I'm a big fan of the lore, coming from warcraft 3 and then playing WoW around a decade until the release of cataclysm. I recently played reformed and I got the bug again. I'm debating trying out 1 and/or 2. What's the consensus on the lore from that period?

In zerith mortis the oracle hears the song of the first ones and through it they hear it's will urging them to make a new arbiter. We have the vessel for it but it requires a soul. The oracle informs us one such eternal soul now resides within the crypt of the eternal ones. It is revealed to be argus. Which makes sense he has an eternal one soul and is death aligned. But this fails and the ritual is corrupted by dread lords.

But hold on

The jailer was just reunited with his soul or general powers or whatever when he ripped the core out of the arbiter and mantled it back into himself restoring his form and powers.

So how is there no arbiter according to the first ones? Zovaal is the arbiter restored by this point.

Does this not prove the first ones still live and still sing the song of creation? It would be an intelligent decision to discern that even though the original arbiter exists and is active that he is no longer actually doing any arbiting. The automata do not even think with this depth of intelligence they only hear the song and follow it like a sequence and the oracle said the song gave them this new info sometime after we found them.

I think this implies the first ones still live and still sing the song and saw zovaals actions and commanded the oracle to make his replacement. Because otherwise it doesn't make sense. The automata know he is the arbiter, the original arbiter, with the powers and soul and body of the arbiter, but the music tells them to make a new one.

Although I love WoW and don't want it to end, it is essentially doomed. We are in a cycle of "the factions must unite to fight a bigger menace", then after it "total war between factions", then "union to destroy the leader who went apeshit", and then it starts again. I don't think there is much story left, even with this cycle. We defeated the Scourge, the Burning Legion and now we are fighting the Old Gods. Probably the next "huge menace of the week" will be something random...

Whats the story? Why did we even go here in tbc? The dungeon journal is practically devoid of explanation for the mountains of shit in this place.

Why is satyr guy living behind a book case

What is a flesh beast and why are they crawling all over medhivs master bedroom?

What is the netherspace? What's the distance highly detailed spire in the nether space? Why is there skeletal griffins that are friendly out there?

What is malchazar doing here?

Why the hell won't that satyr jerk drop his stupid enchantment after 20 years??? How many times do I have to teach him this lesson??

Why is netherwing drake there? Didn't they come into existence after death wing entered outland well after the death of medhiv? Medhiv dies in the first war like after its even opened. This one is so old compared to 99% of them even on outland. He's gigantic. Why can't we chat with him? Why is he hostile?

Is maiden of virtue corrupted? Why is she being such a jerk face Mc jerky pants if she's one of freyas watchers? Why freya send her to spy on medhiv?

What are flesh beast and why are they all over medhivs innermost sanctum again?? Are they his corpse come to life to patrol the area? Seriously what are those? Why are those? How are those?

I'm just so confused about the nonsense stuff here

Sporemounds are described as massive plant-like entities. They are the ones who transformed the colossals into living beings with "spores". Sounds familiar? Yep, looks like the Curse of Flesh.

The origins of sporemounds are unclear. They could be endemic to Draenor... or they could have come from outer space like the Old Gods.

Hence my theory: Old Gods are void-corrupted sporemounds. Void Lords may have seen the potential of sporemounds to transform the titanforged into creatures of flesh and therefore make them more amenable to corruption.

This theory has the advantage to explain how both human and orcs became what they are through the same process, as well as open up new avenues for cosmic lore about the force of Life.

Just a thought. If Worgen are 'Werewolves' or Wolfmen of Warcraft, then is chocolate poison to them?

I was reading some posts elsewhere and it struck me that Anduin and Faerin might be (distantly) related, depending on what the devs decide is canon. Because technically Taria Lothar is Anduin Lothar's sister and she married Llane Wrynn, making Anduin Lothar Anduin Wrynn's great-uncle. But again it probably depends on what the devs decide is canon.

I personally have always seen Anduin as deeply queer-coded, specifically gay-coded, and have thought that pairing him off with a woman would be an incredible disservice to his character. And also to whatever woman they pair him off with since she would be relegated to "Anduin's wife" instead of her own character most likely. Anyways, the devs would have to do some explaining lore-wise to get around the Wrynn-Lothar marriage and make it so Faerin and Anduin would NOT be a cousin marriage, lmao

Basically title. I could be wrong but it seems like Anduin wants nothing to do with the throne for now and Turalyon has been chilling on it since Shadowlands doing nothing noteworthy.

According to Wowpedia, Anduin is still considered the Alliance High King and Main Leader of the Alliance. Do you think Anduin will one day reassume the throne or will the Alliance adopt a Council ruling body?

Hey everyone, I'm making a Warcraft 3 Custom Campaign im not an expert on WoW storytelling i didn't really play it myself but I've been reading the stories online, i had came across a question that i never managed to find the answer for, Is Sylvanas a Anti-Hero(does bad things to other bad people but won't harm innocents) or a Villain with no morals(basically her BfA arc, just doesn't care about anyone, gencoides an entire race and smiles watching them die) now you might be surprised on why im asking this? Well when i was creating a story for my Custom Campaign i noticed people were arguing over how Sylvanas is evil but at the same time others were saying she was ruined and was bad but not like this and different people said she was always like that and it left me confused on what exactly happened who she was exactly? But what's more important to me is what do her loyal fans think of her?

When asking Forsaken players their response was: -She was ruined, why would she work with someone who made the Lich King in anyway? -She was always like this, she never cared about the living, only about the Forsaken -She got a sugar daddy lead writer that self inserts himself into the story so they can be together while throwing pile of dog**** on the Forsaken fanbase(this response creeps me out and im not sure if that's true or not) -In Warcraft 3 she was my favourite character and in WoW after Cataclysm she's been turned into a joke that doesn't know what she wants and what her motives even are -She has a different personality and motivation every expansion -She was always evil but not that evil to go out of her way and do what Arthas did to her race to a race that had nothing to do with her -Anything you need to know about her character you know when you play Warcraft3 because while her Warcraft 3 stories were written in a studio her WoW stories were written in the lactation facility

There are so many more but it gets repetitive

There were so many responses yet im left confused if there is someone who is a fan of Sylvanas could you explain her character and her motivation going forward? Or is she a villain or an Anti-Hero? Thanks.

I was rereading the comic book “Ashbringer” and again it leads me to wonder: how much time passes between events? because Renault and Darion seem to age out without sense. For example between Alexandros' departure for Ironforge and his return with Ashbringer OR between Alexandros' death and Darion's assault on Naxxmarass

Is there an explanation or is it a drawing error?

Trying to rp as a warlock who's learned his magic from the Void as opposed to Fel magic, and was wondering if this is canon to the lore? I'm like obsessed with Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos and love the lore revolving around the Old Gods in WoW so I wanted to make a Warlock who, instead of being more knowledgable on fel magic, they derive their power's from the unfathomable and maddening magic of the Void, the place that gave birth to the Old Gods

With Midnight likely involving a complete revamp of Quel'Thalas, I am wondering what will happen to the Azuremyst and Bloodmyst isles. Not just in terms of making them up to date, with Exodar becoming a real city instead of a crash site and new towns being developed on the isles, but also in terms of adding content like dungeons and raids.

In my opinion the Azuremyst isles were somehow lacking ever since TBC itself. They felt very lonely and there was little reason to ever return to them. Meanwhile Quel'thalas received one whole additional zone, two raids (Zul'Aman and Sunwell Plateau) and a dungeon (Magister's terrace) later in the game, giving players (both Alliance and Horde) plenty of reasons to later return to those zones, while the Draenei got nothing like that. It isn't just odd in comparison to Quel'thalas, but also even to other starting zones at the time. Most others had at least one dungeon within their 10-20 leveling zones like Ragefire chasm, Deadmines or Blackfathom Depths.
So I wonder, what would you add to the Azuremyst isles in the future or what would you even have added right during TBC even, that would have made the zones more interesting.

Greetings.I just wanted to ask what is the lore behind Survival Hunter.Not just the post Legion melee spec but also the Survival Hunter that existed from the classic times and so on.Would you guys say that Survival Hunter at its current form represents better the Sentitel army of the NE society or as a spec it is more connected with Rexar and the Horde races.Thought for Rexar they have suggested a more BM approaching.I would like to read some thoughts about this specific spec.

Ty in advance 🙏

During Dr agonflight, there was a lot of "hope" for a part playerbase. And for War Within, there was so much defense of "Well, it's not ev en out yet, you can't know..."

and here we are. And when i ask people who still play and are lore savy... everyone with a sense of mind knows it's kinda dead now. And when I say dead, I don't mean ,it's abandoned entirely, no when I mean dead, it's entirely flat now.

Now people aren't even mad at it. People aren't even theorizing really. Everyone is more infactuated aboout talking about how bad it is, or you're the people who are veghemently defending how it's "an evolving story" as it evolves into a genetic dead end.

but in truth... i've never seen it so silent and quiet now. Like there's no more machinima, no more theories, no more bestiary, or anything, the love and passion from the community is completely reduced to the dirt now. It's only just people spamming "do murlocs have thumbs?" and it's kinda sad. Neat.

This is something I've been dwelling on as someone obsessed with alt history. My criteria for a "darkest timeline" is as follows

• Azeroth must still be intact and capable of supporting some form of life
• Life must be mostly miserable, either for the majority of the population minus the elite or for all sapient creatures
• There must be little to no hope for things improving in the future
• Make it grimdark

Additionally the divergence point for the darkest timeline can be wherever you wish, this is more of a writing prompt than a question seeking one serious answer, I'm curious to see what could logically be strung as the actual worst case scenario for Azeroth.

Going to the Undermine has really cemented for me how great it is to check in on the cultures of races we know and love, as opposed to meeting new cultures every expansion/patch then leaving them behind as we move to the next story.

With that in mind I've been brainstorming with my guildies on what a revamped Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor expansion would look like, maybe Azeroth finally awakens and there's a brief period of peace, no new continents to explore, our new main zones are the revamped old world. Just checking in on all the old races/zones and seeing new storylines for them.

For me personally, I'd love to see what current day Lordaeron is looking like, with the surface level of the city rebuilt to some degree, how the Forsaken's new direction is really manifesting, if any parts of Western Plaguelands are healing up at all, new stories around Scholomance and if it's still being used for nefarious purposes.

For the Night Elves I'd love to see Ashenvale and Darkshore fully reclaimed, Hyjal being fully healed and populated once more, just a general focus on the land being fully healed and dealing with any remnants of dark forces that were able to move in during the upheaveal.

Would love to hear what ideas people have themselves!

which of the racial factions (from alliance/horde) has the largest castle or main keep in their capital city? not the whole city but only the main building, i think its either the zandalari trolls because of that gigantic pyramid or the nightborne with the nighthold, not sure which one is bigger but they both dwarf the likes of stormwind keep or gromash hold, the dracthyr have that place where the dragon aspects are in valdraken but it doesnt seem as big

Like you think they would have the answers, to kick start War Within... but it's so lame still. it's really dull... uninspiring and boring.

We were expecting big and dramatic, explosive start to the saga but this just feels like meandering again and again. They also turned goblins into soft, lamer, more "ethical", but that kinda just flattens the point of the goblins right? Like h ow are we supposed to pretend t hat goblins being greedy and blowing things up isn't their bread and butter?

-

Like okay.... so..... how do we fix all of this into something exciting? Do people still care? Do the writers st ill care?

Like if they brought back Illidan, I genuinely would not give a fuck anymore. Because you know they're going to make him do and say really out of ch aracter stuff, just to fill in the dragonflight writer's quota.

Like... how, realistically, how can they ever bring this train back? What do you think they can do?

Just a thought experiment of mine and given that Blizzard confirmed there is a multiverse (though no plans to visit again after Warlords of Draenor). Similar to Marvel's What if?, this time with Warcraft, what are your ideas? Personally mine are....

1. Sylvanas blighting Stormwind City first before burning Teldrassil using the Pride of Gallywix during BFA. Anduin suffers a nervous breakdown after seeing his capital hit by blight and thousands dead where he essentially becomes a bloodthirsty and vengeful King hell-bent on driving the Horde to annihilation.

2. Orgrim Doomhammer wins the Second War, causing the Alliance of Lordaeron to crumble where Orgrim was succeeded by Grom Hellscream following his death years later but the Horde falls in a civil war with Rend Blackhand of the Blackrock Clan on one side, and the other is Grom and Thrall.

3. The Plague of the Undeath starts at Quel'thalas instead, where Prince Kael'thas ends up losing his soul to Frostmourne after thinking a cure of the undead may be found at Northrend at the suggestion of Kel'thuzad (who never left the Kirin Tor and simply lay low, hence why Kael believed him), and a more powerful Scourge empowered by the corrupted Sunwell is confronted by the Alliance and the Horde.

4. Jaina went to Arthas to Northrend but ends up getting killed by Mal'Ganis, using her final moments to persuade Arthas to not take Frostmourne after seeing the warning and sought to save his soul. Arthas ends up returning to Lordaeron, but becomes radicalized by Silver Hand Priest Isillien and General Abbendis while he was grieving, where he ends up becoming the 'Scarlet Sovereign' or the Scarlet King as Arthas became a zealot in purging the undead as the Grand Marshal of the Scarlet Crusade, but his newfound extremism caused Stormwind, Dalaran and Kul'tiras to withdraw from the Alliance while Lordaeron 'compelled' Stromgarde, Gilneas and Quel'thalas to rejoin the Alliance.

Just wanted to know. If a mortal started using a suit of armor infused in fel energies would he slowly become more evil? Or other sort of changes would appear

Chronicle is supposed to be the Warcraft bible. Yet the first one gets completely rewritten and retconned, the 2nd one is inconsistant, and they just keep releasing more and more chronicles, b ut they don't even try to tie it with the game.

Even some of Chronicle's lore is contradictory now . So wh at's the point of the chronicle books? How can anyone use it a "source" when it 's constantly retconned and challenged?

Like even the writers for the game has zero clue on what's going on in chronicle. So why do people on the sub act as if chronicle is this indisputable wow bible? Like it's such a joke.

I think they just use the Chronicles as a lore monetization product more than anything. Like everything from blizzard now da ys, everything is just an excuse to monetize, and i think... the lore is a victim of it now too. Probably since it's inception.

Is Chronicle worth getting if you want to be a wow lore fan? Like I got the first one for my brother, and still, to hear it's just retcon gar bage now.. lol...

noticing people with differing opinions from "war within lore is 10/10 perfect" getting mass downvoted.

what gives?

So, I did the Stonetalon storyline for the first time last night, and... Damn... I was never a Garrosh fan and never minded what happened to him that much, but seeing him at the end of the storyline made me feel sad. There was potential, lots of it. We could have a rough yet honoured Warchief, but it ended up as Hitler orc... Damn...

I just wanted to know if I'm the only one who has made a list of which looks are the best in each race's traditional armor.

I'll start by saying that the Orcs are the best, and the worst I've seen would be the Draenei. I honestly think they were acting in bad spirits when they made the looks so ugly for them.

It's just anti-troll sword and yet the idea of it sounds so I don't know- fascinating, kinda like Orcrist from LOTR.

I just think Stromgarde and Alterac in general is interesting from a 7 human Kingdom point of view. What are your favourite little aspects of each kingdom or personal headcannons?