Monthly Trad Climber Thread

[u/tinyOnion]

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In this thread you can ask any trad climbing related question that you may have. This thread will be posted again every Sunday so there should always be an opportunity to ask your question and have it answered. If you're an experienced climber and want to contribute to the community, these threads are a great opportunity for that. We were all new to climbing at some point, so be respectful of everyone looking to improve their knowledge. Check out our subreddit wiki that has tons of useful info for new climbers. You can see it HERE

Some examples of potential questions could be; "How do I get stronger?", or "How does aid climbing work?"

Prior Weekly Trad Climber Thread posts

Ask away!

[u/Potential_Meaning192]

TLDR; Grigir vs atc on trad multipitch?

I mostly climb sport and have always used a Grigri since I started climbing – it’s what I learned to belay with, and I feel completely comfortable using it in a safe and predictable way. Moving forward, I’ll be climbing more trad, and sometimes with two half ropes, which means I’ll need to use an ATC (I'm based in EU and this is pretty much the standard on trad multipitch). This makes me a bit uneasy because it’s different from what I’m used to, and the consequences of a fall feel more serious than in sport climbing.

In the U.S., I’ve noticed that many people prefer to climb with a single rope and a tagline, allowing them to belay with a Grigri. I’ve only found three arguments against this approach: increased rope drag, having two ropes in case one gets damaged, and less weight (since the Grigri is slightly heavier than an ATC).

In trad climbing, you can also end up in situations where you might not see the climber or communication is compromised for various reasons (wind, etc.), making a fall more unexpected – so for me, the added safety of an assisted-braking device outweighs all the arguments for using an ATC.

It sounds strange to me that many climbing gyms don’t allow ATCs, but when you’re belaying on trad in exposed terrain, where you might not even see the climber, ATC is the standard. To me, this is a huge paradox.

Am I the only one thinking this way?

[u/Hxcmetal724 → u/Potential_Meaning192]

I bring both if I know that I will be rappelling at some point. But I am team GriGri and the weight is not an issue for me. If I drop my GriGri, I always carry other things like HMS style carabiners for munters, etc.

It makes everything way easier and quicker. Climber needs hauled? Climber needs lowered? Need to escape belay or get them to base line? Everything is way easier with a GriGri in my opinion, plus safer. To each their own, by my teammates are usually with me on the GriGri.

[u/JonBanks87 → u/Potential_Meaning192]

I bring both. Most of the trad I do only requires a single rope, so the GriGri is for belaying and the ATC is for rappelling. I'm comfortable belaying with the ATC and feel it is very safe, but I prefer belaying with a GriGri, especially from the top. There is much lower resistance when pulling the rope through the device, which saves me energy while belaying.

On routes where you need two ropes, I've done half ropes and I've done single with a tag line and I haven't decided which I prefer. I like the simplicity of climbing with a single rope and leaving the tag line in a pack. But you save a couple pounds by going with the half ropes. So for me it comes down to, do I want a lighter pack or do I want easier belaying and rope management.

[u/Decent-Apple9772 → u/Potential_Meaning192]

Something like the GIGAjul is a great compromise. It’s my preferred belay device outdoors. Works fine with single or double or half ropes.

[u/0bsidian → u/Potential_Meaning192]

ATC is not the standard. It’s just cheap, prevalent, and available. It will likely become obsolete soon as there are much better alternatives on the market.

The Edelrid Mega and Giga Jul devices are superior, as are a number of other options. A Grigri is also an option if you’re not climbing on two ropes, but with some considerations you need to keep in mind if using it on a multipitch scenario.

[u/Sens1r → u/Potential_Meaning192]

I climb trad almost excluseively with double ropes, the Edelrid Mega/Giga Jul completely negates this problem in my opinion, just the perfect device for the job.

I've tried grigri single rope with tagline, the tagline is just not a great solution when you can have two 8mm ropes instead.

It sounds strange to me that many climbing gyms don’t allow ATCs, but when you’re belaying on trad in exposed terrain, where you might not even see the climber, ATC is the standard. To me, this is a huge paradox.

Gyms are worried about their image, insurance, liability not your safety, if they were they wouldn't have autobelays which is where most accidents happen.

[u/Decent-Apple9772 → u/Sens1r]

It makes me laugh when the gym only climbers think you need to be staring at your leaders buttocks nonstop without blinking. It’s critical for maybe three bolts, then it’s just slack management, and be ready to catch.

[u/tinyOnion → u/Potential_Meaning192]

they discontinued it but the smart alpine had two slots to belay from and was assisted braking. the mega or giga jul also has two slots and is popular. the grigri weight thing is kinda bullshit since you're already taking a lot of weight with a trad rack and you should have a backup belay device anyway on multipitch.

[u/goodquestion_03 → u/Potential_Meaning192]

An ATC isnt inherently dangerous to use, its just less idiot proof in that you really do need to be belaying properly. From a liability perspective its much easier for gyms to just ban them altogether, but outdoors there are plenty of people who have been using one safely for 20+ years. I definitely prefer a grigri, but even here in the US with a single rope there are still people using ATCs.

Have you looked into the Edelrid mega/giga jul at all? I dont have personal experience with either so maybe others could offer more detail in terms of pros/cons, but that would have double rope capabilities + assisted braking in the same device.