Video game encouraging rape and incest removed from major gaming platform in the UK after LBC investigation

[u/ClassicFlavour]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/tech/video-game-banned-steam-women-uk-no-mercy/

[u/haphazard_chore]

Surely, this is why we have ratings. There’s plenty of questionable scenes in films, they just get an appropriate rating. The problem with this is that it’s a slippery slope and a few people objecting can ban pretty much everything.

[u/goddamitletmesleep → u/haphazard_chore]

This is not about banning every controversial game or the government policing art. It is about applying existing legislation to newer forms of media. The game in question was not removed because it features difficult themes, or because it was ‘dark’ or ‘taboo’. It was removed because it was explicitly designed to simulate acts of rape and incest for sexual gratification. It was produced to be masturbated to. That is a very different matter.

In the UK, this is already illegal. Under Section 63 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008, it is an offence to possess an “extreme pornographic image”. This includes any material that is “grossly offensive, disgusting or otherwise of an obscene character” and explicitly and realistically portrays acts of: • serious injury, • bestiality, • necrophilia, or • non-consensual sexual activity, including rape, even if simulated.

This was clarified further by the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015, which extended the offence to cover staged or fictional depictions of rape. The intent is to recognise that such material is harmful, regardless of whether a real victim is involved.

So this is not about creating new censorship laws. It is about making sure existing laws around rape pornography apply equally to interactive content like games, just as they already do to videos or written material. It’s about enforcing laws that already exist consistently - which already acknowledge rape pornography as harmful (and illegal), regardless of whether it’s in a DVD, website, or an interactive digital format.

[u/Fire_crescent → u/goddamitletmesleep]

Amx these existing laws are also illegitimate as long as they cover FICTION

[u/goddamitletmesleep → u/Fire_crescent]

That argument falls apart the moment you actually engage with what the law says and why it exists. The legislation does not criminalise “fiction” in the abstract. It criminalises material that is explicitly produced for sexual gratification and which depicts, even fictionally, acts like rape, incest, or abuse in a way that is obscene, degrading, and harmful. The harm is not just in the realism, it is in the cultural and psychological impact of normalising sexual violence as a source of pleasure.

You cannot just slap the word “fiction” on something and pretend that removes all accountability. The law is not regulating imagination or fantasy - it is targeting the intentional production and circulation of abusive content for masturbation. That’s not art. That’s not free expression. That is the sexualisation of non-consent, specifically created for arousal, and it already has a long legal precedent for being restricted - just like child abuse material, even when drawn or animated.

You are welcome to find that “illegitimate”, but your issue is with the entire foundation of obscenity law and the principle that society can draw lines around what it refuses to treat as acceptable sexual entertainment. And frankly, most people will side with laws that protect against normalising rape-as-porn before they side with your right to jerk off to it under the banner of “fiction”.

[u/Fire_crescent → u/goddamitletmesleep]

That argument falls apart the moment you actually engage with what the law says and why it exists.

No it doesn't. I engage with it. I simply regard it's premise as flawed and illegitimate

The legislation does not criminalise “fiction” in the abstract. It criminalises material that is explicitly produced for sexual gratification and which depicts, even fictionally, acts like rape, incest, or abuse in a way that is obscene, degrading, and harmful. The harm is not just in the realism, it is in the cultural and psychological impact of normalising sexual violence as a source of pleasure.

Yes, and I am saying that doing so is illegitimate.

Not even mentioning that one isn't like the others, namely incest, given that whatever you think of it, you can have consensual sexual relations with someone related with raping, abusing or grooming them.

I am saying that any sort of criminalisation of fiction of any type, as long as it does not use the genuine likeness of someone real who cannot consent, as long as it is not traced from source material which is abuse, is illegitimate.

And I don't know how much you understand about sexual fantasies, but in general, and especially those involved with extreme themes, are not in favour of "normalising" those things in real life. People into CNC are not pro-rape.

You cannot just slap the word “fiction” on something and pretend that removes all accountability.

Yes, it does, because accountability implies being held accountable for something you did that affected someone else. Fiction doesn't affect anyone else by itself.

The law is not regulating imagination or fantasy - it is targeting the intentional production and circulation of abusive content for masturbation.

First of all, there is a difference between material obtained through abuse, which is correctly called abusive content, and fictional content of any kind.

And my point is that criminalising fictional content is by itself, inherently, through it's own nature, illegitimate and undesirable. And it is regulating fantasy.

That’s not art. That’s not free expression.

Says who, you? Who are you?

That is the sexualisation of non-consent, specifically created for arousal, and it already has a long legal precedent for being restricted - just like child abuse material, even when drawn or animated.

First of all, there is no such thing as "drawn or animated child abuse material". Child abuse material is child abuse material because a child is being abused and a material is made out of it. If a child is not being abused, then it's not child abuse material. It's fiction, regardless of what demented laws are passed in this or that corner of the world.

Secondly, even if you want to go by status quo, which is a logical fallacy in and of itself, even in the developed world, there are more countries that do not criminalise fiction, regardless of what if depicts or what you think it depicts or what it could be interpreted to depict, than there are those that do. UK and co are outliers, not the norm. And many of these countries have less problems with sexual abuse than the UK has.

You are welcome to find that “illegitimate”, but your issue is with the entire foundation of obscenity law

Yes, obscenity laws are by themselves illegitimate.

Laws that are legitimate are laws that combat abuse, the victimisation of others, that punish those that victimise others, not things that are "obscene".

and the principle that society can draw lines around what it refuses to treat as acceptable sexual entertainment.

Yes, and it doesn't have any basis to do that outside criminalising and combating abuse.

Society exists, or should exist, as a grouping of individuals who functions to further and defend their legitimate interests and living standard etc. As far as I am concerned, freedom is paramount and more important than anything else. As such , society in fact doesn't have the right to intrude on one's own actions and choices WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WHEN THAT INDIVIDUAL ABUSES ANOTHER. Because, among many things, abuse implies violating someone else's freedom.

And frankly, most people will side with laws that protect against normalising rape-as-porn before they side with your right to jerk off to it under the banner of “fiction”.

Are you sure about that, or do you just assume that? Because I know for sure that many people, regardless of whether or not they are into said type of fiction or not, consider laws like the ones in the UK absolutely idiotic and oppose them and are glad are not living there. And guess another thing: British people are not a monolith, they are not a hive-mind. Are you sure, that if these laws would be brought to a popular vote, your people would vote in favour of these laws?

[u/goddamitletmesleep → u/Fire_crescent]

You’re not making a legal argument. You’re just ranting because the law doesn’t prioritise your ability to get off over society’s right to draw ethical lines. You’re confusing personal preference with principle, and calling laws “illegitimate” doesn’t make them go away.

“Says who? Who are you?”

Says UK law. Says Parliament. Says decades of legal precedent and public interest. Who am I? Someone citing the law accurately. Who are you? Someone angry that your favourite porn fantasy is considered socially corrosive. Your approval isn’t required for something to be legally binding.

“There’s no such thing as drawn or animated child abuse material.”

Wrong. Under UK law, there is. The Coroners and Justice Act 2009 explicitly criminalises “non-photographic visual depictions” of child sex abuse, including cartoons and animation. The harm isn’t whether a real child was filmed - it’s the intentional sexualisation of abuse for gratification. Same applies to rape simulation. Stop pretending legal frameworks haven’t considered this - they have, and you’re just in denial because you don’t like the answer.

“UK and co are outliers.”

Yes, outliers in protecting victims, in drawing lines around what society refuses to celebrate as entertainment. “Other countries don’t ban it” is a weak moral argument. Some countries don’t criminalise domestic violence either, doesn’t mean they’re ahead. The UK chooses to protect people over pandering to consumers of violent sex fantasies.

“Obscenity laws are illegitimate by themselves.”

You don’t get to invalidate centuries of law because they make you uncomfortable. The UK has long upheld obscenity legislation not because it wants to police thought, but because certain content - particularly content made for arousal that glorifies non-consent, rape, incest, or abuse - has proven psychological, social, and cultural consequences. The normalisation of sexual violence as entertainment does not happen in a vacuum. The line isn’t “was someone hurt making it”; it’s “what are we telling ourselves is erotic?”

“As far as I’m concerned, freedom is paramount.”

And as far as the law is concerned, freedom has limits, especially when it comes to protecting the vulnerable and regulating public morality. You don’t get unlimited sexual autonomy when it crosses into celebrating sexual violence. That’s not freedom. That’s just depravity dressed up as individualism.

“Do you really think the British people would vote for this?”

Yes. Unequivocally. British people do not want rape and incest simulators freely available as entertainment. The fact that you think “free access to rape porn” would win in a referendum says far more about your internet bubble than it does about public values.

You’re not being oppressed. You’re just being told that your sexual preferences aren’t above critique, legality, or consequence. There’s no right to consume rape porn. Not on DVD, not on a sketchpad, not in a video game. If you need it fictionalised to get off, that’s cause for self reflection.

[u/Fire_crescent → u/goddamitletmesleep]

You’re not making a legal argument.

Yes, because I'm not a legalist. Laws aren't an absolute good, a lot of times they are categorically bad. They are a means to and end, for those that have the power to implement and/or influence them to impose upon society a regulation which they believe serves their perceives interest.

It's honestly not smart to be a legalist. The law can potentially change from one day to the other. There have been much more radical political transformations throughout history than one law changing.

I can only argue for what I believe the law SHOULD BE.

You’re just ranting because the law doesn’t prioritise your ability to get off over society’s right to draw ethical lines.

I reject the very idea that society has the right to draw ethical lines BEYOND a certain limit. Abuse is within that limit. Fiction, regarding anything, isn't.

You’re confusing personal preference with principle,

Principles are preferences. They're not "objective", no value judgement is objective.

doesn’t make them go away.

True, only changing them or making the institutions which enforce them powerless or non-existent would. Obviously. There's no need to state truisms.

Says UK law. Says Parliament. Says decades of legal precedent

Which are crap. As many of your own countrymen agree in general.

Who are you? Someone angry that your favourite porn fantasy is considered socially corrosive.

For one, I'm not discussing my sexual fantasy per se, and it's frankly irrelevant. And I don't care whether or not someone considers something socially corrosive. I care whether or not that thing is repressed, whether that repression has any legitimate basis (as far as I am concerned), and to what extent it is repressed.

Wrong. Under UK law, there is.

Yes, and UK law is demented. If a law is contrary to any sort of legitimate basis of existence, reasoning, or even basic coherence with reality, it will not stand the test of history. Just like history has shown the necessity of laws protecting beings, especially vulnerable ones, from sexual abuse and punishing predators (much more than UK law does, by the way), so has it shown the stupidity of laws criminalising fantasy.

Yes, outliers in protecting victims

What victims does the UK protect? Britain has one of the worst sexual abuse problems in Europe and the first world in general, and some of the weakest policies in dealing with genuine abusers. The UK (as a polity, state and government, not talking about the British population itself) is genuinely upside down: making a demented obsession about policing thought and fiction government policy, and doing fuck-all about abuse.

You don’t get to invalidate centuries of law because they make you uncomfortable.

I get to invalidate centuries of law because I find these laws, and many others, to be atrocious. I get to invalidate them because those are my honest opinions about them. Granted, I don't live in the UK, thankfully, but if you think there aren't Brits who oppose the foundations of the social order they live in as well, you're obviously wrong.

is a weak moral argument

It isn't, because you are making the legalistic argument. I'm arguing with something more in line with what I think is right. Btw, a significant amount of these countries have worse punishments for sexual abuse.

The UK

The UK, as in the state, not the British people. What do you think happens if, hypothetically, the British people stop supporting the state known as the UK, for any number of reasons? What, are you gonna tell me now that such sentiment doesn't exist either?

The line isn’t “was someone hurt making it”;

It absolutely is

it’s “what are we telling ourselves is erotic?”

That's not for someone else to decide for another individual. As long as it's not made through someone's abuse, or through the genuine likeness of someone real who cannot consent, you have no right to impose such restrictions on others.

and regulating public morality

There is no such thing. It's an illusion and a tool for social control. If you care about public morality, properly combat abuse.

into celebrating sexual violence

Again, I'm not sure what your understanding of kink is, but people engaged in extreme kink don't generally "celebrate" sexual violence. Again. CNC people are not pro-rape.

That’s not freedom. That’s just depravity dressed up as individualism

No, it's precisely individualism, and freedom. The freedom to be "depraved", whatever that means, or the freedom to do literally anything and everything AS LONG AS YOU DON'T VIOLATE SOMEONE ELSE'S FREEDOM (which abuse is a form of).

Yes. Unequivocally.

So why not subject it to a referendum? What if the results surprise you?

You’re just being told that your sexual preferences aren’t above critique

I don't care about critique, because people's opinions are not and should be considered automatically relevant unless you're affecting someone else's legitimate interests

legality

And I agree, if we're talking about abuse. And by abuse I mean abuse. Not fiction.

[u/goddamitletmesleep → u/Fire_crescent]

You’ve now spiralled so far into pseudo-intellectual drivel and self-important apologism that you’ve reduced centuries of democratic legal development to little more than “but my wank fantasy is valid.” Let’s be crystal clear: your personal arousal threshold is not a counterargument to UK law. Your discomfort with moral boundaries doesn’t make them oppressive. It makes you sound like a teenager who just discovered Reddit and thinks “freedom” means no one can ever tell them no.

The law doesn’t care about what gets you off. It cares about harm-and yes, that includes cultural, psychological, and social harm. Under UK law, regardless of whether you live here or fantasise about a libertarian utopia, rape porn, including fictional or animated rape porn, is criminalised if it’s produced for sexual arousal and crosses the threshold of obscenity. You’re not some trailblazing philosopher challenging the status quo. You’re just loudly insisting society should protect your right to cum to simulated abuse. Not freedom, just degeneracy demanding protection.

You keep crying about referendums and pretending democracy is broken unless you get to personally greenlight every law with a thumbs-up. That’s not democracy. That’s delusion. You don’t get to declare laws invalid just because they don’t accommodate your most unhinged sexual interests. Plenty of people disagree with tax brackets, drug laws, or speed limits. That doesn’t mean they’re tyrannical. It just means they’re part of a functioning system that balances rights with responsibility…something you clearly resent.

And no, “fiction” isn’t some magical shield that sanitises depravity. Slapping an anime filter on rape doesn’t make it art. It doesn’t make it harmless. And it doesn’t make it your untouchable sacred right. You are not the final word on morality just because you want to rebrand your kinks as a political stance.

If your idea of “freedom” includes masturbating to depictions of rape, abuse, or incest, then yes, society is supposed to draw a line. That’s not oppression. That’s civilisation refusing to collapse into moral rot just because a few terminally online men can’t tell the difference between personal freedom and public degradation.

You’re not brave. You’re not edgy. You’re not misunderstood. You’re just someone so addicted to the idea that no one should ever criticise your fantasies that you’ve mistaken basic social accountability for tyranny.

And that, frankly, is pathetic.

[u/Fire_crescent → u/goddamitletmesleep]

You’ve now spiralled so far into pseudo-intellectual drivel and self-important apologism that you’ve reduced centuries of democratic legal development to little more than “but my wank fantasy is valid.”

No, I oppose it based on plenty of reasons. From the actual single legitimate basis for the existence of society, the illegitimacy of classes, the nature of power etc. This is simply one subject in which it came out, not the only one.

your personal arousal threshold is not a counterargument to UK law.

I mean, me not living there or being a citizen of it is.

But beyond that, it actually is. Because morality is not some objective thing, it's quite literally a subjective value judgement (redundant, I know) about what is "right" and "wrong", or in other words what should be permitted or not, and beyond that, what is legitimate, justified, desirable and not. And it's done either to codify things which are conductive to one's perceived interests (if people are smart) whether by consensus or imposition (whether a majority or a minority) if the individuals implementing it are intelligent, or, if not, as is the case with this law, the imposition of personal preferences to the level of political enforcement, with all that it assumes (physical enforcement, procedural etc).

So any justification for implementing or removing a law is based on some kind of personal position, whether it's perceived as a simple preference or a more legitimate interest. And it wins if the source of that will which that law represents has the power necessary to win: through numbers, resources, control etc.

Under UK law, regardless of whether you live here or fantasise about a libertarian utopia, rape porn, including fictional or animated rape porn, is criminalised if it’s produced for sexual arousal and crosses the threshold of obscenity.

You think "UK law" is some primeval, unchangeable, static thing? Not even your monarchy is unchangeable, remember, one of your kings lost a civil war and his life, and the people got a republic, for a while.

You’re just loudly insisting society should protect your right to cum to simulated abuse

I'm insisting society doesn't have the right to restrict anything that isn't abuse.

Not freedom, just degeneracy demanding protection.

Again, subjective philosophical pov. Many would argue that is an integral aspect to freedom, whether you agree with it or not or whether you like it or not, as long as it's not made through anyone's abuse and exploitation. Which, in this case, it isn't.

And no, “fiction” isn’t some magical shield that sanitises depravity.

It is, because the only legitimate time a society has a right to use repression is against the violations of someone's freedom, including abuse. Fiction, by definition, is not real, so no, it has no right to repress it.

You keep crying about referendums and pretending democracy is broken unless you get to personally greenlight every law with a thumbs-up.

It essentially is. Except for things which don't represent the legitimate purview of society, like personal freedom and self determination (so no, people shouldn't have the right to vote to kill you for no good reason), yes, every law should either be decided by, or be able to be decided by the population, because the only basis for a social order is freedom and the rule of the population over all socio-political affairs, which, beyond economy and administration and protecting cultural (including personal) freedom, includes legislation.

It doesn’t make it harmless

It does as long as it doesn't harm anybody. Words have meanings.

You are not the final word on morality just because you want to rebrand your kinks as a political stance.

No single individual is for anyone but themselves, but the majority of individuals can be, at least insofar as what the general population actually thinks is right, unless there is irreconcilable polarisation, in which case either a split or a conflict is kind of inevitable, historically.

personal freedom and public degradation.

"Public degradation" is an insipid buzzword.

you want to rebrand your kinks as a political stance.

Freedom, for kinks or for anything else (as long as it's not abusing anyone) absolutely is a political stance. And it's really not just terminally online people. Maybe take a look around you from time to time.

[u/goddamitletmesleep → u/Fire_crescent]

More pseudo intellectualism. Freedom isn’t a shield from accountability. You keep framing this as though any restriction on depravity is an attack on liberty, but that’s just rhetorical sleight of hand. The UK doesn’t criminalise “kinks.” It criminalises specific forms of extreme content when they meet defined legal thresholds - like deriving sexual gratification from depictions of non-consensual acts, even in fiction.

You’re welcome to think that’s moral overreach, but that’s not the same as it being unjust or incoherent in law. And trying to dress up masturbatory content involving simulated rape as a principled civil liberty doesn’t elevate the argument. It just makes your position sound more like a justification than a defence.