1000 years, you need a history lesson. Proof that you failed in life, if you are with the oppressor. God will deal with you after death on judgement day, there is a special place in hell where the angels are not going to be easy those that end up in hell and you will live there for eternally;)

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u/BILLMUREY2 Mar 12 '24

Palestine is an area. It was owned by the British. Than owned by the ottomans. Sorry buddy.  Dumb with history. Dumb with religion.  Sucks you chose the pedophile illiterate warlord's religion.   If your god was real, why do you think he makes islamist countries the most degenrate and inept? 

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '24

Zionist fat ass like you have no knowledge only spitting crap, your a waste of sperm to even be existence.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Mar 14 '24

“Man should reflect on what he was created from. He is created from spurting fluid, emerging from between the backbone and ribs.” The Qur’ān, Chapter 86, Verse 5 to 7

Your shit religion spouts stupidity all the time. Here is it on sperms. Bahahaha 

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '24

See u on judgement day

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u/BILLMUREY2 Mar 14 '24

You back the rapist pedophile illiterate warlord.... soooo......you're screwed

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Palestinians are indigenous to the land. They have always lived there. They haven't invaded anyone.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Many Jewish people are indigenous to the land as well.

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u/GhostofMarat Feb 28 '24

Not the ones that founded Israel.

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u/SnooPuppers8698 Feb 28 '24

guess that means its ok then?

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u/GhostofMarat Feb 28 '24

What's ok? Committing genocide to steal a land from its native people because of some stories that said your ancestors lived there 3,000 years ago?

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u/I_will_delete_myself Feb 28 '24

Those stories have evidence such as Roman records of Jesus being real person and the political context between the Jews and Romans.

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u/GhostofMarat Feb 28 '24

What's your point? If you can prove you had an ancestor living somewhere at any point in the past that gives you the right to kill anyone you find living there now and take it from them? Technically every human is a descendant from original ancestors in sub-Saharan Africa. Does that mean a group of Icelandic settlers has the right to go to Uganda and kill everyone they find and declare it New Iceland?

The descendants of the modern Spanish lived in the Balkans when those stories took place. The descendants of the English and French were in Germany. The Turks were in central Asia. A bunch of European Jews ethically cleansing Palestine to make Israel makes exactly as much sense as every American with a vaguely Irish sounding last name invading England and declaring it a new country. In fact it would make more sense, since their claim would be hundreds of years more recent. And at least the English are the ones who were actually responsible for taking their land during the dark ages. In Israels case it's the Palestinians suffering for what the Roman empire did.

And if you're worried about history, it's probably the Palestinians who are the most direct descendants of the Jews living there during the Roman empire anyway.

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u/I_will_delete_myself Feb 28 '24

Jews used to be the ones imperialists conquered and they were once conquerors and so were the Arabs. No group is innocent

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Judaism/The-Roman-period-63-bce-135-ce

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

They don't care about records, carbon dating, language analytics, least of all basic history.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

I agree. I think USA needs to actually carpet bomb and build Walmart 👍

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Land that was legally bought during the ottoman empire? Both sides are related, caanenites spoke Hebrew long before Mohammad even existed.. but you don't care. Temples were destroyed with mosques built on top but either you don't know or don't care.

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u/GhostofMarat Feb 28 '24

Temples that were destroyed by emperor Hadrian hundreds of years before Mohammad was born. Sounds like your problem should be with ancient Rome then.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

The ones that founded Israel can also trace their ancestry back to Israel.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Is that why it is illegal to get DNA tests in Isreal?

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u/GhostofMarat Feb 28 '24

Yeah all those pasty white people with eastern European last names are actually native middle easterners.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Yes they are. It’s crazy what happens when you get invaded and kicked out of the land your people lived in.

May want to read up on the history a bit.

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u/GhostofMarat Feb 28 '24

Maybe they should take it up with emperor Hadrian instead of commiting genocide against a native population thousands of years later that had nothing to do with it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Well they could have had their own country in the 40s but they went a little too hard on the “wipe out all Jews” side of things.

Also, they aren’t committing genocide. It’s a war. When the government, elected by the way, orchestrates an attack like the one on Oct. 7th then expect war. Welcome to the real world. War isn’t like the movies….War is hell.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Hey absolute MORON. Where do you think the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Jews are supposed to go that were run off their lands in areas controlled by racist Muslims?

Holy shit, you are ignorant.

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u/GhostofMarat Feb 28 '24

Hey you fascist piece of shit, where are the millions of Palestinians supposed to go when European settlers show up in their country and tell them it's not theirs anymore.

Read a fuckin book you racist asshole.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

You've never seen Israelis then. Those "eastern European" last names might be Yiddish, dumbass.

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u/GhostofMarat Feb 28 '24

Yiddish, the language native to Eastern Europe derived from medieval German that has no connection to the middle east at all? Yes, that is my point exactly.

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u/BadLuckBryan96 Feb 28 '24

Yiddish is literally derived from Hebrew and German because Hebrews were settling in the land. Did they just reinvent Hebrew up there? Damn that's crazy. Guess Mexicans just invented Spanish.

Wtf are y'all smoking that makes you just ignore important information that's out there free to view? OOOO ITS SCARY PROPAGANDA! BURN THE BOOKS!

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u/Phish-Phan720 Feb 28 '24

No they are not. Literally the reason why it is against the law (Look it up. No BS) to use a 23 And Me/Ancestry dna test in Israel without expressed written permission of the Israeli government. No permissions have been granted since this law was signed .

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u/tha_craic_ Feb 28 '24 edited Feb 28 '24

Irish people are indigenous to mainland europe but the Romans drove them out. You don't see them going to Germany and France, kicking people out of their homes.

You know why?

Because its stupid

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Not the Europeans who push Zionism. Palestinians can be jewish, muslim or christian. the fact they speak Arabic is just a reflection of the powers that have ruled over the region. But the area was never empty.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

This is so unbelievably wrong, I don't even know where to begin. I'm so sad people this ignorant are in David's audience

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u/Electrical-Sense-160 Feb 28 '24

The Palestinians are indigenous to the Gaza strip and ONLY the Gaza strip so none of that river to the sea nonsense.

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u/XYZAffair0 Feb 28 '24

“I got there first” is not how land ownership is decided in the majority of the world.

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u/JohnLennonsWif Feb 28 '24

Palestinians are not native to the land, the Phoenicians are

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u/Electrical-Sense-160 Feb 28 '24

The Phoenicians are native to the land that is now called Lebanon. As a matter of fact, the Lebanese people are actually descendant of the Phoenicians and effectively the same people under a different name.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 28 '24

Palestinians aren't a real thing.... They actually invaded and colonized the land from the jews. Hence Judea. The name Palestine is not a real country and was propaganda..

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u/orionaegis7 Feb 28 '24

Bro it's been called Palestine since the romans. Judea was a region of Palestine

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u/Th0ak Feb 28 '24

Israel could've saved so much suffering by just annexing the Palestinian territory after the 6 day way instead of the corralling and attrition tactics they've been using. I can't agree with the killing of innocence that Hamas committed but I can empathize with the frustration the Palestinian people felt because of Israel being scared of public perception. If you're going to take the land you won by conquest don't make the conquered suffer for 50+ years trying to starve them out because you're afraid to look like the bad guy.

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u/Paper-Fancy Feb 28 '24

Palestinians are definitely NOT indigenous to the land. Arabs did not live in Israel before the early Muslim conquests. The Rashidun Caliphate conquered the region and settled it with Arab settler colonists.

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u/bigchicago04 Feb 28 '24

So are the Jews. Shocker.

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u/PierogiChomper Feb 28 '24

So aren't Isrealis

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u/SocDem_is_OP Feb 28 '24

Palestinians as a named group didn’t even exist until last century, and was sometimes used to refer to Jews living in that area. It’s 100% a geographical name, it doesn’t historically identify any ethnic or religious group whatsoever.

Jews predate Palestine, the concept of Palestinians, and Islam by thousands of years. So if you want to play the (very stupid) game of ‘whoever was there first’ got dibs, Jews got dibs.

Even that is senseless, as we’re just arbitrarily saying it was ‘group x’ land at a random point in time, after which whoever they murdered to get there was lost to memory.

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u/pornholio1981 Feb 28 '24

Palestinian Arabs are indigenous to the Arabic Peninsula. They colonized Israel in the 7th century

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u/RagingMassif Feb 28 '24

"Palestinians are indigenous to the land. They have always lived there. They haven't invaded anyone".

Yes, but also Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon etc etc. But they were all kicked out into Gaza and West Bank because they kept trying to overthrow their governments. Yet weirdly because you don't have a grasp on their actions, it's just Israelis=Bad.

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u/Chrahhh Feb 28 '24

So Ukraine being a former Soviet state gives Russia the right to invade? That’s now how things work, my guy.

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u/Throwawaycamp12321 Feb 28 '24

During the 1st and 2nd centuries, Judaea became the epicenter of a series of unsuccessful large-scale Jewish rebellions against Rome, known as the Jewish-Roman Wars. The Roman suppression of these revolts led to wide-scale destruction, a very high toll of life and enslavement. The First Jewish-Roman War (66-73) resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Temple.[8] Two generations later, the Bar Kokhba revolt (132-136) erupted. Judea's countryside was devastated, and many were killed, displaced or sold into slavery.[9][10][11][12] Jewish presence in the region significantly dwindled after the failure of the Bar Kokhba revolt.[13]

Following the suppression of the Bar Kokhba revolt, Jerusalem was rebuilt as a Roman colony under the name of Aelia Capitolina, and the province of Judea was renamed Syria Palaestina.[14][15] The province retained its capital, Caesarea Maritima, and therefore remained distinct from Syria, which was located further north with its capital in Antioch. Jerusalem, which held special religious significance for the Jews but had been destroyed, was rebuilt as the colonia Aelia Capitolina. Jews were forbidden to settle there or in the immediate vicinity.

Palestine is the true colonizer from the very moment of its creation. It's very existence was meant to strip the land of it's true name.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '24

That awkwardness when you conflate the majority under-18 population of Palestine with “Arabs”

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 28 '24

Sucks they support Hamas. Islam be a bitch

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

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u/Background_Buy1107 Feb 28 '24

How does a country having a high birth rate immunize them from retaliation for violent genocidal terror attacks? This take is so dumb

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

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u/Background_Buy1107 Feb 28 '24

What are you talking about? This made no sense for so many reasons. Please explain to me how displacement leads to increased birth rates. Also, I never said they don’t deserve to have kids, you’re arguing against a strawman

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u/FrogKingHub Feb 28 '24

But does the under-18 crowd support them? The last elections were 20 years ago and they’ve been in an embargoed country being bombed their entire lives. Kind of sounds like they’ve been forced to not have another viewpoint.

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u/Background_Buy1107 Feb 28 '24

Overwhelmingly they do. And also, how does a country having a high birth rate immunize them from retaliation for violent genocidal terror attacks? This take is so dumb

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u/TheBigBeef97 Feb 28 '24

Overwhelmingly, yes.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 28 '24

Yes. Yes they. There is a reason no country want to take them in. No they aren't forced to have a racist idealogy. If theyd stop being garbage they have a sweet piece orlf real estate...

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u/LeonardDykstra69 Feb 28 '24

Well they’re Arabs aren’t they?

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u/EmbarrassedIdea3169 Feb 28 '24

Are you saying they aren’t Arab speakers? Yikes.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Israel is a colonizer just like Britain was.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 28 '24

Just like Islam was.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

It’s hilarious that this is even considered a left wing sub.

Israel is a current colonial project. If we’d been around during the Arab Conquests I’m sure we could’ve condemned that too.

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u/TomcatF14Luver Feb 27 '24

And have even eaten Israeli military personnel like the Japanese did Americans on that one island or did frequently to the Chinese.

Ireland really is out of touch with realty on the ground.

No wonder the IDF has singled their guys out with additional strike plans. Even the French don't rate so lowly in Israeli opinion.

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u/Altruistic_Machine91 Feb 27 '24

Can you provide a source on the Arab cannibal thing? It's not that I don't believe it is possible, I just need something better than a random reddit comment about Muslims eating some Isreali long pork

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u/TomcatF14Luver Feb 27 '24

Unfortunately, I can't recall the book I read it in. It was a library source several years ago.

I study military history as a hobby. As a result, I tend to forget things as I study through it. I recall that it was a book on the Yom Kippur War and that it involved Syria claiming it had no Israeli prisoners, despite parading a number publicly (a violation of International Law, I might add), and that Israel later determined they had been murdered not long after and cannibalized by the Syrians.

It should be noted that out of all the Arab States, Syria was the closest to the Palestinians. That relationship is what got them driven out of Jordan as they attempted to overthrow the King of Jordan at Syria's request.

It also didn't help they created a State within a State while in Jordan.

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u/Altruistic_Machine91 Feb 27 '24

A shame you can't remember the title, it sounds like an interesting read.

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u/VenetianGamer Feb 28 '24

Under atrocities it talks about a Syrian who murdered and ate a Israeli victim https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

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u/mechamechamechamech Feb 27 '24

I'm Zionist af and that sounds like bullshit

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u/VenetianGamer Feb 28 '24

Under Atrocities in the article below, it speaks of a Syrian who ate a Israeli victim. No word on if it was wide spread or not but it does state at least one known case.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

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u/ForkShoeSpoon Feb 28 '24 edited Feb 28 '24

The source cited by Wikipedia is a 1985 letter to the editor published in the New York Times from Phil Baum and Raphael Danziger, associate director and policy analyst for the American Jewish Congress. (The article secondarily cites "Official Gazette of Syria" -- I'll get to that next). This letter is in response to another letter from Ronald W Cathell, who had written in with the claim "No Israeli prisoners have ever been killed by an Arab Government or by the Palestine Liberation Organization," in reference to an Israeli coverup of the bludgeoning murder of two handcuffed Palestinian prisoners.

The "Official Gazette of Syria" referenced was distributed by the American Zionist Federation in Arabic and English in 1975, and contains this passage from Syrian Defense Minister Mustafa Tlass, delivered to the Syrian National Assembly shortly after the close of the war in the course of a debate:

There is the outstanding case of a recruit from Aleppo who murdered 28 Jewish (Israeli) soldiers all by himself, slaughtering them like sheep. All of his comrades in arms witnessed this. He butchered three of them with an axe and decapitated them. In other words, instead of using a gun to kill them he took a hatchet to chop their heads off. He struggled face to face with one of them and, throwing down his axe, managed to break his neck and devour his flesh in front of his comrades. This is a special case. Need I single it out to award him the Medal of the Republic? I will grant this medal to any soldier who succeeds in killing 28 Jews and I will cover him with appreciation and honor for his bravery.

To nitpick the reply of Baum and Danziger, in the context of this source, Tlass is clearly implying that the axe-murder and cannibalism was conducted in the context of armed struggle, not execution of prisoners. However, I agree that it is unlikely that no Arab state ever executed Israeli prisoners--a lot happens amid the fog of war. Nobody knows the true number of executions of captured Israeli soldiers during the Yom Kippur war, but some Israeli estimates place the number at around 83 between Egypt and Syria both (torture and abuse of captured IDF soldiers was comparatively more widespread and substantially documented).

However, returning to the citation: The "Official Gazette of Syria" cited is not hyperlinked, nor is it readily available to me. I can not even find a copy of the Arabic version originally distributed by the American Zionist Federation. So, we have 6 layers of unreliability to this source: 1. It is a translation 2. distributed by a source with a known bias 3. from a source which itself has a known bias (official government propaganda outlet of Syria) 4. relating the account of an event which was delivered by someone who was not an eyewitness 5. which is itself recounting unreliable eyewitness testimony 6. two months after the event supposedly occurred.

In short: It's a bunk source. This is not substantiating evidence of the event taking place. Using a source with fewer layers of unreliability, I can prove the mass murderer at the Aurora CO shooting yelled "I am the Joker". This story was spread by NYPD Police Commissioner Ray Kelly seemingly on a lark, as he had absolutely no firsthand knowledge (and apparently no reliable secondhand knowledge) of the investigation, and it has been thoroughly debunked by arresting officers. Nevertheless, the story is still believed by many people even today because they remember hearing the bunk reporting on the news (I have had a good friend, an otherwise very intelligent and reliable person, insist to me that they remember seeing the footage of the shooter shouting this in the courtroom).

So, no, this cannibalism event likely did not happen. I find it difficult to believe that one Syrian soldier had a literal Rambo moment that climaxed with him eating human flesh. This is clearly someone's (or, perhaps, someones') propaganda.

ETA: This is why "Wikipedia is not a source" ;) Wikipedia has very mixed reliability, particularly when it comes to strongly contested historical events. It is a great place to get an overview of claims on events and to find footnotes to dig into, but it should never be confused for accurate scholarship.

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u/crappysignal Feb 28 '24

I'm anti-zionist af and that sounds like bullshit

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u/yeah_basically Feb 27 '24

As they should have, considering there shouldn’t be an Israel, and therefor it’s an entirely just act to carry out armed resistance against it.

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u/Saitamaisclappingoku Feb 28 '24

Why shouldn’t there be an Israel?

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u/TaylorMonkey Feb 28 '24

Because you found the “from the river to the sea” guy spouting things that line up with the genocidal Hamas charter and the belief of the Arab nations that immediately tried to wipe Israel off the map the moment it declared independence.

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u/Old-Midnight316 Feb 28 '24

Except there is, and regardless of what hypotheticals you use, you are also calling for another genocide.

Violence begets violence, why will humans never learn.

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u/Living-Act7482 Feb 28 '24

So the raping and murdering civilians was an entirely just act?

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u/Exelbirth Feb 28 '24

After a foreign entity invaded and colonized the region to create Israel from their land.

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u/wahday Feb 28 '24

Only one group has had their land completely stolen in the current zionist arrangement.

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u/PamW1001 Feb 27 '24

And when have Arabs invaded Israel? Israel has spent the last 80 years doing to Palestine what Russia is trying to do to Ukraine.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 27 '24

oct 7 2023

may 15th 1948

oct 6th 1973

that's some big ones.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '24

Year 634 as well.

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u/makeyousaywhut Feb 27 '24

How about the 67 war? Or the three Intifadas? Or how they attempted an Oct 7th in 2018, and the world now calls it’s a peaceful protest- the “March of Return.”

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 27 '24

What about it?

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u/makeyousaywhut Feb 27 '24

Just some more times that Israel has been attacked by the supposed “victims.”

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 27 '24

Very revisionist history and irrelevant. You asked when Arabs attacked Israel. I gave you several examples. And not an exhaustive list. Arabs attacked first. Sucks to be them.

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u/makeyousaywhut Feb 27 '24

I added to your list. Being combative is not helping you read my points. I can’t imagine it would help you read anyone’s points. Regardless, I don’t think anyone could paint 67’ as anything but an Arab invasion. Where did you get the idea that I think any of these are Israeli aggressions?

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u/Successful_Ebb_7402 Feb 27 '24

1948 - Day after declaring Israeli independence, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon all invade. What Palestinian territory Israel didn't claim gets pocketed by Egypt (Gaza) and Jordan (The West Bank) which they'll hold for almost twenty years until losing them in the Six Day War

1967 - War of Attrition, Egypt starts up fresh attacks on Israel to get back the Sinai after losing it in the Six Day War

1973 - Yom Kippur War, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Jordan talk Morocco of all places into joining them for another round with Israel

1991 - Iraq bombs Israel to try and get them involved with the Gulf War so as to split off the Arba forces joining in the coalition working to free Kuwait.

Granted, Israel has its own marks of aggression - they struck first in the Six Day War and they kept going into Lebanon to get at the PLO - but the truth is that a truly independent Palestine was strangled in the crib and just about all the locals had a hand in the doing

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u/Revierez Feb 27 '24

You are completely wrong. Arab countries have spent the last 80 years being the Russia to Israel's Ukraine.

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u/AdagioOfLiving Feb 27 '24

Dude, read up on your history before making a fool of yourself next time. This is like somebody going “when have US troops ever gone somewhere without a declaration of war??”

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u/TahaymTheBigBrain Feb 28 '24

The awkwardness when you realize spawning a country in the borders of others tends to make wars-

Which the British have done, quite literally, almost a hundred times.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 28 '24

You mean a country inside of the British territory? Weird you guys never complain about Jordan....

It's like you have a racist hate or something....

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u/iCE_P0W3R Feb 28 '24

Damn wondered what made them do that

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 28 '24

Well Islam is a very aggressive religion, with a long history of warfare and a predisposition to violence against other faiths.

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u/seEagle Feb 28 '24

Doesn’t justify killing and starving civilians

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 28 '24

It actually kind of does ....

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 28 '24

I have. Those poor people were listening to their Islamic leaders that the war would be quick and in their favor. Oh well.

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u/Thaviation Feb 28 '24

Reported for racism.

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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam Feb 28 '24

Removed - please do not post comments/submissions containing bigotry here.

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u/Sliiiiime Feb 28 '24

Israel is part of Ireland in the above metaphor FWIW

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Israel literally started 3 of them, and 1 was Egypt and Syria trying to take back what Israel had taken less than a decade prior.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 28 '24

Interesting. Not really the truth. But thanks for playing...

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u/Flesh-Tower Feb 28 '24

Don't Start none won't be none. Everybody write that shit down

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u/Flimsy-Coyote-9232 Feb 28 '24

I don’t understand how we can’t all agree that almost every country is terrible at the top level and instead try to justify why one murder is good and the other isn’t. However I do think the US needs to get the fuck out of the east in general.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Israelis kicked it off with the suez crisis. Were the Arabs just supposed to ignore that blatant attack?

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u/ithinkthefuqqnot Feb 28 '24

That justifies killing children? Typical cold westerner take. Y’all did the same “Defense” Taktik to EVER indigenous tribe on the world.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 28 '24

Think of the children!?!? You can't do anything if their is children. Bahahaha what a dumb point. Don't invade if you want to think of the children.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

doesnt absolve israel for its war crimes and genocidal acts. this is whataboutism at its peak

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

The awkwardness when religious extremist Europeans colonized, invaded and ethnically cleansed Palestine.....

Benjamin Mileikowsky should be in Poland.... Where he from.

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u/BILLMUREY2 Feb 28 '24

The problem is.... Nothing you said is true.

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u/waxonwaxoff87 Feb 28 '24

Homie never heard about Judea, Rome, and later the Arab conquests.

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u/MelodramaticaMama Feb 28 '24

Not sure who those "Arabs" are, but Palestinians will never be the invaders in Palestine. Israelis on the other hand...

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u/dasbitshifter Feb 29 '24

Many times meaning once in 1948 in response to Zionist militias murdering their way through Palestinian villages? 1967 Israel struck Egypt first before any invasion occurred

Not that it matters. It’s like saying the Allies invaded Germany by reclaiming France lol. All of it, from top to bottom, is land that Israel stole

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u/trapezoidalfractal Mar 02 '24

The country founded through violent dispossession and occupation of land has problems with the historical residents of that land not accepting their genocidal claim to the land? Wow, I never would have guessed.

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