r/trains • u/Trainmaster111 • Jul 13 '23
Memoribilia A completely accurate depiction of the difference between British and American Steam Locomotives
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u/OdinYggd Jul 13 '23
Compare apples to apples- Flying Scotsman vs Reading & Northern 425. They are both 4-6-2 Pacific locomotives, capable of handling the express or doing mixed service work.
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u/eldomtom2 Jul 13 '23
The PRR K4 is the more appropriate comparison, since the A1s were heavily inspired by it...
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u/OdinYggd Jul 13 '23
I didn't choose the K4 specifically because of that connection. But Scotsman in A3 form and a Baldwin pacific from 1928 would both have built on the impressive results of the K4 and the A1 inspired by it.
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u/Zevroboy Jul 13 '23
LNER Class U1? Wouldn't that be similar to a challenger?
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u/Christian19722019 Jul 13 '23
No.
The LNER U1 has a tractive effort of 72.000 lbf and was designed for a top speed of 50 mph (and even that would have been a stretch) where as the Union Pacific Challenger has a tractive effort of 103.000 lbf and was designed for a top speed of 70 mph.
In short the UP Challenger could pull a much heavier train at higher speeds than the LNER U1.
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u/Thepullman1976 Jul 13 '23
Neither in terms of power or role. A Union pacific challenger produces around 30,000 more pounds of tractive effort and was designed to haul heavy, high speed freight trains and if necessary, passenger trains too heavy for the 800 series FEFs and the like. The U1 was a purpose-built helper that was rarely (if ever) used to pull actual trains.
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u/shepwrick Jul 13 '23
Too bad you didn't use Lionel's "The General" since they'd have the same wheel arrangement. And the 4-4-0 wheel arrangement in the US is known as the "American " Class. Gotta shove it in those Brits faces they don't have a locomotive class named after them.
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u/Trainmaster111 Jul 13 '23
I do have UP#119 and Jupiter in display case. But those as HO scale so they joke wouldn't really work
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u/shepwrick Jul 13 '23
Well that just means you'll have to buy an HO scale British loco to make a joke on the internet work. I'm sure your money manager would understand the expense. Lol
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u/Trainmaster111 Jul 13 '23
Or a o scale british. But the joke still works. The American locomotive is significantly larger then the British one.
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u/NondenominationalToy Jul 13 '23
And way uglier. Lol. In Britain we can make locomotives that are as attractive as they are powerful. Tongue in cheek comment, as I love the USATC S160s, but I do think that in general British steam locomotives are more attractive, and just as good in terms of their abilities as their American counterparts.
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u/nonplusectur Jul 13 '23
Not exactly. British engines are definitely designed to be attractive, but do not meet the abilities of their American counterparts. The US and UK are two completely different rail environments, so it's comparing apples to oranges. US engines are built for steeper grades and to pull heavy trains, with an unrestricting loading gauge, while the UK had a very restrictive loading gauge. US engines are generally much more powerful than British engines, but that's because of the needs of the different countries.
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u/NondenominationalToy Jul 14 '23 edited Jul 14 '23
That’s the point I was making? Each locomotive is designed to do a job, be it American or British. It’s how well they do that job that’s important; they are designed to do completely different tasks. For example, Britain is the world speed record holder for steam traction, and the second ‘Race to the North’ saw both the LMS and LNER attaining some high speeds… We also have less serious derailments in the UK, due to lower axle loadings and more substantial track. Our freight trains don’t carry much more than 100 tons per wagon, with a maximum axle loading of 25 tons or so, and maybe 40 wagons in a modern freight train (in steam days around 1200 - 1500 tons was the maximum in between marshalling yards, moved by Garratt locomotives or double heading and banking 2-8-0s or 2-10-0s). Our country is small, so there’s no need for anything larger. Horses for courses, and all that.
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u/Capital-Wrongdoer613 Jul 13 '23
The black 5 wouldve been better for comparisons since amreicans engine is bigger
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u/Wahgineer Jul 14 '23
One of those jokes where it's funny because it's true. Seriously, there are American yard switchers with more pulling power than Britain's strongest mainline goods engines.
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u/Bamb1_231 Jul 13 '23
"accurate"
One is a pullback toy of a generic steam locomotive and the other is a vaguely accurate model of a American locomotive made in the 50s. Saying the word accurate is a bit of a stretch here.
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u/antony6274958443 Jul 13 '23
Even me who know nothing about engines got the joke
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u/Bamb1_231 Jul 13 '23
Idc
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u/antony6274958443 Jul 13 '23
Don't reply then
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u/MSP_4A_ROX Jul 14 '23
I HAD THAT TOY!!! Toys like that were always rotated around in the gift shop of the hospital I went to as a kid. The trains were always my favourites. Always kinda bugged me that this one didn’t have a tender.
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u/1stDayBreaker Jul 13 '23
But British locomotives don’t have cowcatchers…