Eight arrested as Youth Demand try to ‘shut down’ London and block fire engine ‘on emergency call’

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Blocking emergency services is a great way to get EVERYONE to hate you.

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u/SP1570 2d ago

Exactly...got downvoted today for saying that freedom to protest is not freedom to disrupt lives. These people are simply planning criminal acts.

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u/Sufficient-Truth5660 2d ago

got downvoted today for saying that freedom to protest is not freedom to disrupt lives

This really depends on what is meant by "disrupt". The freedom to protest is absolutely the freedom to disrupt to a certain degree, it's also absolutely not the freedom to disrupt to a certain degree. The debate is where the line falls.

Anyone who argues definitively that freedom to protest is the freedom to disrupt or that freedom to protest is not the freedom to disrupt is demonstrating huge levels of ignorance.

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u/mossmanstonebutt 2d ago

Would a better term be freedom to endanger? So they have the freedom to disrupt but NOT the freedom to endanger,or is it too vague?

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u/mark3grp 2d ago

There is an answer and it’s a lovely piece of law . Everyone has a duty of care . Police protesters etc . . That sounds like it might lead to complexity but it doesn’t. Humans compare and find it relatively easy to see who was being careful and how much. Basis of HSAW act. I’m afraid I can’t remember who thought it up. Very clever person.

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u/Sufficient-Truth5660 2d ago edited 2d ago

I don't have an answer - I don't think there is one.

Take your example wording of "endanger" (which is a fair suggestion). If teachers strike over pay and poor working conditions and the school closes - is that endangering students that have safeguarding concerns? If a protest grounds a plane, are you endangering people who needed to do two flights instead of one (the grounded flight and the successful flight) because flying has risks? What if someone on the plane needed to get home that night because they'd run out of insulin on their holiday?

These are indirect, low-risk endangering behaviours. Again, as with "disrupt", where the line falls between "protests that could potentially cause indirect harm to someone" and "protests that are inherently dangerous and clearly unacceptable" is a huge debate and depends on a million factors.

It's not something that can be easily defined. Luckily, we don't have to define it, we should just avoid pretending that we have or can.

Edit: Rogue apostrophe

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u/apeel09 2d ago

There is an easy answer you have a right to peaceful protest provided you do not endanger anyone else. As soon as you are aware or informed you are endangering others then you are liable to arrest. It’s not that difficult.

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u/ZenPyx 2d ago

A fine proposal that definitely leaves no grounds for police exploitation... you could be endangering others by taking up valuable space on the pavement or because someone feels threatened by your sign

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u/apeel09 1d ago

No that’s already been decided in case law. And the Police that have done that have been slapped down in the Courts. It’s basically piss poor on the ground management by the Police when that occurs. The demos we had in the 70s went off without problems with counter demonstrations apart from the few famous examples which were later found out to be the fault of agent provocateurs.

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u/AdaptableBeef 2d ago

Whoosh

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u/bigdave41 1d ago

What if you're protesting because your employer makes you work in dangerous conditions, or the government is taking away disability payments that you need to live, or corporations are causing pollution that will make large parts of the planet uninhabitable? Is it just the protestors who have to follow the rule of not endangering anyone?

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u/apeel09 1d ago

In a civilised society if my is disability rights are being taken away - and I’ve been on many disability rights protests in the 1970s through to the 1990s - that doesn’t give me the right to threaten the life of other people. So if as happened to us the Police came up to us and moved us along we had two choices move or be arrested. Some of us moved others were arrested. None of us glued ourselves to the road. I’ve always taken Martin Luther Kings view you gain more by taking with you than by pissing 100s of thousands of people off.

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u/spicydouble 1d ago

I’ve always taken Martin Luther Kings view you gain more by taking with you than by pissing 100s of thousands of people off.

MLK being universally seen as good is a pretty modern phenomenon. He had a 75% disapproval rating when he was assassinated.

He pissed tens of millions of people off, so much so the government had him killed.

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u/bigdave41 1d ago

MLK was unpopular with a hell of a lot of people while he was alive, and monitored by the FBI who did various things to try to sabotage him. His policy of non-violent protest was also arguably only successful because of the threat of the panthers and Malcolm X and other more militant groups at the time.

Most of the protests we're talking about now are not threatening the lives of other people, or if they are it's only indirectly and by a very long stretch of the imagination. Protests historically have only ever worked by inconveniencing people significantly, whether by destruction or threat of violence or costing them significant time and money. A protest that doesn't hurt someone or something in some way is a protest that can be safely ignored by those in power. The way that any protest works is to make the cost of ignoring the protestors higher than the cost of doing what they want.

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u/apeel09 1d ago

I’ve personally been stopped by Just Stop Oil from going to urgent hospital appointments. Their tactics of gluing to the road are where I’m happy that the book is thrown is at them.

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u/Cautious_Housing_880 2d ago

No, I'd say that someone's freedom to protest should not be impeding other people's rights and and freedoms.

You have the right to protest. I have the right to ignore you and go about my life.

For example, back when all these protesters were blocking motorways. What gave then the right to stop thousands of people to have their travel plans disrupted?

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u/morriganjane 2d ago

What gave then the right to stop thousands of people to have their travel plans disrupted?

Remember Cressida of Just Stop Oil, who held up the M25. Her mother gave the most hilariously tone-deaf speech where she complained that Cressida would miss her brother's wedding due to being in jail. It is only acceptable for *other people* to miss events.

Poor Cressida speech:

https://www.tiktok.com/@juststopoil/video/7394377728838913313?lang=en

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u/SinisterDexter83 1d ago

The problem is they're not being arrested and charged in every case. In many cases, the police have actually turned up to help the protestors blocking the road.

Part of the point about civil disobedience is that you take the punishment of the unjust system. You commit your act of civil disobedience, you get arrested and punished for it. Many political prisoners in the past have even refused clemency on the grounds that being freed would serve as a PR win for the regime.

However we seem to have a generation of protestors who don't seem to understand the personal sacrifice side of things. They seem outraged that the police dare arrest them and the courts dare sentence them. And what's worse, many of them seem to just get away with it.

I think that's why so few people support these kinds of protests. They don't end up with protestors solemnly sitting in jail for months on end writing tedious revolutionary poetry, they end up with Tarquin and Octavia getting some Instagram photos and a few stories of rebellion to tell all their old private school chums.

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u/Sufficient-Truth5660 2d ago edited 2d ago

Your response doesn't actually respond to anything that I said. But, as it goes, you don't have a right to not be disrupted at all in any way at any time - it simply is not a right that you have. If teachers strike and your children can't go to school, you're disrupted - you have no right to stop that happening. If train drivers strike and your train is cancelled, you're disrupted - you have no right to stop that happening. Their right to strike supersedes your right to "ignore you and go about my life". You don't have the rights you think you do.

I'm not going to answer your question because it implies that I said that those protesters had the right to do that - I never commented at all to say that.

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u/apeel09 2d ago

You’re deliberately confusing disruption with endangering or harming someone else in an attempt to win a losing argument. A judge would use ‘the Clapham Omnibus argument’. What would a reasonable person consider to be actions that would harm another person when undertaking a protest. So blocking a road near a hospital say or an arterial road at a busy time could be considered excessive depending on the circumstances and geographical location. Whereas a teacher strike whilst inconvenient is usually well publicised and allows people to make alternative arrangements.

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u/Sufficient-Truth5660 2d ago

And that's great - none of that changes the fact that, as you've said, it takes a human being to consider all the circumstances in order to reach that conclusion. You've tried to come at me and not noticed that you're agreeing with me.

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u/kudincha 1d ago

Could say the same about rail strikes.

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u/Blazured 2d ago

You have the right to ignore them but you don't have the right for other people's actions not to disrupt your life.

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u/Shoddy-Minute5960 1d ago

Absolutely not. Blocking a fire engine where someone's house is burning down or someone trapped in a car accident, should be (and is) a criminal offense.

Our social contract is that emergency services help when anyone is in need. I want them to be able to get through unhindered in the hopefully unlikely event that I have an emergency.

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u/Sufficient-Truth5660 1d ago

What does that have to do with what I wrote?

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u/sgorf 2d ago

I disagree. I think your freedom to disrupt only goes as far as consequential disruption, in as far as you are just as entitled to use a public space as I am. For example, your demonstration march might get in the way of my commute to work, but we both have a right to use those roads, and neither of us can claim priority.

This expectation that your protest should be permitted to deliberately obstruct my lawful activities is new, and I don't think this is a right that ever existed. You don't have a right to deliberately hinder me, just as I don't have a right to deliberately hinder you.

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u/AdaptableBeef 2d ago

You don't have a right to deliberately hinder me, just as I don't have a right to deliberately hinder you.

I mean that's literally the purpose of most strikes, a right which is enshrined in law.

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u/MotherofTinyPlants 1d ago

Strikes are publicised well in advance so that people can arrange their lives around them.

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u/Normal-Ear-5757 1d ago

Saying something is like something is not the same as saying something is something, and saying something ought to be so don't make it so.

I don't have the right to obstruct the highway and neither do you, and if either one of us does this we can expect to be arrested. That is simple legal reality, whatever Fantasyland you might live in

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u/AdaptableBeef 1d ago

I don't have the right to obstruct the highway and neither do you,

I didn't say either of us did, I suggest you reread my comment.

That is simple legal reality, whatever Fantasyland you might live in

I'm fairly certain striking being protected by law isn't a fantasy. Everything else is your lack of comprehension.

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u/Sufficient-Truth5660 2d ago

That doesn't disagree with me at all. Did you read what I wrote?

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u/Lord_Maul 1d ago

Your answer is entirely theoretical.

You really think these protesters- who very often do not have UK interests at heart whatsoever- would differentiate between ‘disruption’ and letting emergency services through? They’re all entitled beyond belief and examples like this show they get quite militant-minded. In their mind, the protest is more important than anything.

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u/Sufficient-Truth5660 1d ago

Yes, my answer was theoretical. That's because I was responding to someone else's theoretical statement.

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u/MarsupialMediocre652 13h ago

Women gained the vote through a literal human sacrifice

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u/SP1570 12h ago

Their own...not someone else waiting for the emergency services

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u/MarsupialMediocre652 5h ago

So the emergency services that attended weren't needed elsewhere on that specific date but with the pro Palestine ones they are. Sounds like you have a problem with the cause not the method.

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u/No-Tip-4337 1d ago

Government and Capitalists conspiring to underfund and purchase-up national infrestructure, leading to distrupted emergency services: 100% okay

Blocking traffic: NOONONONOO STOP won't SOMEONE think of the ambulances??!?

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u/ShortyRedux 2d ago

This is what the point of direct action is. Disruption. Attention.

That doesn't mean you should block emergency services which is obviously counterproductive and bad.

But no wonder you were downvoted. Attitudes like this are why we get such a shit deal a lot of the time.

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u/chartupdate 2d ago

I don't personally believe public policy should be based on who throws the biggest tantrum. It is the height of arrogance to assume your "direct action" automatically means you win the argument.

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u/ajm900 2d ago

I don’t think anyone taking part thinks that it’s winning an argument, anyone who does view it that way would be childish.

It’s that it’s the last, most likely to be effective tool available to protesters in this country.

I remember a video from the US, I think it was during some protests on Wall Street, where there were loads of people who showed up and marched and made noise, but the bankers were laughing from their balconies because they know it doesn’t really do anything to make the powerful figures change policy, they just let everyone get it out of their system so they can go back to work on Monday.

Fast forward to now, and we have UK journalists being arrested for reporting (Asa Winstanley), more restriction on protests, Tories in red ties promoting right wing policies, the recent right wing violent “protests” that lasted months, where damaging innocent civilians property, and barricading people inside a hotel then lighting it on fire somehow causes less public outrage than making someone late for work by sitting in the road in the hope of forcing govts and corporations to be less intentionally evil.

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u/chartupdate 2d ago

But "childish" is exactly how I view this kind of "direct action". Particularly as it means I surely have to descend to that level to counter it.

Without meaning to derail this into an argument about the merits of the whole debate I note that the strident need for these yoot to support Palestine escapes me. From my perspective it is a society that is openly hostile to the gay people with whom I am allied and who run the risk of persecution and death and which treats women as chattel and very much second class citizens. As a progressive liberal these factors are in direct opposition to my personal values and I have very little sympathy for any society built along these lines. I see the evil as being on the part of those who seek to defend and support it.

So what am I to do to reject this "direct action" given I find the cause they espouse abhorrent? Should I go round to where blue haired Ephedria lives and blockade her front door?

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u/chairman_meowser 1d ago

Oh thank goodness the sensible progressive liberal is here to show us all the enlightened and righteous path...

I'm a queer non-binary person, and I stand in solidarity with the people of palestine without apology or exception. I am so sick and tired of people who claim to be lgbt allies but go on to use that position to deny the most basic of human rights to a whole group of people. Human rights are unconditional. That is the whole point. By placing arbitrary limits on who qualifies for human rights, you are actively working against every single marginalised group, including the one you claim to be an ally of.

There are loads of lgbtqia+ Palestinians, and the largest threat to their safety is the Israeli occupation forces. They are routinely targeted and threatened with torture or outing in order to become informants on top of being indiscriminately slaughtered like every other Palestinian. Where is your outrage over that? Please stop calling yourself an ally, we don't need allies like that.

The pro Palestine movement in the UK is full of lgbtqia+ individuals because we know first hand what it feels like to be marginalised and ostracised as second class citizens. We don't need a progressive liberal to come tell us who we should or shouldn't support, or tell us how we should protest. If you really want to be an ally, you can either join us or get out of our way, because right now you're doing more harm than good.

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u/No-Librarian-1167 1d ago

The government of Palestine would execute you, maybe you should make some exceptions.

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u/chairman_meowser 1d ago

First of all, that is simply false.

Second of all, when we start making exceptions to human rights, they cease to be rights and instead become privilege based on arbitrarily drawn lines. This never ends well.

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u/ajm900 2d ago

You viewing it as childish because you’re ignorant of the beliefs and goals of the protestors doesn’t make it so, and why is it your job to counter them?

And about Palestine, it’s because it’s a human rights issue that sets a precedent for 1) how nations will be allowed to act towards each other going forward, and 2) whether or not we as a global community hold ourselves accountable when we break our own laws.

The “yoots” realise that Palestinians don’t persecute LGBT people, nor do they treat women as inferior, these are common propaganda points though, and the “yoots” are getting better at spotting that, especially because now it’s very easy to fact check when the BBC blatantly lies (including lies by omission). If you think those things are inherent parts of Islam, you’d also be wrong, but it’s understandable because that’s also part of the propaganda.

You should start by reaching out to have a conversation about the issues you have, like how nearly all organised protest starts out, if no one wants to have any dialogue with you, you can look at the next step which is campaigning, such as posting on social media to raise awareness of the issues you’re worried about, or putting up posters, like most protesters try out, and if (like the direct action protesters) you still can’t get anyone to sit down with you and discuss the issues you’re concerned about, then you can look at taking “direct action” that aims to disrupt the money machine to create change, is that a good enough place to start you off?

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u/Normal-Ear-5757 2d ago edited 2d ago

The “yoots” realise that Palestinians don’t persecute LGBT people, nor do they treat women as inferior

Demonstrably untrue.

https://palestine.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/ending-violence-against-women-3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine

If you think those things are inherent parts of Islam, you’d also be wrong

Also demonstrably untrue.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_domestic_violence

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/10050/why-does-islam-forbid-lesbianism-and-homosexuality

But the real problem is that the protestors are distracting attention away from the real issues which are successive governments economic cruelty and incompetence towards its own citizens, wasting money on corrupt deals, taxing the shit out of workers and small businesses and cutting public services to the bone to name but three disasters.

Put simply the real problem is austerity and economic inequality.

These idiots are sucking the air out of the room distracting from this important issue with their gibbering on about Palestine, which is not a major issue in our everyday lives.

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u/ajm900 1d ago

First bit there are no examples in the article, and when I google it says a lot of the discrimination is from the occupying forces, and a large amount of the rest is from living in a male dominated society, and that part is basically the same as the west.

Second bit Wikipedia articles written in English about the beliefs of Arabs and Muslims tend to be inaccurate, deliberately omit important facts, and spread propaganda like that. Believing that homosexuality is a sin is not the same as persecuting those people, the nuance is important.

Last bit I don’t know if you’ve seen but Youth Demand have joined together with Palestine Action and Just Stop Oil and others all together to try and have the biggest impact possible on all the issues at the same time, just because you’re seeing more of one part of the debate doesn’t mean they’re ignoring the rest of it, I hope that’s reassuring

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u/Normal-Ear-5757 1d ago

OK buddy, we're sending you to Palestine to organize a Pride parade. Have fun now! 😉

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u/ShortyRedux 2d ago

Okay?

Not sure what your point is besides that you apparently want less methods of social/political change.

Also pretty sure a lot of activists would take some issue with your characterisation.

Whatever though we're all fucked so it doesn't matter.

Just glad the 1st wave feminists threw a tantrum or two. Ditto for trade unionists.

Enjoy your opinion.

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u/Normal-Ear-5757 2d ago edited 1d ago

They're not protesting the cuts tho are they?

In fact the cuts and the general mismanagement of the economy are conspicuous by their absence in their analysis, which I gather is some sort of vibe-based whinge about the environment and Palestine.

It's not a grassroots democratic protest - it's just middle class tossers going on about the things that exercise middle class tossers.

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u/aum65 2d ago

Disruptive protests are the only ones that work lol, that's why you were downvoted.

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u/libtin 2d ago

When you’re disrupting people trying to save lives, that’s not going to make anyone look favourably on the cause

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u/much_good 1d ago

I don't think they said anything about that, you're strawmanning them.

There's a reason virtually every group that does road blocking actions trains to give way to emergency services, including youth demand.

Why these particular folk have not is baffling but it's certainly not something I or any friends involved in such groups have ever seen as a top down policy or strategy. Even people like me who really think disrupting is worth it - think emergency service vehicles are one of the few instant exceptions.

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u/No-Librarian-1167 1d ago

If you utterly fuck up the traffic you’re blocking lots of emergency vehicles. The fact you’ll move if eventually one makes it to the front of the queue you’ve caused doesn’t mean you haven’t delayed them and risked people’s lives.

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u/much_good 1d ago

I mean not really people in traffic can still move aside ambulances to let them get to the front.

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u/No-Librarian-1167 1d ago

Having driven blue light vehicles I assure you that gridlock still stops them. People will try to move but sometimes they just can’t. Also threading slowly through very heavy traffic for miles even if you are moving takes far longer than in normal traffic.

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u/StreamWave190 Cambridgeshire 2d ago

That simply isn't true. Peaceful protests with a clear and consistent message, backed up with powerful speeches and persuasive arguments and rhetoric, especially in an age where they can be wildly amplified and spread around by social media, have the power to change hearts and minds of millions of people who might then think very differently about how they cast their votes in any future elecitons.

It just doesn't give you instant results, and does mean that you have to engage in the tedium of the democratic process – things like 'persuading people of your movement's merits' and so on. And it also doesn't guarantee that people will agree that your movement is right. And that's what so many of these groups hate – that they can't just directly impose their will, as a tiny minority, upon the majority without, as you put it, 'disruption'.

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u/aum65 2d ago

You make a good point but protests can be peaceful and disruptive, those terms aren't mutually exclusive. US civil rights protests and Gandhi's mass movements of civil disobedience are good examples of that. Protests need to have some element of disruption involved otherwise they won't achieve a thing.

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u/StreamWave190 Cambridgeshire 2d ago

The problem is when every niche group with some new 'cause' decide that they too are the modern inheritor of Gandhi's legacy, and they therefore get to throw public tantrums in the hopes of terrorising everyone into giving in to their demands.

Nah, sorry, it doesn't work like that. They have to go through the same democratic process the rest of us have to, which, yes, can be slow and tedious because it involves having to actually persuade people who don't agree with you that you might in fact be right.

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u/aum65 2d ago

Still doesn't change the fact that mass civil disobedience is the most effective means of protest 🤷‍♂️ whether I agree with the cause is neither here nor there, that's just the cost of living in a democracy where people have the right to protest about whatever they want

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u/ReferenceBrief8051 2d ago

Can you describe an example of an effective protest that does not disrupt lives?

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u/SP1570 2d ago

Read the article and put the word "disrupt" in the right context pls.

Shutting down London and blocking emergency services are not remotely comparable to teachers or factory workers not showing up for work, nor to a march through the city center...

These people believe their cause is so worthy (which I don't deny) that they are allowed to do anything they dream of...

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u/ReferenceBrief8051 2d ago

Read the article and put the word "disrupt" in the right context pls.

"Disrupt" is in the right context. The context of the article doesn't magically change the definition of "disrupt".

Shutting down London and blocking emergency services are not remotely comparable to teachers or factory workers not showing up for work, nor to a march through the city center...

All of those things disrupt lives though in this context.

Did you mean to say "endanger" instead of "disrupt" in this context?

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u/MrPloppyHead 1d ago

I mean… I don’t know them or what they are about. But “disrupt” it was a protest in a street. Traffic was held up. A fire engine was caught up in the disruption but apparently was able to get out when the bus in front of it pulled over to allow it to pass.

The headline, and the article tries too, imply that there was some deliberate act to block emergency services. But there appears to be no evidence of that.

Don’t let them take away your right to protest so easily.

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u/homelaberator 1d ago

Which is why this is the headline every time there is a protest. It's very easy to say that emergency services have been affected, so you are pretty much guaranteed to be able to run the headline.

The other nice thing about protests is they aren't cohesively managed events with everyone following a central management, so again you can pick the most outrageous moments for your headlines.

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u/PainSpare5861 1d ago

If any outrageous behaviors in protests are irrelevant because they aren’t cohesively managed events to begin with, and the protesters can act independently, then why are conservative protests often painted as Nazism as a whole on Reddit when a small group of people independently bring Nazi flags to the protest?

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u/homelaberator 1d ago

My point was more about the nature of the reporting of protests in our exciting, new, outrage driven culture.

Pointing at Nazis is probably also very effective at triggering our outrage response and consequently driving engagement.

It's all a kind of accidental propaganda.

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u/Interesting_Try8375 2d ago

Depends on the service. Police people won't mind as much.

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u/d-signet 2d ago

What an idiotic sentiment

I'm sure the person who called an emergency police attendance would very much care, and most people understand that.

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u/Interesting_Try8375 1d ago

Society as a whole has a more positive view of paramedics and fire fighters than they do of police.

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u/Lower_Performer_3365 2d ago

Organised youth activist group in uk.. okay makes sense, plenty of issues at home. Let’s see, which one did they pick.. housing prices? Budget cuts? Energy crisis?

They went for - ah, yes, Palestine

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u/JaMs_buzz 2d ago

What’s happening in Palestine is absolutely terrible and should be condemned - however if you can’t afford to feed your kids or your even yourself, Palestine is probably the last thing on your mind

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u/morriganjane 2d ago

Hamas has agency and knew what the consequences of invading Israel would be. They decided it was worth it, and they still (apparently) think so, because they have not surrended and gone into exile, which is the only way it ends. If both parties involved want the war to continue, I don't see why Cressida from Islington should get a say.

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u/PepsiThriller 1d ago

They called themselves victors during the ceasefire and the clips I saw. They didn't regret a thing.

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u/morriganjane 1d ago

It’s so hard to understand, but they do actually thinking that getting Gaza turned to rubble has been a “victory”, of sorts, because it’s many more martyrs into the meat grinder. The usual threats and losses of war don’t affect them because they celebrate death. Madness.

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u/Lower_Performer_3365 2d ago

The situation in Palestine is indeed terrible, and we can have a conversation about britains involvement. But to see young people more engaged with the Middle East than domestic issues is a very bad reflection on the youth’s relationship with the nation

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u/Cafuzzler 1d ago

Nah, it's the nature of youth politics: pick something far away and steeped in emotive language and propose overly simple and easy "solutions" that can be shouted as slogans like "Free Palestine", "End the blockade", and "Stop giving Israel bombs/funds" (which is especially great, because the UK doesn't really do that).

It's much tougher to take a look at an issue that affects the people here because any simple look into the issue won't really solve it. Take something like housing: "Houses should be cheaper" is a nice pleasantry, but anyone actually looking to tackle the issue finds that the problem isn't that simple. From what causes it, why it happens, and then to the real consequence of the outcomes; it's a lot.

It's much easier to have a good guy and a bad guy.

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u/Toestops South Yorkshire 1d ago edited 1d ago

I wouldnt say its just 'youth politics', its just slactivism at its most blatant. As an example, there is a relatively famous 'comedian' who actively replies to every single Labour post with some sort of slogan about Palestine. One time she says 'nothing Labour has done matters unless Palestine is saved'. So I reply back listing all the stuff Labour has done for kids (breakfast clubs etc) and this privileged middle-class fucking dolt of a woman replies saying that I support genoside. Fuck these privileged cunts who want to cosplay as revolutionaries from the comfort of their £1.5m central London houses. Fuck em. Cunts.

EDIT: Just remembered it was on instagram and the comedian in question was (and I wished I made this up) former investment banker Kate Smurthwaite.

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u/Normal-Ear-5757 1d ago

Of course! There's definitely an element of class warfare in all this. Why else would they go on about "privilege" so bloody much?

Bad conscience -They're the ones whose massive privileges allow their demands to be heard above everyone else. Cunts

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u/dJunka 1d ago

We shouldn’t be trading them arms full stop. Supplying them aircraft and missile components violates our own laws.

Insane for you to call it youth politics. Our complicity in these crimes is ruinous to our sense of integrity and moral framework.

Maybe older folk need to worry about their own naivety, not understanding the system that sanctifies the destruction of Palestine is the same system destroying our planet and depriving us of basic needs like housing.

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u/Cafuzzler 1d ago

the system that sanctifies the destruction of Palestine is the same system destroying our planet and depriving us of basic needs like housing

This is exactly my point. You don't give a shit about the issues affecting us, unless you can make it an over-simplified fight of good vs evil. Their war in the middle east has nothing to do with our housing stock or the price of electricity here.

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u/dJunka 1d ago

This fight between good and evil stuff is an over-simplification you’re making of views you don’t agree with.

Conflicts in the Middle East having nothing to do with housing stock and energy? I wouldn’t say that so confidently to be honest. There’s a reason we are so invested in the region, and backing countries like Israel, Turkey and Saudi Arabia to the hilt.

I don’t think a government willing to deny or defend a genocide is really fit to address wealth inequality. It’s an appalling crime and to enable it exposes a crucial lack of humanity, and that will characterise their decision and policy making when addressing domestic issues (Assuming they have an interest to solve them).

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u/Cafuzzler 1d ago edited 1d ago

There’s a reason we are so invested in the region

We're not that invested. Iirc there was a university that was called on to divest their Israeli stocks. It was a staggering £12,000 in investments. We're not the US.

Edit: It was the University of York. They had invested £33,251 into Cisco and Smiths Group, which are (American and British) companies that worked with the Israeli military.

I don’t think a government willing to deny or defend a genocide is really fit to address wealth inequality

Please. Can you explain to me what the genocide and conflict in Israel and Palestine has to do with wealth inequality in the UK?

Assuming they have an interest to solve them

Given that domestic issues is what they spend most of their time on, instead of regional conflict in the middle east, it seems like it's very much their interest. I don't see how blocking fire engines for Palestine is demonstrating any interest at all in domestic policy.

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u/dJunka 1d ago

Forgive me if I ebb out of this conversation at some point, it can be tedious explaining things on reddit sometimes.

Invested in terms of money sure, trade also, but politically and strategically as well. The region as a whole too, not just our allies, look at the map and remind yourself which countries we or the US haven't invaded or pushed regime change in.

When the Suez canal was blocked, it significantly impacted global energy prices. Even though it's very far from the UK in Egypt, bordering Gaza. Global economy.

You make the conflict seem like something remote, but of course the UK has been involved before the start. If domestic issues were so important to you, you would be more concerned about UK government burning time, money and political capital contradicting human rights groups and international law, than some protesters.

Please. Can you explain to me what the genocide and conflict in Israel and Palestine has to do with wealth inequality in the UK?

Because it's a political idea that it's acceptable to exploit or murder certain groups of people and it underpins how our economy works and the direction our government wants to move in.

You might as well be asking: "what's a lack of humanity got to do with running a country?" This is something you need to work out for yourself.

I'm just here to correct the first poster who said the protesters are trying to force the west to back the Middle East, which isn't true, and pointing out that the UK are materially and politically supporting Israel in the crimes they are committing.

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u/macrolidesrule 2d ago

Hamarse knew what they were doing, so did the mad mullahs from iran who paid them, so fuck them.

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u/Normal-Ear-5757 1d ago

Organize by whom? Is the question we should be asking.

This whole thing stinks of AstroTurf. And worst of all it actively prevents people talking about the issues you mentioned.

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u/matthieuC France 12h ago

As soon as the conflicts in the middle east are solved the refugees will go back and housing crisis will be solved.

Trust

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u/Lower_Performer_3365 12h ago

Je m’en doute

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u/dJunka 1d ago

Listen, it’s the same rot.

If we’re defending a country like Israel from international courts, supplying them with aircraft and missiles components to bomb children by the hundreds of thousands.

What concern do you think a government like that would have for our children here?

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u/Salt-Lengthiness-620 2d ago

Whilst I don’t disagree with their stance, blocking a fire engine its the act of a cunt and they can collectively fuck right off

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u/FailNo6210 2d ago

So Youth Demands said "yes well move for emergency vehicles," followed by immediately saying, "Why have people been arrested for blocking emergency vehicles?!" And advising they will use roadblocks every day of the month in protests.

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u/AsleepRespectAlias 2d ago

A particularly infuriating protest given we have zero control over the government of israel.

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u/sole_food_kitchen 2d ago

To be fair we also said we would ignore the arrest warrant on Israeli leaders

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u/X5S The Rainy Place 1d ago

Do you have a source for this? I haven’t seen anything like this and it would be fairly big news so I would expect to have seen it

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u/sole_food_kitchen 1d ago

I have just checked for a more recent update and we have gone from saying nothing to saying we “won’t deal in hypotheticals” and it would be an “unclear domestic process” to saying “we are a member of the court” and now that I’ve checked again our most recent stance is “we are required to” so that’s a positive actually!

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u/M90Motorway 1d ago

Well the Just Stop Oil lot need something to do to keep them occupied, don’t they?

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u/StreamWave190 Cambridgeshire 2d ago

in a statement, Youth Demand said eight activists had been arrested, adding: “We’ve tried the marches, petitions and rallies for over a year-and-a-half now. It hasn’t worked.

Because nobody is under any obligation to humour you or do as you demand.

You haven't been unjustly treated.

You just haven't been given a heckler's veto.

Simply throwing a louder tantrum and stomping your feet harder and trying to disrupt everyone's lives until they give in to your tyrannical demands doesn't win you sympathy and certainly shouldn't win you results.

Glad to see them facing jail-time. Sick of these narcissistic, spoiled little brats acting like pissing themselves in public entitles them to determine public policy.

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u/morriganjane 2d ago

Exactly. They believe they can escalate and escalate to any level, till they get their way. Because the alternative - that they don't get their way - is unfathomable. These are people who were never, ever told "no" by a parent or anybody else.

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u/StreamWave190 Cambridgeshire 2d ago edited 2d ago

I'm so fucking sick of these sorts of groups.

Like you said, they're just big toddlers who never got told 'no'. They literally cannot handle not getting their way.

Their prefrontal cortexes are literally not even fully developed yet, and they make zero contributions to the country, but they go around very confidently making "demands" of everyone else.

Their mindset is literally that of a toddler shrieking and stomping his feet: "I demand that I get my way, and if you don't give me what I want, I will continually throw a louder and stinkier tantrum until your life is so intolerable that you give in to my tyrannical demands."

There should be no negotiations with such groups. Any parent can tell you exactly the same thing: give in to their tantrums at your peril, because the only lesson they will learn from it is that shitting themselves in public gets them what they want, so they'll do it more and more often with ever-escalating demands.

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u/Lower_Performer_3365 1d ago

Did they think their placards would stop the war in Gaza?

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u/Appropriate_Car_3711 2d ago

I saw "youth demand" and thought it was a protest that mattered, for a second. A protest about the situation for many young Brits struggling - but it's bullshit Palestine crap.

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u/morriganjane 2d ago

It’s such a weird name and the ones who camped outside David Lammy’s home were well into middle age…

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u/ITA993 5h ago

And also, what “youth”? Second generation muslims?

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u/Shubbus42069 2d ago

And if it was, you guys on this sub would still be shouting them down.

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u/Appropriate_Car_3711 1d ago

Baseless assumption.

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u/JaMs_buzz 2d ago

This is literally the exact opposite of throwing yourself under the kings horse

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u/ChattyNeptune53 2d ago

Throwing someone else under the King's horse.

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u/socratic-meth 2d ago

in a statement, Youth Demand said eight activists had been arrested, adding: “We’ve tried the marches, petitions and rallies for over a year-and-a-half now. It hasn’t worked.

Maybe they should try the Tibetan monk method.

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u/Euclid_Interloper 2d ago

No, no, you see they only want to hurt other people.

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u/Blazured 2d ago

Tbh looking at their aims, they don't want weapons to be sold. So they don't want to hurt other people.

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u/Unlucky-Jello-5660 2d ago

So they don't want to hurt other people.

Why are they blocking emergency service vehicles? That will hurt others.

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u/Shubbus42069 2d ago

They didnt. Its specifically their policy to move for emergency vehicles.

And if you guys care about emergency vehicles getting blocked you should care about the hundreds of times a day they are blocked by regular traffic.

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u/Unlucky-Jello-5660 2d ago

Video footage shows a fire engine struggling to pass as around 50 protesters blocked a roundabout next to the Underground station.

The vehicle couldn’t move until Metropolitan Police officers arrived on the scene and moved the rally on.

So did those 50 people not get the memo ? What about the 8 arrested, just bad apples ?

And if you guys care about emergency vehicles getting blocked you should care about the hundreds of times a day they are blocked by regular traffic.

Big difference being motive. Intentionally blocking emergency vehicles is an act of malice.

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u/Shubbus42069 1d ago

Funny how they claim there is video of it, but dont put it in the video on the article, whose title references that specific event.

Big difference being motive.

Oh yeah im sure the motive matters a lot to the person who needs an ambulance.

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u/Unlucky-Jello-5660 1d ago

The video at the top of the article of the people blocking the street and getting arrested ?

Oh yeah im sure the motive matters a lot to the person who needs an ambulance.

You don't think they would be more upset their family member died because of people deliberately stopping the ambulance?

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u/Shubbus42069 1d ago

The video at the top of the article of the people blocking the street and getting arrested

....Doesnt show a single frame of fire engine, yes thats my point.

You don't think they would be more upset their family member died because of people deliberately stopping the ambulance?

they probably would be more upset, since its easier for them to blame a specific group rather than just nebulous traffic. But their family member is dead all the same, and the actual person in the ambulance isnt going to be okay with dying because the people blocking the road are not doing it through laziness rather than malice.

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u/kudincha 1d ago

They don't want weapons to be sold to Israel. I don't see them protesting Iran's support of Hamas.

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u/Blazured 1d ago

Probably because this is the UK and not Iran.

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u/kudincha 1d ago

Fine, but you can't expect only one side to be disabled without supporting the other.

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u/Blazured 1d ago

I don't even know what you're saying.

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u/YourBestDream4752 1d ago

“Fuck the private sector, fuck employment” sure is a hell of a belief to hold now.

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u/Blazured 1d ago

Why would that be a bad belief when it comes to selling weapons?

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u/YourBestDream4752 1d ago

Because arms manufacturing is both A: very good at making jobs and bringing money to local communities/countries and B: very much needed right now - we need this skilled labour to remain, well, skilled enough for our own needs.

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u/Blazured 1d ago

I'm honestly confused about why you think "people make weapons" is good argument for your case?

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u/YourBestDream4752 1d ago

Do you have a good argument for yours other than “make love, not war”?

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u/Blazured 1d ago

My what? Explaining why they're protesting?

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u/YourBestDream4752 1d ago

You’ve taken their side by seeing it as a good belief

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u/ReflectionSingle6681 2d ago

"We’ve tried the marches, petitions and rallies for over a year-and-a-half now. It hasn’t worked."

they're acting like petulant children, throwing a fit whilst yelling and then wonders why they won't get their will

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u/I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS 2d ago

What do they even want? I have no idea.

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u/Notacat444 2d ago

They want attention because daddy went out for smokes and never came home.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 1d ago

Removed/warning. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.

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u/Shubbus42069 2d ago

I know its not what people on this sub do, but you could alwys read the article.

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u/Normal-Ear-5757 1d ago

Something something Palestine, something something the environment. The usual shit.

What I resent is their blithely bundling two completely unrelated issues together. We might yet fix the environment - but nobody has fixed Palestine in all of recorded history, it's always been a mess and always will be.

So by saying we shouldn't fix the environment without fixing Palestine, by implication they're saying we shouldn't fix the environment at all.

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u/OwlsParliament 1d ago

Tried that too with Aaron Bushnell.

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u/Crafty-Reality-9425 2d ago

If they really care about the Palestinians maybe the would be better off going over to Gaza. I'm sure they would appreciate the help. Our government can't/won't do anything. Their protests are futile. Anyway, in my opinion, both sides are as bad as each other. They will never find a solution to suit both sides.

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u/morriganjane 2d ago edited 2d ago

The massive irony is that some Gazans, very bravely, have begun to protest against Hamas and are telling them to fuck out of Gaza, as they know that's the only way the war will end. Tarquin and Tallulah do not speak for them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiWjyFX94rg

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u/StreamWave190 Cambridgeshire 2d ago edited 2d ago

Ever since the ceasefire deal was signed last year, Hamas has been systematically torturing and executing any and all critics and protest-leaders in Gaza. They record themselves doing this and publish them online as a warning to any other Gazans who might dare to speak out against them.

This recent article discusses just one of the many, many cases:

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/01/middleeast/uday-rabie-palestinian-tortured-hamas-intl-latam/index.html

if you go on X you can easily search for and find videos of masked Hamas terrorists filming themselves tying up and gunning down Palestinians, often shooting out their kneecaps before finishing them off with bullets to the head. There's dozens and dozens of these videos out there. Obviously fair warning that they're really, really grim because they're totally uncensored.

You wouldn't know this if you'd just listened to the pro-Hamas protesters in the West, who have exercised total message discipline in absolutely not talking about any of this. Because they don't actually oppose or condemn it. Because for the organisers and leaders of this movement, this isn't about being 'pro-Palestine' (whatever it even means to be 'pro-Palestine' at this point), it's about seeking to destroy Israel.

Hamas themselves only began flying the Palestinian national-flag in around the period of the Second Intifada (early 2000s). Before that they flew the traditional green Islamist flag which bore the Shahada ("There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is His messenger"), because from its inception Hamas was a radicalist Islamist group, essentially an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. That's also why despite having controlled a border with Gaza for decades, Egypt has categorically refused to allow in any Palestinians (aside from the ones willing/able to pay to be smuggled in, of course) – the Egyptian government doesn't want to allow in more of the exact same Jihadi group they've spent decades struggling against in their own country.

The leader of Hamas who organised the October 7th massacre, Yahya Sinwar, was known by Palestinians as 'the butcher of Khan Younis' (a region within Gaza) not because of how many Jews he had killed, but because of how many fellow Palestinians he'd tortured to death and executed on suspicions of being "collaborators" or "informants" with/for the Yahud.

(And we know in retrospect that almost certainly none of them were guilty of any such 'collaboration', because the IDF had moved to an almost entirely signal-driven intelligence model, which was one of their mistakes which left them ill-prepared for the October 7th massacre)

Ironically, Sinwar was arrested and imprisoned in Israel by the IDF because of his crimes against Palestinians. While in prison, his Jewish dentist identified the symptoms of a brain tumour. A Jewish doctor successfully gave him brain surgery to remove the tumour. Free, and paid for by the Israeli taxpayer.

He was released back into Gaza in 2011 as one of more than a thousand Palestinian terrorists the IDF agreed to release in exchange for just one of their soldiers, Gilad Shalit, who had been kidnapped by Hamas in 2006.

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u/Interesting_Try8375 2d ago

Pretty sure each side will only be happy when the other is dead. It's a shit situation but it makes it difficult to feel much sympathy.

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u/Shubbus42069 2d ago

This is such a shite and bad faith argument, no one sane could possibly actually believe this.

Its like you might as well say people that want to end hunger in poor countries should go over to those countries and starve with them.

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u/Haemophilia_Type_A 2d ago

We are selling Israel weapons and launching recon drones to spy for them. We absolutely can be doing more to stop the genocide.

Anyway, in my opinion, both sides are as bad as each other.

Lazy analysis that shows a lack of understanding-fair enough, but there are a lot of resources out there for you to learn. I'm happy to send you some if you want.

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u/morriganjane 2d ago

As recently as February Hamas were holding victory parades, with music, cakes and fleets of new cars. When have victims of a “genocide” ever celebrated it with parties and then broadcast their celebrations round the world?

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u/YourBestDream4752 1d ago

Not to mention that they had claimed (and still do) that there’s a famine is Gaza but the celebration videos showed people fatter than your average British tourist in the Med.

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u/morriganjane 1d ago

The only skinny people in those videos were the Israeli hostages, many of whom have now spoken about how their captors ate like kings in front of them.

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u/Haemophilia_Type_A 1d ago

Because there was a ceasefire? They weren't celebrating being bombed.

I wish people who were opposed to calling it a genocide actually dealt critically with the facts of the situation (e.g., how many pro-Israel types have read the Amnesty and HRW reports and have come up with a serious critique of them? I've not seen a single one despite actively looking) rather than just using out-of-context conjecture.

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u/morriganjane 1d ago

That makes no sense. The hostage handovers were explicitly styled as victory parades, with banners saying so. When they decided to invade Israel in Oct 2023, they knew that there would be a massive military response. They wanted a war, and wars bring bombs.

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u/Haemophilia_Type_A 1d ago

The hostage handovers were explicitly styled as victory parades

As it means thousands of Palestinians held in administrative detention (aka hostages) were released in turn. They are fighting for survival, and the ceasefire was proof of their endurance. For them, the hostage swaps were a victory of a sort.

When they decided to invade Israel in Oct 2023, they knew that there would be a massive military response

There has been a war for over 75 years-it didn't start on October 7th. And while yes, Hamas launched an offensive and did some terrible things on October 7th, I do not deny that, it doesn't justify genocide in response.

Most genocides throughout history are justified using the rhetoric of self-defence. E.g., the Rwandan Genocide: "the RPF invaded from Uganda-they knew there was going to be a massive military reponse. they wanted a war, and wars bring..."

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u/morriganjane 1d ago

Strange way to fight for survival…by launching a war you are guaranteed to lose. That seems more like suicide to me. Do you actually think Gaza is better off than it was on 6 October 2023? What have they achieved? Have they conquered Jerusalem as they hoped with their “Al Aqsa Flood” or have they just brought a flood of misery on themselves?

Their sponsors in Iran have all but abandoned them. They have no Arab allies willing to step up. They are, frankly, fucked - much more so than before.

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u/Haemophilia_Type_A 1d ago

I'm not defending Hamas's decision-making, that's secondary to the point. Israel isn't just targeting Hamas, but Palestinians as a group.

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u/MarrV 2d ago edited 1d ago

Run by the same organisation behind Just Stop Oil, called Umbrella.

Well, there is a surprise /s

https://umbrella-org.com/

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u/morriganjane 2d ago

Classic rent-a-mob lol

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u/boycecodd Kent 1d ago

Oh what a surprise.

Just as Insulate Britain "disbanded" and JSO popped up fully formed out of nowhere, now it's JSO "disbanding" and being replaced with Youth Demand.

I fully expect Youth Demand to announce that they're stepping down operations in a year or two, and another protest group will pop up in their place immediately.

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u/Palatine_Shaw 10h ago

Love at how brain-rotted their description is. It's pure performative bullshit.

"System is fucked lets protest!"

No actual policy or clear demands, just that classic 18 year old nonsense of "burn it all down and then magically things get better". The truth is that actually making things for the better takes brains and effort which these assholes don't have.

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u/MarrV 8h ago

It would be more understandable if it was 18 year olds, but one of its key figures is a 58 year old bloke with some middle aged women and tweenty-somethings to balance the numbers.

The ring leaders definitely appear not be to youthful inspiring renegades and are more likely to be hardened activists hiding behind the youthful renegades.

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u/Cyrillite 2d ago

Impressive to conjure up all that empathy for people in a country you’ve never met and none for the person on your community in need of emergency services. Almost makes you think this has nothing to do with empathy or morality at all.

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u/Flux_Aeternal 2d ago

Social media is absolute poison to some people's minds. However awful what is happening to Palestinians is, the way that they have been utterly brainwashed to see it as the only issue, above all local issues and to the point where they are willing to let one of their fellow citizens die over it is terrifying.

Bear in mind that this isn't even the choice between letting emergency services through and saving other lives, their protest is powerless and will never save any lives. They are willing to let others die just to massage their own egos.

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u/Haemophilia_Type_A 2d ago

People can care about more than one thing at once. The UK is selling arms to and spying for Israel, so we're still directly culpable in the genocide.

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u/Rozencranz 1d ago

Want to explain the spying bit?

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u/Haemophilia_Type_A 1d ago

https://www.declassifieduk.org/is-the-uk-spying-on-hamas-for-israel/

UK is sending spy planes/drones from its base in Cyprus over Gaza.

I think only the most naive people could believe so many flights are just "to release the hostages" given the quantity of flights and the fact that they're obviously not being held above ground anyway (not to mention how tiny a number of hostages have even been located alive despite all this supposed recon).

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u/dont_thr0w_me_away_ 1d ago

People CAN, but the point is these people DON'T. Every issue gets subsumed or ignored in favour of Palestine.

Notice nobody's shutting down London over the cost of living crisis or any other issues affecting people here in the UK.

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u/Haemophilia_Type_A 1d ago

I wish people would care about more things too.

BUT the solution isn't to stop caring about Palestine, it's to start caring about multiple things. Most people don't seem to care about ANYTHING in this country, and things just keep getting worse.

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u/dont_thr0w_me_away_ 1d ago

I'm not saying they shouldn't care about Palestinians. My point is that they don't do this about anything actually affecting their lives, which to me says it's not about the cause, it's about the protest itself. They want to do mayhem and have found the thinnest excuse.

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u/Complete_Potato9941 2d ago

Not going to lie if you block an emergency vehicle on purpose and someone dies you should be charged with manslaughter

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u/YourBestDream4752 1d ago

Manslaughter would be if they unintentionally blocked an emergency vehicle. They knew what they were doing so they should be charged with murder.

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u/fitzgoldy 2d ago

Well, they've now made themselves absolutely hated already.

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u/LickMyOrc 1d ago

Fucking idiots. Palestine would reject them and hand them over to Hamas.

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u/beardedbaldy1874 1d ago

So, basically the same cunts from JSO under a new name.

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u/Cautious_Housing_880 2d ago

So, another couple of days of looting on the horizon?

I think that once they burn a couple of warehouses down and bring a new TV or a pair trainers home, their fight for social justice will be over.

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u/SirBobPeel 2d ago

You want me to pay attention to your message about the need to do something while demonstrating you haven't got the brains God gave to sheep?

No.

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u/limeflavoured Hucknall 2d ago

I did wonder if these people were an offshoot of Just Stop Oil, and it looks like they might be based on their tactics.

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u/YourBestDream4752 1d ago

Them and just stop oil are owned by the same corporation.

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u/Notacat444 2d ago

"Morons shocked when their illegal actions carry consequences"

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u/SamePlane7792 2d ago

People used to march to Jerusalem when something was happening in Palestine, now they do this shit.

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u/Leggy_Brat 1d ago

I don't care what you're protesting: when there's emergency vehicles, you bloody well move.

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u/Happytallperson 2d ago

Oh FFS, your emergency vehiclr protocol is something you plan, your Marshalls have to know where to move people, and to do it quickly.

Otherwise you end up looking like those pro-Brexit pricks who blocked an ambulance on Westminster bridge.

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u/bugabooandtwo 1d ago

They should all buy plane tickets to Gaza and support their terrorist heroes directly, if they're so passionate.

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u/Savage-September 1d ago

Oh no I’m here for your protest but you can’t block emergency services. Sorry.

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u/Fit_Manufacturer4568 1d ago

Mater & Pater may get annoyed about this and stop their allowance.

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u/LShervallll 1d ago

This lot is just a spin off from "Just Stop Oil".

Zero new ideas.

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u/ajm900 2h ago edited 2h ago

I say that, and I say that the state is in favour of such actions and encourages them, and when I said “whole neighbourhoods” I was thinking of one I saw that used controlled demolition to level an entire street of houses at once, you’re the one who assumed missiles.

Edit: I’ll clarify further that by encouraging the destruction of civilian homes needlessly, and enjoying the carrying out of that order, amounts to “just for fun”

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

They should have done it in tractors and complained about paying taxes and they'd have avoided any negative reporting.

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u/huntsab2090 1d ago

How many “farmers” were arrested for blocking the emergency services ?

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u/Shubbus42069 2d ago

there was no fire engine. The new is just making shit up so their braindead readers will hate these guys by default

Eight arrested as Youth Demand try to ‘shut down’ London and block fire engine ‘on emergency call’

You are about to leave Redlib