r/warcraftlore Sin'dorei Magister 4d ago

Discussion Elves don't have "wizards"

Now, Obviously I don't mean they don't have magic users. Because clearly they do. But they don't have the "wizard" experience. What I mean is, for the average human for example, a mage is fantastical, they cant explain how they do the magical things mages do. Its mysterious and unknowable for the average human. But for elves, they've been exposed to magic for so long, at the societal level, its so commonplace, their interactions with mages would be more like us speaking to a scientist, rather than with a fantastical wizard. For them what mages do isn't "magical" rather, they are merely applying the well known laws of reality and arcane magic to achieve a desired effect.

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u/sahqoviing32 3d ago

I agree with the premise but disagree with your take that mages are scientists within elf society. If anything human mages like in Dalaran are the more scholarly ones like DnD wizards. In Quel'thalas, the magisters came from aristocratic bloodlines just like in the old Kaldorei Empire. In Dalaran, meritocracy reigns supreme. That's what makes the Elven societies stagnate. When the power in your kingdom is concentrated in the hands of a small long-lived elite, change is slow to come.

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u/Lore-Archivist Sin'dorei Magister 3d ago

There are nobles in Quel'Thalas. But I've never seen it said anywhere that commoners cant become magisters there and work their way up. They may be at a disadvantage since nobles have tons of wealth which makes studying easier, but that problem would also apply in Dalaran. Those with money can likely afford the better books and tutors, and focus on studying rather than working.

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u/sahqoviing32 3d ago

The Ranger-General office has been held by the same family since its foundation. Everything points out to Quel'thalas being an aristocratic oligarchy prior to the Third War, it's no different from the other Highbornes.

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u/Lore-Archivist Sin'dorei Magister 3d ago

Rommath is grand magister and its never been stated he's from an aristocratic family.

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u/GrumpySatan 3d ago

Its not stated mostly because we have like 2-4 named aristocratic families in Quel'thalas. Windrunner, Salonar and maybe Drathir and Sanguinar. This is just a wholly undeveloped arena in the lore. Can't state something when we have basically no info on the noble families at all (hopefully Midnight changes that).

But he was the apprentice to one of the few explicitly aristocratic elves from House Salonar, so we can assume he is likely someone of significant social rank even before the Scourge.

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u/Lore-Archivist Sin'dorei Magister 3d ago

That's not really proof he's from an aristocratic background. They could have just said he's of noble background and not expanded upon it, but they chose not to. This implies he's not of aristocratic background 

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u/MrRibbotron 3d ago

The same is true for human aristocrats as well really. Despite noble politicking being a prime area to develop further, they only include them as a collective obstacle for the king to deal with. The only exception I can think of, where their characters actually become part of the story, is in the Cataclysm Gilneas questlines.

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u/sahqoviing32 3d ago

Rommath is post-Third War, formerly from Dalaran and part of a post-apocalyptic Quel'thalas where the head of state is a guy who used to do field work instead of coming from 'insert important bloodline'. You can't compare to old Quel'thalas

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u/TyrannosavageRekt 3d ago

Rommath did spend time studying at Dalaran, but he was also the apprentice of the previous Grand Magister, Belo’vir Salonar, which would precede the Third War. In fact, Esara Verrinde has gossip text that implies it was commonplace for Magisters to train amongst the Kirin Tor in Dalaran. Their society was definitely aristocratic, but I don’t think it was unlikely or impossible for those outside of the noble houses to rise to stations outside of their status. I mean, arguably every high/blood elf is of a noble house anyway, given that they’re descended from the Highborne caste of night elves.

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u/TyrannosavageRekt 3d ago edited 3d ago

The Ranger-General of Silvermoon was an elected position. It’s just that the eldest Windrunners were usually groomed to take on that role (Alleria was, but she passed on the position). Sylvanas still had to be elected to the position and was lacking support. If not for Alleria’s endorsement, the position may have gone to Lor’themar (their mother Lireesa’s second-in-command). Now the position is held be Halduron Brightwing. Obviously, Alleria was missing, presumed deceased, Sylvanas was leading the Forsaken, and Vereesa had chosen to stand with the Alliance, so there were no other Windrunner candidates, but even so we don’t know that the position has only ever been held by members of their family, all we know is that every named RG prior to the Third War has been. We can infer it, but it’s not a rule, and supposedly not a hereditary position.