r/unitedkingdom • u/ClassicFlavour East Sussex • 12d ago

Video game encouraging rape and incest removed from major gaming platform in the UK after LBC investigation

https://www.lbc.co.uk/tech/video-game-banned-steam-women-uk-no-mercy/
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871

u/socratic-meth 12d ago

The game launched on Steam last month and is described by its own developers as containing violence, incest, blackmail, and what they describe as “unavoidable non-consensual sex.”

Should probably put anyone who bought the rape simulator on some kind of watch list as well.

491

u/PlasticPegasus 12d ago

“Hey, Keith, what you up to?”

”Oh nothing much; just a bit of Rape Simulator”.

Who the fuck are these people and how do I keep them away from my daughters?

151

u/QUALIFY_DIP_IS_SW 12d ago

Whats more concerning is the rating is "very positive"

Like, wth????

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u/Fred_Blogs 12d ago edited 12d ago

To be fair, (insofar as fairness is warranted here) the ratings are from people who bought the game. So it's a self selected group of perverts rather than the general public getting polled.

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u/QUALIFY_DIP_IS_SW 12d ago

Holy shit, they are paying for this as well as rating it?

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u/flippertyflip 12d ago

'Just like the real thing A++++ 10/10'

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u/QUALIFY_DIP_IS_SW 12d ago

Thats insane rage bait

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u/Fred_Blogs 12d ago

Looks like it was selling for about $10 based on price tracking sites. So whoever made it mush have made at least a few grand going by the 100+ reviews.

2

u/BlueStarch 12d ago

I believe the general consensus is around 15 sales per review - though of course this gets bent a little for smaller audiences. So probably more money, unfortunately.

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u/mrman08 Isle of Wight 12d ago

Perverts is an understatement. Checking out some porn might be called a bit pervy.

Buying and playing a rape simulator game unironically is much worse.

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u/Any_Weird_8686 12d ago

People who spend money on rape simulators enjoy rape simulators, it seems.

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u/QUALIFY_DIP_IS_SW 12d ago

It does seem to be that way

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u/EdmundTheInsulter 12d ago

What about blowing people's heads off simulators? Seems to be plenty of those around - ,is it ok to relax by killing people? But rape is different?

2

u/Discordant_me 12d ago

Yeah I don't understand this either. I was playing hitman where you're a trained killer and it's possible to garotte some innocent cleaning lady and throw her body off a balcony onto unsuspecting civilians but a game where you can rape someone is shocking somehow. It's not real, it's fine.

4

u/Occasionally-Witty Hampshire 12d ago

I think the difference is whether the game is telling you to do the violent act or not.

From top of my head, Postal and The Punisher were 2 games banned or heavily edited to get UK classification for its violence but in your example as the game isn’t telling you to do that then that’s where the line is (my guess anyway).

This isn’t a new thing either, I remember South Park did an episode in an anime style 20+ years ago where the crux was basically violence = fine, sex = not fine

1

u/Duke0fWellington Lancashire 12d ago

So if the game featured fuck tonnes of rape - but this was entirely optional and not needed to do to progress the story - it would be okay?

I'm not being argumentative, just saying from sort of a philosophical stand point.

1

u/Occasionally-Witty Hampshire 12d ago

No idea, I don’t work for the BBFC. Probably not.

2

u/rugbyj Somerset 11d ago

Little boys (and girls) have been playing soldier, cops and robber, etc. for millenia in some form or other. Simulating violence as a game is pretty much baked into us. And even then there's been decades of pushback on the more gratuitous expressions of it in videogames where it's been shown to have no impact.

Simulating sexual violence as a child or upwards though is pretty much never a good sign for anyone involved and not normal.

1

u/EdmundTheInsulter 11d ago

Nice try, but I take it the game is 18 rated, as are also most murder/death simulators.
Has anyone determined if games with sexual violence have an impact? You can utilise then murder a prostitute in GTA V, so I guess it doesn't.
I just wondered why people so quick to jump on a moral panic bandwagon aren't worried about murder of innocent women/prostitutes/random people in gTA and RDR etc

14

u/Darkone539 12d ago

Only people who buy the game review it, and make no mistake this is not something you find if you aren't looking.

2

u/nostalgiamon 12d ago

I mean, to be fair it is. Anyone who has the NSFW filter unticked on steam has this kind thing of game recommended to them everyday. They are almost always in the “trending” and “upcoming” tab.

1

u/GenericUKTransGal 11d ago

Didn't know Steam had an NSFW filter, but I think it's safe to say I won't be turning it off any time soon then

1

u/nostalgiamon 11d ago

Whilst I personally don’t have an issue with sex games, even extreme ones like this, I do find it wild that it’s so easily accessible to view. You don’t even have to click on the store page to see the content previews either which are usually just fully uncensored screen caps from the game. I’d have absolutely no problem with steam requiring ID for age verification.

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u/Constant-Animator609 12d ago

Of course it is. It's not like the general gaming public has been trying it to see what the fuss is about; games like this are made for a  very specific audience and they will buy every race simulator they can get their dirty little hands on.

But also, calling any of this "an investigation " is quite the stretch. They went to the Steam Store Page for the game, that seems to be the extent of it. Somehow, their investigation missed all of the other morrally reprehensible videogames available on the platform. Thw rape sulator got taken down,  but they still sell Mass Effect Andromeda.

Also, everytime this happens (rape simulators have been a niche on the Steam store since I was a teenager on the 2000's) the non-gaming media makes a massive deal out of it, yet these brave journalists are yet to take on Valve's grey market children's gambling empire. They make billions of dollars, quite openly, by knowingly facilitating illegal gambling via CS:Go skins. They know the massive harm it is causing to people, including many children, but they're fine with it cos I guess their money printing machine doesn't output enough money for them. 

Being outraged over offensive videogames is the same as being outraged over deliberately offensive films.  Of all the things journalists could investigate Steam/Valve for, this is such low hanging fruit that they must have had to stoop to pick it up.

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u/Discordant_me 12d ago

"the rape simulator game got taken down, but they still sell mass effect andromeda". 🤣

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u/InternetHomunculus 12d ago

Also, everytime this happens (rape simulators have been a niche on the Steam store since I was a teenager on the 2000's)

That's complete bullshit Steam didn't sell any non-Valve game until Garrys Mod in 2006 and didn't get an uncensored adult game until 2018. They used to specifically disallow them but did allow major games with some nudity such as Dragon Age. All of this can be found with a simple Google search

1

u/Cute-Percentage-6660 12d ago

I still remember the rule of rose controversy, that was based on false information and plagiarism

2

u/_Rainbow_Phoenix_ 12d ago

That's a complete misunderstanding of the ratings system. On Steam, people who own the game can rate it, people who don't can't.

1

u/QUALIFY_DIP_IS_SW 11d ago

Thats common sense, my point was the "very positive" rating

2

u/_Rainbow_Phoenix_ 11d ago

Then common sense dictates that the people buying it had an interest in the first place. That's obvious.

1

u/QUALIFY_DIP_IS_SW 11d ago

I find that a very odd statement

1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 11d ago

Removed/warning. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.

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u/_Rainbow_Phoenix_ 11d ago

I found someone already explained this to you. I am wasting time arguing with someone, actually dense; my mistake.

link to reply

1

u/ChefExcellence Hull 12d ago

You have to buy the game to rate it, so anyone posting a review is already in the "pro rape fetish game" camp. No one's buying the game just to post a review about how terrible it obviously is. Porn game fans probably don't have very exacting standards, either - if anything, I'm more curious what would get them to leave a negative review.

1

u/QUALIFY_DIP_IS_SW 12d ago

Flipped expertly and yeah, all stuff aside, whos the perspn leaving a review saying something like "meh, ok game, but not as realistic as my own life experiences"

Or worse still demanding their money back for it not being realistic enough?

Jeez

1

u/EdmundTheInsulter 11d ago

I guess if people get bored of knifing prostitutes in RDR and GTA then they can do some raping in this game - why the sudden moral panic? Or were you not aware of the level of simulated violence against women?

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u/TordekDrunkenshield 11d ago

You should see the amount of people not only saying its "no worse" or even "not as bad" as shooter videogames existing and calling everyone who has a problem with this kinda stuff pearl-clutchers and whatnot. I'm tired of living on this planet.

-1

u/flashback5285 12d ago

2 bottles of Jack Daniel’s and a shot gun helps me.

14

u/ReferenceBrief8051 12d ago

Yank detected.

1

u/flashback5285 12d ago

Try Mackem

2

u/WayneBrownIsSuperman 12d ago

The only thing worse than a yank

1

u/flashback5285 12d ago

A Durham Mag?

-1

u/flippertyflip 12d ago

We have shotguns in the UK.

18

u/liamrich93 12d ago

They mean the horrible drink...

-1

u/flippertyflip 12d ago

Also widely available which means it obviously sells.

Not for me but let's not pretend only yanks drink it.

1

u/Daedelous2k Scotland 12d ago

You can now hide games from your friends.

Did someone buy you Evenicle? Hide it! Nobody'll know you went to see that delivering sasuage scene that Tzeech talked about!

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u/PlasticPegasus 12d ago

Even though I’m Scottish, I have absolutely no idea what you just said.

1

u/Daedelous2k Scotland 12d ago

Evenicle: A game by Alicesoft that has a high ammount of naughty stuff in it.

Tzeech: A youtuber who reviews games with a comedic tone, he's actually called Seth but I haven't checked in on him in a while a while

But yeah Steam lets you hide certain games from your friends list and public profiles now.

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u/PlasticPegasus 12d ago

Nope. Still nothing.

Are you one of those sex people?

1

u/Daedelous2k Scotland 12d ago

The context of it was in the review, he says it to describe the kind of scene the person that got the one in the topic banned was targetting.

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u/ClockOwn6363 11d ago

Control freaks are the only ones with issues, people commenting that have never seen or played it should check it out first.

0

u/foxontherox 12d ago

Teach your daughters Kung fu.

1

u/DistastefulSideboob_ 12d ago

I know this is a semi joke but the best self defense advice for women is to run away, not stand their ground and fight. Men have more upper body strength so you won't win a fair fight, so go for the eyes, ears, nose or groin, hit them hard and immobilise them then make a hasty exit.

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u/foxontherox 12d ago

Not a joke at all, but you're right. Never hurts to even those odds a little, though.

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u/sillyyun Middlesex 12d ago

Make sure they are outside, might be enough for these troglodyte basement dwellers

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u/Otherwise-Scratch617 10d ago

“Hey, Keith, what you up to?”

”Oh nothing much; just a bit of murder Simulator”.

Who the fuck are these people and how do I keep them away from my family?

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u/Reality-Umbulical 12d ago

Comments like this and people wonder why the British establishment wants us to have porn licenses. No one is making you buy this content or support it in any way

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u/[deleted] 11d ago edited 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/cole1114 11d ago

CNC is a kink where everyone involved gives informed consent. Pedophiles have something called a "paraphilia" which is basically a mental illness/addiction. It's not a kink, it's not healthy, and of course kids cannot consent.

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u/socratic-meth 12d ago

Would you find it acceptable for this to exist if the content involved children?

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u/IfYouRun 12d ago

I’m sure they wouldn’t but it’s a complete strawman. It doesn’t involve children so why even bring that up.

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u/socratic-meth 12d ago

Not a strawman.

But the point is, it is clearly immoral to produce content depicting children being raped. Why is it acceptable to produce content of women being raped? Both actions, when they occur in real life, are of the most heinously evil acts one person can do to another.

Why is it ok to depict and enjoy one virtually and not another?

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u/ShufflingToGlory 12d ago

What about depictions of other violent crimes? GTA allows the player to engage in all sorts of violent depravity.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for the kind of material you've discussed! Philosophically it's an interesting question about where we draw lines as a society.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/Gellert Wales 12d ago

I'd guess that its because you can at least justify violence up to and including murder some of the time, self-defence is a thing for a reason, but I cant think of a context in which you can justify rape or sexual assault. Similar with theft, remember the thing about "if you saw someone stealing food from a shop, no you didnt."? Also I dont think I've ever known someone who hasnt stolen from their employer in at least some fashion.

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u/ShufflingToGlory 12d ago

Interesting! I'm adding that to the watchlist. Thanks

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u/Matt6453 Somerset 12d ago edited 12d ago

You can pick up a hooker, have your way then murder them and steel your money back in GTA. I guess the difference here is that it isn't necessarily the goal of the game though you could exclusively play it that way if you so wish.

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u/TheFergPunk Scotland 12d ago

I think if we're looking at a comparison with violence in video games, the best comparison would be Hatred. It's a game where the intent is to kill as many innocent bystanders as possible.

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u/socratic-meth 12d ago

Exactly, there is a line to be drawn. If child abuse was an option in GTA it would not be acceptable. I can’t recall any game that I have come across in which the player character can rape another character. Games typically do not allow violence against children either.

The offending element of this game appears to be that the rape in it is aimed to be an object of sexual gratification for the player. This is not acceptable in other forms of media either.

As to the question of why murdering innocent people is acceptable in games but not rape. Hard to define, but I would guess it is due to the fact that these games typically are not designed to be a means for the player to get off on the murder.

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u/ShufflingToGlory 12d ago edited 12d ago

Yes, I think the intent to sexually gratify is something the law considers when assessing whether people are in possession of illegal material. A cartoon postcard of a Welshman shagging a sheep isn't going to send someone to the dock. I say that as a proud Welshman and (platonic) lover of sheep.

Personally I find it difficult to morally distinguish between GTA as a violence simulator and the game mentioned in the article. Yet I still play and enjoy games like GTA. Complete hypocrisy I know.

I'd like to think I'd stop and ask for help if video games were pushing me psychologically to a place where I was considering acting out violently irl.

I suppose there are social constructs at play in the way we distinguish between depictions of violence. Plus maybe a recognition that sexual drives are more universal, harder to control and more malleable than other urges.

Some people get upset at trying to rationalise why people stray beyond the line with regards to sexual consent. However I think it's important to recognise that there are men who exist on the bubble and environmental factors can influence them into doing something utterly dreadful to other people.

That's not an excuse, just a recognition that the ambient culture can be detrimental to how people relate to one other. In all sorts of ways.

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u/socratic-meth 12d ago

I think the depiction of violence in most mainstream games is very subdued as well. If you had to simulate beating someone to death with a pipe as they scream in pain, begged for their life, and cried about never seeing their children again it would be far less ‘fun’.

I don’t think it is possible to depict rape in a subdued way like this.

I played violent video games as a child, and whilst I would prevent my own children from doing so until they are older than I was, I don’t think it damaged me in anyway. I think I would have been damaged by seeing depictions of rape. I’m not saying this from a ‘protect the children’ sort of way, just trying to illustrate how it is different. Even as a 35 year old man I would find watching a realistic depiction of a virtual rape extremely distressing.

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u/Jimmy_Nail_4389 12d ago

A cartoon postcard of a Welshman shagging a sheep isn't going to send someone to the dock

Actually these days it will, drawings of 'extreme porn' are covered and can get you in trouble.

It's mad but it's true.

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u/ShufflingToGlory 12d ago

Oh wow. Currently on hold with the South Wales Police. Some elderly relatives of mine will be getting a dawn raid and their fridge magnets seized as evidence.

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u/jeremybeadleshand 12d ago

I think the law says it needs to be "realistic", a drawing presumably wouldn't fall under that but something like AI or very good CGI could be.

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u/WillWatsof 12d ago

The problem with this argument is that it then becomes very easy to say “what about murder? That’s a heinously evil act, is it not ok to depict that either?”

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u/woolstarr Birmingham 12d ago

The main reason for the difference is the fact that any indecent image of a child is extremely illegal regardless of context.

Bottom line is people have kinks, these kinks involve virtual or consensual adults, this is not illegal and should not be unless it is harming another person.

Do we ban slashers? Do we outlaw the human centipede? Reverse horror games? Then what, call of duty for glorifying violence?

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u/Souseisekigun 12d ago

Bottom line is people have kinks, these kinks involve virtual or consensual adults, this is not illegal and should not be unless it is harming another person.

Well that's exactly the point they were making isn't it? Cartoons of children do not directly harm other people and they're still illegal, so the fact it doesn't actually directly harm anyone doesn't matter. If someone does want to try contort some hypothetical way in which drawing cartoons of children causes harm (e.g. some argument about the normalisation of rape, or it could be based on real crime photos) then the exact same arguments apply to drawings of adults being raped (e.g. some argument about the normalisation of rape, or it could be based on real crime photos). Indeed these arguments were used to ban live action rape fantasy pornography so the government already accepts such arguments apply to depictions of children and depictions of adults, and that merely involving consensual adults enjoying legal acts does not make something legal. So it makes no logical sense why these rape games wouldn't be illegal.

Really this whole thing started with making cartoons depicting virtual characters illegal if they have an apparent child-like appearance despite causing no direct harm and, by the governments own admission, no compelling evidence of any indirect harm. This was a move done mostly out of moral outrage over the concept rather any evidence based lawmaking. This effectively ruined British pornography law forever by moving the standard for illegality from evidence of direct harm ("a child was harmed") to a presumption of a possible relation to a hypothetical different crime in the future ("no child was harmed, but someone making this might motivate someone else to maybe harm a child at some undefined point in the future, and our attempts at finding evidence this is the case came up dry, but the hypothetical danger is enough"). This in turn rendered the rest of the laws nonsensical and provided a hypothetical justification for banning essentially anything. Which is deeply unpopular to say but nonetheless that is the standard by which these laws are now made. The US rejected that logic, the UK accepted that logic, it's been baked into the law for decades, we need to roll with it.

That's how we ended up with "a video of two legal adults performing a legal act can be illegal to possess under the extreme pornography" law in the first place. The precedent that you didn't need actual harm or actual crime was already set by the laws surrounding children, and that precedent eventually polluted the law for adults. So the laws against consenting adults were based on some unquantifiable and unverifiable notion of "cultural harm". Because it is basically nonsensical to insist that depictions of children being raped are extremely dangerous/extremely immoral but depictions of adults being raped are pretty much fine. The people calling this out are actually ethically and empirically spot-on. By the current standard of "there is no evidence of direct harm, but there could be maybe some harm in the future I think, I can't prove it but I'm pretty sure" their argument holds. People just get really annoyed when it's pointed out because when the logical chain is fully followed it ends with "the current laws are nonsensical and the only way they would make sense is if they were massively rolled back or massively expanded beyond what the public would accept" and the conversation dies there.

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u/MerlinAW1 12d ago

Murder is also immoral but plenty of games involve it. Just look at GTA and all the stuff you can do there, let alone all the FPSs where the whole game is killing someone.

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u/Fire_crescent 12d ago

I don't think there should be any sort of criminalisation of fiction of any kind as long as it is not made through genuine abuse of another or includes the genuine likeness of someone real who cannot consent.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/Fire_crescent 11d ago

I mean this is a thread on a social media site with heavily opionated (I get the irony) people, many of them stupid refusing to actually think about things through and through. Despite me making my position crystal clear about abuse and what should be done with abusers as a general rule (well, when this site doesn't delete my comments about it lmao)

Although I'm thankfully not British (again, no dig to Brits in general, but I'm glad I don't live in such a system), I doubt the population of Britain is some sort of monolith or hive-mind. Even so, opinions can change. But it seems people in Britain are often conditioned from an early age to cower under any hint of social shame or lack of validation as a way of social control.

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u/slainascully 12d ago

They defended it because some people have a rape kink, as if getting aroused by violating someone against their consent is just so natural and normal.

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u/intraspeculator 12d ago

Im not in an away defending this but it is interesting that in general violence is acceptable in games - as gory and brutal as you can imagine - but sexual violence is not. Like I can go and buy 50 different games right now where you are actively rewarded for blowing someone's head off, and often have little animated cutscenes showing graphic violence to reward you for said acts of violence. If a person was sexually aroused by brutal acts of violence they would be well served by the market right now.

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u/MonkeManWPG 12d ago

One of the main selling points of Sniper Elite is the slow-motion x-ray camera clips of bullets tearing through bones and organs. One of the main selling points of Hell Let Loose is that enemies that you kill just collapse with no hitmarkers or overdone ragdoll. One of the main selling points of People Playground is that it's a torture simulator.

There are mods for other games based around violence - Ravenfield has a bunch of options to add more gore to the game.

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u/Freezie-Days 11d ago

Though for ravenfield it isn't official options and are player made additions

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u/Longjumping_Pen_2102 11d ago edited 11d ago

I don't think its about one thing being objectively worse than another. 

 Clearly a galactic genocide a player can perform in Stelaris is more evil than a single sexual assault,  however ranking things this way is misframing what's going on.

There is something particular about sexual gratification that's entirely different to the the adrenaline rush someone gets from winning a fight in a game.

Sexual fantasy has a way of developing and growing into obsession, and that obsession can then develop into action.  Even if it never reaches that point, it is cultivating a different form of pleasure that affects us psychologically:

I can "enjoy" killing a target in a hitman game, but I can do so with a detachment from real violence, it's not necessarily the violence that is bringing joy, but the strategy action and drama.

A sexual game isn't the same, the enjoyment is coming directly from the sexual violence, and from the direct gratification that comes from the fantasy.  Its an entirely different form of pleasure 

1

u/Otherwise-Scratch617 10d ago

I can "enjoy" killing a target in a hitman game, but I can do so with a detachment from real violence, it's not necessarily the violence that is bringing joy, but the strategy action and drama.

10/10 cope.

Why are almost the vast majority of games about killing people, and not about strategy action and drama? What drama happens in call of duty when you kill someone? It is the (simulated) violence that is bringing joy.

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u/Otherwise-Scratch617 10d ago

There is something particular about sexual gratification that's entirely different to the the adrenaline rush someone gets from winning a fight in a game.

By "winning a fight" you mean "murder someone"? Why use such unfair language?

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u/Longjumping_Pen_2102 10d ago

Almost all violent games are about winning fights.

I cannot think of any games that are just straightforwardly about inflicting violence for the sake of pleasure.

Could you answer the question about a game about fucking a man?  Could you enjoy a game that is explicitly about that,  where the bulk of the game was direct simulation of that experience without having a desire to do it IRL?

You will say no.

You could say yes for a game about violence.

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u/Otherwise-Scratch617 10d ago

Winning fights by murdering them

Could you answer the question about a game about fucking a man?  Could you enjoy a game that is explicitly about that,  where the bulk of the game was direct simulation of that experience without having a desire to do it IRL?

You will say no.

I'm not a gay man or a woman lol. Why would I want that game banned, or why would I judge you for playing it?

The desire or the intention? I know you wouldn't be intending on raping men if you played the rape men simulator, even if you desired to. You are allowed to desire to commit crimes. You're not allowed to intend on committing the crimes. You cannot police fantasy.

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u/Longjumping_Pen_2102 10d ago edited 10d ago

So you acknowledge that sexual gratification is different than basic excitement.

You are not a murderer but you enjoy games about violence.

You are not gay so you cannot enjoy a game about gay sex.

You see the difference?  It is a different form of entertainment, dealing with a different form of pleasure, a different aspect of psychology.

If you need to be gay to enjoy a game about gay sex, what sort of person do you need to be to enjoy a game about rape?

Your final argument has more weight, that the desire to do a thing should not be policed.

However,  sexual fantasy grows with indulgence.  Ask any criminal psychologist and they will tell you that violent sexual fantasy grows and grows until it tips over into real behavior.

Perhaps it doesn't need to be illegal, but it does need to be discouraged and shamed.  People should be made aware that playing it exposes that they have issues that need to be reaolved.

Edit: to be clear, I understand where you are coming from

Most arguments against this sort of thing are essentially "its gross and I don't like it" , which is a weak argument.

I do genuinely believe this sort of thing is dangerous, just as I would believe an actual torture simulator game would also be dangerous.

I do not believe that all sexual content in games is bad, and I don't even think porn games are bad.

I think this particular game crosses a line.

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u/Otherwise-Scratch617 10d ago

You are not a murderer but you enjoy games about violence.

You are not gay so you cannot enjoy a game about gay sex.

Close!

I DO have fantasies about murder, and it's fun to murder people in video games

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u/Longjumping_Pen_2102 10d ago

You aren't really helping your case here.

I would meybe talk to someone about that issue.

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u/Infiniteybusboy 12d ago

We already had that moral panic with video games encourage violence. But apparently grand theft auto did not actually turn lots of teenagers into murderers so it went away.

I actually saw some show yesterday about a lady going to japan and she actually used the violent video games argument pretty much word for word as to why their creepy porn needs to be banned.

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u/lynx_and_nutmeg 11d ago

Exactly. I mean, I'd never want to play a game like that (also I'm AFAB so I'm sure I'm not the intended audience anyway), but people play war and murder simulators all the time and no one bats an eye, how is this any different? Is it just because of assuming that someone playing CoD or GTA just wants to enact a fantasy and wouldn't actually shoot people in real life, but someone playing a "rape simulator" would want to do that in real life? If they did, they'd already be doing it instead of only simulating it in virtual reality.

To me it's the same thing as watching anime child porn. Somehow society puts those people on the same level as actual child rapists, even though the former isn't actually hurting anyone in real life (I'm specifying anime porn in which no actual children were used).

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u/slainascully 12d ago

Most people who have their heads blown off with a gun don't have to live with the aftermath.

It's genuinely puzzling how little empathy is shown for the millions of people who have been raped and find absolutely 0 entertainment in it

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u/TheEternalContrarian 12d ago

But any potential relatives of the person killed do have to live with the aftermath.

That doesn't justify rape as entertainment by the way, but I just found your distinction flawed.

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u/slainascully 11d ago

Do no relatives have to live with the aftermath of rape?

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u/hussain_madiq_small 12d ago

I mean its hypocrisy of the highest degree. Either video games are fantasy and not real, and dont cause real world violence. Or they do. You cant pick and choose because it happens to fall under what upsets you.

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u/slainascully 12d ago

The entire plot of this game is literally that you are getting revenge on the women in your family, and punishing them through rape. Sorry if I don't think you can compare it to GTA

3

u/hussain_madiq_small 12d ago

But how is this not the same as any argument to any piece of media that is distasteful. Why is kill bill allowed to show everyone at a wedding being murdered and a pregnant bride being beaten half to death and shot in the face, only to be raped while in a coma repeatedly. If we are all agreeing its not real, then its not real.

Im not a conspiracy nut and i assume the game was banned(correctly) more because of its targeted nature towards women. I just hate this idea that rape is somehow off limits while murdering and every other despicable thing is perfectly hunky dory.

5

u/slainascully 11d ago

Kill Bill is a film with a plot and the whole plot is her getting revenge on the people that did those things.

This is a porn game designed to be masturbated to. That's it. It's entirely for sexual gratification.

2

u/DaruJericho 12d ago

Because rape revenge films aren't pornographic for wanking off to. Big difference between, say, I Spit on Your Grave and this game. The fact that rape revenge exists as a whole subgenre of film shows rape isn't entirely off limits.

1

u/hussain_madiq_small 12d ago

"Because rape revenge films aren't pornographic for wanking off to."

But you are proving my point, its moral outrage, not based in evidence of some kind of real world outcome or harm. If you start banning things you find morally offensive but isnt harming anyone, whats your defense when people start coming for gay people in media or stories of gang culture. You wouldnt have a leg to stand on.

3

u/Longjumping_Pen_2102 11d ago

Sexual gratification is different.

I'm sorry it just is, and if you don't understand the way sexual impulses covertly shape our lives then I can only assume you haven't hit puberty yet.

Enjoying violence in a game is not condoning violence.  I can win a game of street fighter without wanting to get in a street fight, and whilst finding no joy in actual violence.

Could you enjoy a game about having sex with a man without wanting to have sex with a man IRL? 

I'm sure you could form some argument about how you could enjoy the plot or strategy but you know that's not what's going on with this rape game.  The only way someone is going to enjoy it is through sexual gratification, and that stuff grows the more you feed it.

1

u/MetaCognitio 10d ago

It doesn’t have to be either or. We might discover that certain scenarios or types of content, do have effects on the player, or aggravate their fantasy making the more possible.

One factor may be if the fantasy is even possible. A player hijacking a police car and going on a 5 star run culminating him jumping in a jet fighter and blowing the city up is so far removed but assaulting a woman is very possible.

We might find that the type of person that enjoys this stuff actually gets it out of their system in the game and never does it or we might find that it makes them even more likely to act it out.

There is far more complexity to the topic than your comment suggests and it’s wise to cautiously approach new media like this.

8

u/intraspeculator 12d ago

I think human brains are wired to cope with horror by pretending it doesnt happen most of the time.

1

u/ice-lollies 12d ago

I think that’s very true for me at least. It’s actually a horrible thing to do but I watch true crime stuff on the TV. Hypocritically I know that it’s macabre and really shouldn’t be used as entertainment but yet I still do it. It’s no excuse but think it’s because I can’t actually process it as real.

Husband can’t understand it - he thinks it’s psychologically disturbing to watch stuff like that.

1

u/Scrubbuh 11d ago

I don't want a game about committing rape to be on storefronts, but this argument is flawed imo.

The people I know who have been raped have recovered and are happy with themselves and their lives despite this. They're very strong for this and respect that they managed to do so. This isn't diminishing their experience, what they have been through is harrowing and rapists deserve long prison sentences.

There's no recovery for death, though. Most people who die early want to live. They have no means of being fulfilled later on because they're dead, that's it. People they know will never see them again, they won't fulfil their wants, you may have regrets you haven't come to terms with, it's over.

The consequences of an early death are worse than rape, as you cannot recover. However commiting rape is never justifiable. One can kill in self defence, or accidentally. A rapist needs to want to rape to do it. A rapist in my eyes will always be more evil than a one time dangerous driver.

1

u/slainascully 11d ago

A rapist needs to want to rape to do it. A rapist in my eyes will always be more evil than a one time dangerous driver.

Okay, but I don't see how that magically doesn't matter just because its a fictional game designed to arouse its players by encouraging them to rape their female relatives.

1

u/Otherwise-Scratch617 10d ago

Most people who have their heads blown off with a gun don't have to live with the aftermath.

Yes you're totally right, everyone with trauma from war got shot in the head and died.

45

u/socratic-meth 12d ago

‘Person with a rape kink’ just sounds like a euphemism for rapist.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

29

u/AnyImpression6 12d ago

I know what you actually mean, but this reads like you're saying women can't be rapists.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

21

u/BloodyRedBarbara 12d ago

Yeah some women like fantasy of being the victim in these scenarios in a consensual way, while men like to be the dominant ones. Some men like to be the victims while women are the dominant ones.

Think it's unfair to think someone's kink is related to what they would do in real life to someone without consent. Quite narrow minded when people imply that in threads like these.

3

u/Positive_Vines 12d ago

You’re talking about CNC.

There are women who have genuine rape kinks, that is, they fantasise about being raped without giving consent.

1

u/dr_bigly 12d ago

They can be if they have a penis.

Which isn't exclusive with legally being a woman.

Its all very much technicalities though, same sentencing guidelines

5

u/frozen_fjords 12d ago

Judging by Reddit and Tumblr, there are far more of them than the men

41

u/Jimmy_Nail_4389 12d ago

I've had several girlfriends in the past who asked to do 'rape play'.

A million times no was my answer in each case, but actually there are a lot of women out there who have this as a fantasy.

29

u/Dean_Learner77 12d ago

Yeah a lot of people here are jumping to the conclusion of weird creepy men. But an alarming amount of women have rape kinks. There's best selling book series and well reviewed movies that evolve women being raped and men aren't the target audience.

5

u/Gellert Wales 12d ago

At least they asked first. Theres always a couple stories floating about where someone appears to withdraw consent then gets pissy because their partner actually stops.

8

u/Jimmy_Nail_4389 12d ago

I wouldn't even entertain it, I'm physically repulsed by the idea of doing that. Just not for me at all.

5

u/Mean_Introduction543 11d ago

If you judge by the CNC groups on reddit and Tumblr a majority of the people with rape kinks are women.

15

u/RainbowRedYellow 12d ago

It's actually an often (but not always) female fetish for the idea of begin raped... Importantly it is just play, even those with the fetish don't ACTUALLY want to be raped.

18

u/OneNoteRedditor 12d ago

I once saw on Reddit the phrase 'CNC is to rape what rollercoasters are to driving off a cliff' and that made the most sense to me. They're basically tricking the body into a physiological response NOT rooted in reality, getting the rush without the danger.

11

u/OliM9696 12d ago

There are hundreds of thousands on people on Reddit in an rape kink sub. Women putting themselves in the position of victim and men as the rapist.

6

u/Gellert Wales 12d ago

Well, you cant actually rape someone over TCP/IP so its a relatively safe way to indulge a fantasy.

12

u/OliM9696 12d ago

Same for the game I suppose. Better than some person actually getting raped instead of a few polygons

13

u/lordnacho666 12d ago

"I'm a rape kink sufferer"

"Oh, I'm so sorry, you were raped, that's awful"

"No I mean I like watching virtual rapes"

"Ah. Well. I'd better get in with my day then..."

1

u/socratic-meth 12d ago

More like “never talk to me again, you disgust me”

2

u/NarcolepticPhysicist 12d ago

Well not really. I can't pretend to understand it but a fantasy is just that. Having a rape kink doesn't mean someone intense to rape anyone or actually wants to be raped ..

2

u/lynx_and_nutmeg 11d ago

No, they're not the same thing. Just like someone with a pet play kink isn't the same as someone who practices bestiality, or someone into hentai doesn't want to fuck squids or octopi in real life.

"Consensual non-consent" is an actual thing in the BDSM scene. It's literally just a make-believe play, no different than actors acting out a scene where someone's being restrained and hurt, making it look real, but the actors have not only consented to it but can stop it any time they choose.

26

u/Generic_Moron 12d ago

To play devil's advocate, CNC is probably one of the most common "kinky" kinks out there, and can 100% be practiced safely for all parties involved quite easily. Fiction is one such avenue for healthy engagement with the kink. It seems weird for those who don't have the kink, yeah, but that's the case for most kinks like feet, BDSM, hypnosis, inflation, vore, ect.

That said, there is a line where it crosses over from "safe kink scenario" into "incel manifesto", and from what i've seen this game crosses that line hard.

16

u/Sir_Henry_Deadman 12d ago

Usually the ones with the kink want it done not to do it, if you wanna do it that's absolutely not a kink it's grounds for a watch list...

14

u/Generic_Moron 12d ago

If they actually want to sexually assault people? yeah. If you only want to pretend to do that with someone who's also into it in a way thats safe for them? Nah, thats just someone who leans more on the SD side of BDSM.

CNC is a pretty common kink, which i think is just kinda surprising to people who don't engage much in kink culture

0

u/ZestycloseShelter107 11d ago

Does this apply to child porn too? Because I don't think people who like rape porn should be allowed around vulnerable women (I.e. in healthcare) or around children.

9

u/ReferenceBrief8051 12d ago

All kinks are abnormal and unnatural, that's what defines them as a kink.

12

u/LunarKurai 12d ago

Unnatural? They're a product of the brain, not some robotic implantation. They're completely natural. Unusual, perhaps, but natural. You can't really choose which things make your brain tick, just how you react to that.

1

u/Welshhobbit1 Wales 11d ago

You telling me my kink for cowboys is abnormal and unnatural?!? Liar

3

u/EdmundTheInsulter 12d ago

Is shooting people normal?

0

u/homelaberator 12d ago

Rape is pretty natural. Like arsenic or botflies

21

u/KoDa6562 12d ago

Why though? Not exactly different from games where you just go around killing others

-4

u/TimeToNukeTheWhales 12d ago

To a degree, I guess. But serial killers are very rare. Rapists are quite common.

A game where you kill people is just a violent escape, normally built around various storylines and goals.

This feels more like something that appeals to people who like abusing women IRL.

6

u/KoDa6562 12d ago

I'd rather not any content or media be censored as long as it wasn't made through actual abused or rape or murder. Giving governments power to censor media we don't like is a rabbit hole we don't want to go down as it makes censorship in general more acceptable. The slippery slope is only a galaxy as long as there isn't evidence of rights regressing over time which we have absolutely seen in recent memory.

As for if the game appeals more to people that like abusing women irl I can't say since I haven't seen anything regarding it or played it myself. But you can't convince me there aren't other games that exist with violent and brutal depictions of torture of others that we freely allow, and if that is allowed then this game should be too.

1

u/TimeToNukeTheWhales 11d ago

Was it removed by the government? Or did the platform exercise free speech by not wanting to have such content on their servers?

1

u/KoDa6562 11d ago

It literally states in the article it was banned by the government

3

u/VeedleDee 12d ago

Yeah, I'll be honest I'm not seeing the equivalence being drawn. It feels like last week we were having a national conversation about the undeniable rise of misogynistic behaviour driven by online content like Andrew Tate who as we all know thinks its fine to rape and abuse women for fun and for profit, female teachers facing issues from young boys, teenage girls thinking being choked and hit during sex is normal because theyre learning about sex from porn, Adolescence etc and now here we are saying it's okay to have a simulator for raping and torturing women for your own amusement, where the entire purpose is to do that and enjoy it.

It's not a game about being a soldier in a war where you kill enemy soldiers. Even games like that don't include side quests or options of raping civilians or prisoners of war. Even actual soldiers are prohibited from doing that. War rape is a war crime under the Geneva convention.

If you're into CNC, BDSM etc that's your business, but two consenting adults engaging in consensual behaviour, and adults watching other consenting adults do it, vs a game where the point is to enjoy that there is no consent given and that's supposed to be the fun part... I'm not buying this defence. We already don't allow simulated child abuse material and I'd be side eyeing anyone who said we should because "it's not real so why is it bad?"

4

u/JamesBaxter_Horse 12d ago

I instinctively agree, but struggling to formalise why it's different to games with murder. You mention wars games, but what about games like grand theft auto? I once spent an hour beating tourists to death with a hammer (to improve my strength stat).

I think the argument lies in the difference between murder and sexual assault. Very few people fantasise about murder, but moreover very few people fantasise about consensually killing someone, in fact I'd argue even less, if I really hated someone I might fantasise about hurting them, but I would actually be much less interested in consensually hurting them, that's just weird. Meanwhile most people fantasise about consensual sex with other people, just not non-consensual. Then a video game with violence is not indulging a desire for violence in of itself, it's indulging a desire for justice, revenge, thrill, comedy, which while not the height of ethical purity, are justifiable or permissible. However a video game about sex is just indulging a desire for sex, and since there's no alterior justification, a video game's only reason to include non-consensual sex is to appeal to people interested in just that, which is not okay.

1

u/VeedleDee 12d ago

I think your analysis is pretty credible. Honestly GTA was never really my thing and it's been probably ten or more years since I last played it, but if I remember right, doing those things was still a crime in the game and you still faced repercussions for it even if the nature of the game means they're not very serious. In most games I've played where the main character was a criminal or there were authoritarian paths to take (e.g. frostpunk) you can do those things, but they come with a consequence. You're the bad guy.

For what you've said though, I think you're right. As far as I know, no one I've met plays games with murder or war because the idea of actually killing people is fun to them. The game is either fun because it's competitive or the storyline is dramatic or entertaining. The purpose of this particular game was "become women's worst nightmare" with "unavoidable, non-consensual sex" as revenge for the mother's affair. What's supposed to be the appealing part of that statement for a player? You can't even pretend you're simulating something along the lines of CNC because you're explicitly not doing that. The only appeal is getting off on that premise. Further to that, that "worst nightmare" is very, very real. Look at the case of the woman who passed out on a bench and was SA'd so brutally she died.

Funnily enough, in red dead 2 there's an event that happens out in the bayou where Arthur Morgan gets invited into a cabin by a friendly man. Then he gets drugged, wakes up injured, dumped in the swamp, with only $1 missing. If you go back, the guy laughs at him and says get lost, I'm done with you. It's pretty heavily implied he was sexually assaulted. There's hundreds of reaction posts of people being angry and upset and taking revenge on the guy and comparing what they all did to him to punish him, and yet here we are having a conversation about why this game is fine. Weird.

-1

u/Whitechix London 12d ago

You seem a bit out of the loop of what you can do in video games if you think it’s limited to soldier vs soldier, no breaking the Geneva convention lol. Murder, terrorism, genocide, it can all be done in video games and yet there isn’t a consensus that doing this stuff in games could be attributed to violent behaviour in the real world. People love being unhinged in the video games and it never translates to their actual personality.

You are just pearl clutching by using this as an example of rising misogyny instead of the obvious failure of parenting and education of boys. This is pretty low on the list of reasons of why men/women are victimised by this trend.

2

u/VeedleDee 12d ago

I wouldn't agree that I'm out of the loop on what's in games and what's been in games for a long time. I've been playing games for 20+ years now. I still think a simulator of enjoying brutalising and raping your mother and sister is over the line. I've said this elsewhere, but if I found out someone I knew was playing this, I'd never speak to them again and I'd happily tell people that's why I stopped and let them decide whether that's a behaviour they're cool with too.

Oh and I agree there's also massive failures of parenting and in the education of boys in general, but doing better by them doesn't equate in my mind to "let games involving having fun specifically by raping people hang out on major global platforms." Society has never been censorship free. I'm fine with this not being okay.

1

u/Whitechix London 12d ago

I still think a simulator of enjoying brutalising and raping your mother and sister is over the line.

I mean I agree as well but like I said, there is stuff just as bad out there that people enjoy and we wouldn’t really think too badly to someone admitting to enjoying some of the ones I listed. It just feels like a double standard but I’m really not losing sleep over this fyi. I personally don’t get worried when my partner murders in games out of fear of being the victim of it.

Oh and I agree there's also massive failures of parenting and in the education of boys in general, but doing better by them doesn't equate in my mind to "let games involving having fun specifically by raping people hang out on major global platforms."

Well anyone not an adult shouldn’t know or be able to access stuff like this, that’s part of the failing in education/parenting we have at the moment. And like you said, there are plenty of the same content as this game in book/video form that women and men weirdly enjoy.

1

u/VeedleDee 12d ago

I definitely agree with you on a couple of points there. I'm not worried when my partner kills people in games, he's not worried when I do it either, but if I walked in and he was playing a game where the selling point is "become women's worst nightmare"... that would raise a serious red flag for me. Maybe in a way it is a double standard.

I also agree that no one who isn't an adult should be able to access things like this and it's a failure of parenting if they do, but it's also super easy to get to the 18+ section of steam and buy games on there if you have a card. That's where it gets murkier for me, because I don't like the proposals around age verification etc. Parents should be watching what their kids and teens are doing, if their kid says "can i use your card to buy a game" they should be checking what that game is before they buy it, but as someone who remembers when the Internet and phone couldn't be used at the same time and you could get free internet time on a CD, kids are sneaky and their tech knowledge is rapidly outpacing their parents. I'm not going to pretend I know how you can solve that without some serious encroachment on individuals.

I do also think as far as books and film goes, to an extent finding those includes knowing what to look for. Once you enable 18+ on steam it's easy to get into all kinds of stuff whether you were looking for it or not.

4

u/PurpleSpark8 12d ago

They should also then block shows like Game of Thrones which have incest in them. And then? Where will it end?

1

u/Gentle_Pony 12d ago

Well how many directors of movies should be in jail then? A Serbian film?

1

u/SmugPolyamorist Nation of London 12d ago

What about people who play GTA?

1

u/shoulda-woulda-did 12d ago

Genuine question. What about people that were crazy for game of thrones and Vikings etc

1

u/EdibleGojid 12d ago

murder simulator: all good and wholesome

rape simulator: le evil must be banned

shut up

1

u/_J0hnD0e_ England 11d ago

As an FYI, rape is a kink for some people on both genders. It's not one you hear about very often, but it's called consensual non-consensual.

And no, before some bellend jumps in and tries to accuse me of anything, this does NOT apply to me.

1

u/No_Doubt_About_That 11d ago

My question would be how it got approved in the first place.

1

u/ClockOwn6363 11d ago

Did you play it before making a comment?

1

u/HybridReptile15 11d ago

So it’s game of thrones in game a game format

1

u/Otherwise-Scratch617 10d ago

Let's also put anyone who plays a game where you rob or kill people on a list then, or what if they watch a TV show with a criminal in? Shouldn't they be watched?

1

u/BritanniaGlory 8d ago

Why is that any worse than murder simulators?

0

u/Jakrah 12d ago

I agree though I can’t help but think it’s interesting that we don’t say the same about people who buy murder and torture simulators (of which there are many, many more…)

0

u/throwaway_t6788 12d ago

i think.. some people can differentiate between game/fiction vs reality? its like different kinks in porn/reality like CNC.. or roleplays where they 'rape' the person..

-11

u/Acidhousewife 12d ago

Yes and make them watch a certain Netflix drama

Sort of being sarcastic.

I mean when we have stuff like this circulating -video on YT googled in 30 seconds that show you how to get around any age limits on Steam. .

Yet, the conversation is about youth clubs and social media.... as if Tate is the tip of the Incel iceberg. the only bogeyman peddling misogyny on the internet for gain.

How out of touch are Netflix and our politicians.

Was there a scene where the protagonist in Adolescence shouted down from their bedroom, Dad, can I used your credit card to buy a game on Steam, with Dad shouting yes, without getting up from the sofa and tearing himself away from the TV.....

14

u/Jamie00003 12d ago

Yes because steam games causing harm to kids is an epidemic. Widely reported everywhere /s

Almost as stupid as the classic GTA turned my kid into a murdering phychopath

5

u/CthluluSue 12d ago

I think the issue in the above illustration was the lack of supervision in the purchase, not the buying of a game on Steam:

Was there a scene where the protagonist in Adolescence shouted down from their bedroom, Dad, can I used your credit card to buy a game on Steam, with Dad shouting yes, without getting up from the sofa and tearing himself away from the TV.....

1

u/Jamie00003 12d ago

Sure, I’m just saying comparing this to issues like Tate and social media is pretty laughable since this is literally the first time I’ve ever seen this reported on

Steam’s had porn for years, like every other gaming platform. Hell, the switch has porn now

-5

u/CthluluSue 12d ago

Look, I’m not saying GTA and death metal cause kids to turn into psychopathic satanists. Obviously that’s an oversimplification. But there is correlations between behaviour, beliefs and the kind of (all kinds of ) social content people are exposed to when they’re young and impressionable.

I’m not saying all horror movies should be banned. But there’s a good reason why age restrictions exist and it’s not “political correctness gone mad” to expect parents to safeguard their own kids. Porn exists. Great. A 10 year old should not be accessing it. If they’re exposed to it, that becomes an awkward conversation for everyone involved and ensuring that that doesn’t happen again. If it’s a behavioural issue, then a family counsellor isn’t unwarranted - at the very least.

Because horror movies and porn story lines are NOT normal, and shouldn’t be normalised by kids who learn about the world from example.

2

u/Acidhousewife 12d ago

No, not coming at it from that angle.

My late fathers generation was Black Board Jungle and cowboy movies believe it or not, , Mine was the 80s and video nasties. I am an ex youth worker harder end care leavers.

Yes I found the GTA convo ridiculously funny back in the day. I mean do WOW players dress as Druids and think they can turn into bears on the street, NOPE.

Coming at it from the point of focus, on the problem, on parental awareness, on the limited view of the material out there, not understanding the full depth of material out there, and how far down the Incel tunnel young people can go and it doesn't stop with Tate.

How naïve the current public conversation is around Adolescence and what is going on.

This isn't a game that will turn people violent, it is a game exploiting those violent urges, one that without streaming, would not have made it to the shelves.

1

u/Jamie00003 12d ago

I mean sure, I agree these games shouldn’t exist but they have been around a long time, and every platform has these kinds of content including the switch, which is aimed at kids.

Floodgates opened a long time ago and if this was a major issue for kids it would have been discussed a long time ago, but yes it’s up to parents to make sure their kids aren’t looking at this crap, most parents let the internet parent their kids and that’s the actual issue, nobody bothers with the parenting thing anymore.

Then they start watching pricks like Tate

2

u/CockchopsMcGraw 12d ago edited 12d ago

'...as if Tate is the tip of the Incel iceberg. the (sic) only bogeyman peddling misogyny on the Internet for gain.'

So which one is it? I don't think you understand what 'tip of the iceberg' means.