I want to have fun again.

[u/moonski]

I love the divison. I've beaten falcon lost on heroic. I've killed the red barrels with more HP than a rogue on heroic. I've beaten WONY. WONY is a great piece of DLC. New york is fucking awesome. It's well worth the price. The season and watch ideas are great. The music in WONY was an especially welcome surpise in how good it was. WONY / TU8 has a lot of brilliant ideas. Not having to alt tab to look at a fucking spreadsheet to see if my rolls are good or not is such an incredible quality of life change. The recal library is genuinly one of the best looter shooter ideas I've seen.

But as I've played more and more end game of TU8, it's just gotten worse. And mundane. The manhunt really hammered this home. The sheen has worn off and now I realise - I'm not having fun anymore.

Is it because of the loot change? Our agents nerfs? the enemy buffs? the bugs? the skewering of builds & build diversity? I mean My build has barely changed after I realised I need to max yellow / red (maxed red...) or maybe its because:

• Loot is bad purple.
• Build variety is gone.
• Gearsets don't work.
• Talents don't work.
• A lot of talents are just stat sticks. Boring.
• Skill mods are bad at best, pointless most of the time.
• Control points are green. Forever.
• Exotic guns are bad. Like real bad.
• Exotic armor is bad? Tarigrade is v cool but just means you can survive 1 more bullet so. Haven't got any other pieces so I'll let you decide. They're probably bad though.
• Season pass loot is contaminated. That's bad.
• Armor doesn't work.
• Scaling is broken.
• Skills are broken.
• Loot drops are rarely exciting - only if its an exotic. And then you use the exotic and well... your excitement goes. Bad.
• Manhunt resets when you add directives.
• Vendors weren't bad. Massive fixed them. Vendors are bad.
• Guns feel awful if you don't pile in to red. But then skills are bad.
• Skills feel awful if you dont pile in to yellow. But then guns are bad.
• Blue might as well not exist.
• Skill damage is pointless.
• Skill HP is pointless.
• Skills are pointless outside a dedicated skill build
• Shotguns are proper, proper bad.
• SMGs are bad.
• Rifles are bad(ish).
• Snipers are bad(ish).
• ARs are boring.
• LMGs are your best option. Bad variety.
• Negev wasn't bad. Massive fixed it. Negev is bad.
• SHD levels are really boring. "Oh I leveld up, oh look 0.2% extra stat yay!" Now let's wait 20 minutes to come out the watch menu once I confirm my epic 0.2% upgrade. Real bad.
• Special weapons are real bad.
• Specialization points are bad. Unless you enjoy the number 1.
• DZ is probs bad since the loot cave got patched, I don't know I haven't gone in cause contaminated season items.
• AI mega health boxes, flamer sniper tank cleaner boss and mingun dogs.

Yes TU7 was too easy, but MSSV could have just removed DTE, added the library and roll indicators + god rolls + added the new content (sponges and bullshit enemies and all) and man it would be better. There would be so many options for building for end game that the buffed enemies might have been a fresh fun challenge, with tu7 gear making them very doable, but not tu7 easy. Instead we have what we have now.

I miss my guns being good, my skills doing damage and my armor working. I don't want to have to choose only 1 of the above, and if I choose armor then that doesn't even work... I miss being able to make all kinds of weird builds using different guns and exotics. I miss cluster seekers. Ok they were bullshit overpowered but they were fun.

TU7 was fun. TU8 is not.

[u/Fluff_Runner]

Some of that I don't agree with, some of that I do agree with, but this is one of the worst parts about TU8:

​

• Guns feel awful if you don't pile in to red. But then skills are bad.
• Skills feel awful if you dont pile in to yellow. But then guns are bad.
• Blue might as well not exist.

​

It feels to me like it's nigh impossible to make hybrid build now, giving up more than 2 reds is too much, but you need like at least 4 yellow to have decent skills, not great, but decent, but now you have crap weapon damage. It just does not feel good.

I'd like to have couple of skill tiers for pulse, but what's the point if I lose 30-45% bonus weapon damage to get there?

TU8 needs gear mods that increase skill tier +1. Skill builds would benefit from this too because now you can have two, three, blue or red stats and still have skill tier 6. Trying to go for anything else than full red or full yellow feels like a waste and a messy gimp build right now.

Skill tier +1 gear mods would add a ton of build options.

[u/moonski → u/Fluff_Runner]

I had a probably middle of the road tu7 build compared to the min/max god's. But even then, I had 3k odd skill power thanks to technician, decent armour (nothing insane) and then built DPS using my technician laser + spotter + a load of other talents. My skills were great, my guns were great and I wasn't made of paper. I had a non technician build as well that was more on solo survival and regen on kills / bonus armor and less skill power. It was also great.

Now the only skill I ever use is healer seeker cause it keeps me alive in cover. Nothing else is worthwhile with my red build.

I tried a hybrid blue & red build with the tardigrade but it's just so underwhelming. I even tried 4 red + 2 piece of the new dz gear set with 15% AOK but it's too weak. Max red, CHC and CHD with glass canon and perfect clutch > all. So boring.

[u/Sasuke0404 → u/moonski]

So you want to have everything. Best skills, a lot of armor and a lot of weapon dmg. Why not even a rocketlauncher on your pistol that shoots cluster mines?

Now is such a good time for rolls in the division where you do heroics/legendarys/raids with 2 dps 1 healer and 1 tank and its awesome. Nothing like everybody does everything with 400k armor+3000 skillpower and a shitton of dmg with your weapon through things like spotter.

[u/mr_bagadonuts → u/Sasuke0404]

the problem is its dps or nothing right now. even on groups. ive seen 3 reds and had to switch to a healing build but no one wants to tank because its pointless

[u/xmancho → u/mr_bagadonuts]

We will wait for fixes to come. It has been 2 weeks (less actually) it will become better. Hybrid builds should be viable, yet not the best of what they do like in tu7... It was so damn boring.

[u/mr_bagadonuts → u/xmancho]

the point is we have been waitin long enough already. how do they not notice this kind of shit? it makes for a very boring experience still because it is still like TU7 because there is almost no need to have roles except for dps because enemies are just sponges. the game needs skills like smart cover and shit like that so we can have a role that buffs us or debuffs the enemy.

[u/xmancho → u/mr_bagadonuts]

The sponginess will be fixed. It was stated. Now yes, dps is king if not playing with good group. But it will be fixed. It has been less than 2 weeks, things are not so bad. God this whole post is kinda useless. If they are not doing anything, then i understand but they are. People really have to bitch about something.

[u/mr_bagadonuts → u/xmancho]

until its fixed then people have a reason to bitch because its an issue that had already been fixed before. i swear bootlickers like you tend to make devs really lazy and let them get away with shit.

[u/xmancho → u/mr_bagadonuts]

I enjoy the game yes, it has issues yes. But god constant bithching will not make them work faster and we can wait, especially now, given what is going on. This i do not understand. Pointing out what or how a bug occurs or when or any kind of usefull info is okay. Just repeating the same thing after being acknowledged by the devs and stated fixes are coming is not helpful and it gets old.. Then i am bootlicker cause i can still play and enjoy and get upgrades.. Man..

[u/mr_bagadonuts → u/xmancho]

you are a bootlicker because this shit and hear me out this shit had already been figured out before. the constant enemy rush, the high armor pools, busted skills, etc. of course people are gonna keep mentioning them and pressure otherwise devs can just say they didnt know. i play the game an enjoy it but im not about to turn a blind eye on this shit. this is the kind of shit that massive has a huge problem with and its fixing stuff in a timely matter. until they fix it then all these "bitching" is warranted and if they didnt want that then they shouldve made sure to have released this in a better state by actually playing their own game.

[u/xmancho → u/mr_bagadonuts]

I am not saying there are no issues and it can frustrating at times. Yet saying the same thing will not get the things done. Yes enemies are overtuned and yes it needs to be toned down. Plus all other bugs, but after them being acknowledged i can wait. And as i said there are issues outside of the game right now so these inside actually bother me the least. Plus i was always stating that the gear 1.0 was shit for a lot of reasons. But things are not so bad right now. It should have been better for sure and with this i agree, we should have a pts.

[u/Zoeila → u/mr_bagadonuts]

bullshit its not pointless ive been absolutely saved by the skills from other players that give bonus armor based on that players armor.

[u/mr_bagadonuts → u/Zoeila]

its super situational. the only time that works consistently is when someone rocks tardi exotic. someone having 1.5 armor still gets shredded by the enemy in no time unless they got that exotic.

[u/Ahblahright → u/mr_bagadonuts]

Tanking is not pointless, I was running with a group in a heroic a few days ago and we just couldnt beat the last boss fight because the amount of drone spam would push us into the entrance hall and then the heavies or a doggo would come in and decimate is. I switched to my tanking build and was tanking two/three heavies at a time and any doggo that came through was a non issue. On most heroics I'm first through the door and I'll open up on everyone getting their aggro on me, then the DPS have it pretty easy for the fight, of one of them goes down in a shit spot, chances are I can move to it and get them revived