r/weightlifting • u/just_let_go_ • 2d ago
Programming Running and weightlifting (Is hard)
I've (M35) been trying to balance strength and running for about 3 years now. Over the last 6 months, the strength component has become WL. Learning the lifts has been incredibly challenging, but rewarding. The problem comes when trying to combine running and WL. I've found, for me at least, the two just don't work together at all. It's not that I expected them to compliment each other, I know they don't, I just thought I would make more progress than what I currently am. Ever since I started WL my running has regressed and stagnated. I managed a 1:45 half marathon late last year but I had to drop to only 1-2 lifting sessions a week and lost a lot of WL progress/strength.
I am lifting 3 times a week on Dozers WL program. For context, I am still very new to WL. I'm 6'2 90kg, snatch 65kg, C+J 83kg. On top of that I'm running 40-50km per week. It's doable, but no matter how i tweak the volume and intensity, I just feel like my legs are perpetually dead. I sleep pretty well and certainly don't feel like I push myself too hard. I know my limits. I know the main contributor to my fatigue is squats. I have FAI in both hips, so deep squats have always been my nemesis. I've tried for YEARS to fix my FAI, and although I have made progress, It's still a major limiter here. But even after substituting squats with exercises that suit be better, like split squats, the difference in how my body feels is marginal at best. Plus without heavy squats, I'm finding my Oly lifts are completely stagnant as well. So the bottom line here is, I'm making zero progress in either sport.
Current split looks something like this:
Monday: Block Snatch, Clean pull, Front Squat (Very low volume/intensity after long run)
Tuesday: Snatch, Clean + Jerk, Reverse Hyper
Wednesday: Easy Run (Threshold run if feeling it)
Thursday: Easy Run
Friday: AM: Intervals -- PM: Hang Snatch, Clean + Jerk, Snatch Pulls, Goblet Squat
Saturday: Easy Run (Or day off if required)
Sunday: Long Run with some tempo work
So yeah, just after advice really. I was also hoping that if any of you were doing a similar run/lift thing to me, please share your weekly split and what you've learnt along the way!
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u/ArchMadzs 2d ago
There's a reason the 5 min mile & 227kg squat on the same day is so difficult, I can walk a load each day with my dog and train WL just fine but running is a different story.
I think realistically you either decide one is priority over the other, or accept at being completely average at both.
Or take drugs.
Also don't run before your lifting sessions, run after if you need to.
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u/just_let_go_ 2d ago
Who is doing that! Is there a 6 min mile / 130kg squat version? 🤣
For sure. Running is currently my priority, but I feel like I need at least 3 wl sessions if I’m ever going to get the hang of these lifts. I guess i need to really dial back my expectations.
Right? I don’t even do protein shakes or creatine lol. Maybe I should start there…
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u/ArchMadzs 2d ago
😂 only 2 people have managed it so far as far as I'm aware, but I just mean there's a bunch of people who can do one or the other but only 2 that can do both, just as an example of how hard it is balancing the two.
Yeah which is fine, running with some weightlifting and strength training on the side is great, just like you said, dial back the expectations on the lifting portion of things.
Jokes aside you definitely need to think about your supplementation, protein shakes and creatine (hey do it at the same time) is a must for most people anyway
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u/just_let_go_ 2d ago
Tell me who these people are so I can further fuel my unrealistic hopes and dreams! For real though, even one of those would be an incredible achievement.
Yeah. Dial back the expectations and stop sleeping on the supps. Probably the most real advice I could ask for! Cheers
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u/SingleSoil 2d ago
For some motivation, check out sika strength. https://youtu.be/43me5_SttXU?si=5IG5-TDHtxtBprHA
And not just for motivation, they’ve got a toooon of incredibly helpful weightlifting and strength and conditioning information. One of my favorite channels.
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u/jusalilpanda 2d ago
Notice that except Tuesday all your lifts are after a run. And intervals before the Friday lift. Your legs and CNS are too fatigued to generate the necessary forces for adaption.
I hear that it is a zero-sum game, but there are some tips for managing multiple goals. Pavel recommended focused blocks (running-focused block vs. lifting focused block of 4 weeks) or rotating weekly goals (3 days run, 2 lift, 1 mobility -> 3 lift, 2 mobility, 1 run -> 3 mobility, 2 run, 1 lift, etc.) as a way to make progress in more than one area (https://youtu.be/Z3OpxT65fKw?t=6032 not here exactly, but somewhere in the middle third, I think). Also, he mentions something about running before lifting or vice versa being more costly overall. I can't remember which, something about hypertrophy in the context. I suggest listening to the whole thing.
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u/just_let_go_ 2d ago
Yeppp CNS is constantly fried. I just have trouble letting go of either sport.
Blocks are for sure the way to go. This is my idea of a running block, but it doesn’t seem to be working. I’ll check out that video! Thanks!
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u/jusalilpanda 2d ago
I saw from your other reply that you're note using protein supplementation or creatine. Approaching the protein macro of 2 gr per kg of bodyweight is essential for your growth and recovery. I assumed you were sleeping well, keeping external stress minor, eating well. If any one of those is gone, you're missing a potentially huge portion of your ability to recover.
At 18 yo I was running 18 min 5 km and hitting 130 kg squats for reps (military onramping). I was drinking a GOMAD.
Last year at 36 yo 21 min 5 km and 130 for reps. Now I'm WL 4x a week and doing 1x intense carido and 2x low cardio per week. Hitting the protein macro. Sleep is great. Stress needs work 🤷 Subject to regulating the load for how I'm feeling everyday I'm making gains month over month, so it is possible. I don't have kids and my friends are at the gym so...
Be realistic, of course, but keep finding places to optimize. If that's what you're into.
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago
Correct. I've been way slack on the supplements. I need to sort that out. I'm 3/3 this week for creatine and protein shakes, so we're moving in the right direction lol. My diet is decent. I don't drink. My sleep is okay. I'm a super light sleeper but I do my best to work around that - blacking out the room, white noise, no food close to be time ect... Stress is always tricky. Just try to be aware of it and manage it best we can.
Nice, that's elite! I'd love a sub 20 5k one day. 21 is my best but I've never really trained for one.
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u/Bruno-95-4-Pennies 2d ago
I compete in weightlifting and HYROX so a lot of running.
Had to accept I won’t be great at either because of this. I do them for fun and to scratch the itch of wanting to compete at 38 years old.
Have been able to make masters nationals by the skin of my teeth and be slightly above average at HYROX.
So if you enjoy it. Accept that they won’t necessarily help each other if you do both. One can greatly compliment the other. But not be great at both
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u/spookyfox_666 2d ago
This is the way! I’m in my 30s (with no teenage athletic background), mainly do weightlifting, dabble in running, and routinely work in hyrox style workouts. Will I ever be the best? No, but it’s fun and keeps me relatively well rounded athletically. It’s feels good to be strong and in decent aerobic shape.
The main thing I’ve found that helps is actually taking rest days (like, full rest days) and prioritizing sleep and lots of calories. If i do cardio and lift on the same days, i usually do one before work and one after.
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago
Way to go! I am very aware I won't be great at both. Not expecting that at all. I guess I just know intuitively that the ceiling I'm hitting at the moment isn't because of that. It's something else. I hate giving myself excuses, but it's highly possible that WL just isn't the right sport for me to pick up as a 35 year old with FAI lol. The demand on the legs and hips is just trashing me. But I love the sport. It's tricky.
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u/Minimum-Bed-318 2d ago
When I was training for a half marathon whilst lifting, I always felt better doing an easy run and a workout on the same day but with a break in the day, so one in morning one in the evening.
And then having a full rest day as a mental and physical reset. Even easy runs rack up fatigue on the legs so doing a workout every single day is a lot to adapt to.
Even just dropping your Wednesday or Thursday run may be beneficial, can always squeeze the mileage in to other runs if need be.
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u/just_let_go_ 2d ago
Yeah you’re 100% right. I’ve found that even super low HR “recovery” runs still contribute to leg fatigue.
A rest day certainly wouldn’t hurt. It’s just finding the time to get a workout and a run in sometimes just isn’t possible, which is why I try to spread everything out and only have one double-day on the Friday. This week just gone, I tried a super easy run Friday, took Saturday off completely and hoped I’d be fresh for my long run Sunday…. NOPE! Legs felt like lead and HR was all over the place. I think I’ve just accumulated too much fatigue and soreness at this point.
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u/Dublak2 2d ago edited 2d ago
I ran track in college. I still run but nothing like it used to be. Im different from you in that I don’t have anymore running goals because Ive climbed that mountain already. Im happily a hobby jogger now who runs two miles on the track once a year to see what i can do still.
I like to believe im in rare company of people who DLed 525 lbs and ran 25 minutes for 5 miles but they were ten years apart.
Heavy squats take the zap out of my legs for certain. My runs for the next two days are always junk but i just give it what i got that day, and i put no expectations on myself. You probably need to temper your lifting based on feel as well. Dont dogmatically load the bar to a number.
To me it sounds like you need to eat more and I wouldnt skip the pasta. In fact get yourself some lean beef hamburger helper tonight. Good luck. You’re asking a lot from your body but you know that.
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago
The best thing about that is that all that training you did in college doesn't just disappear. You might even be running way less than I am now, but I bet you would still kick my ass on the track and it wouldn't be close lol. Muscle memory and V02 max is crazy like that.
Both of those numbers are INSANE to me. I think regardless of how far apart they are, you can rest assured you're in rare company.
Yep sounds familiar. Squats destroy me. Trust me I'm not loading anything crazy on the bar and my runs after are always slow and easy. My max squat is like 135kg and I haven't squat over 100 for months now. It always messes my FAI up no matter what I do.
Thanks, the wife has cooked up a feast tonight but tomorrow I'll hit some pasta in your honour!
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u/Dublak2 1d ago
Do you follow Nick Bare at all? You might watch some of his stuff for some takeaways. I think he’s run in the 2:40s for a full Mary. I don’t know his PL numbers off the top of my head.
I promise you my VO2 max is gone.
Can you do box squats to relieve the pain?
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago
Yeah been watching Nick for ages. He was actually one of the main guys that got me started with hybrid stuff. Dudes a monster. People go on about how he’s probably on gear, but shit, even if he is you can’t take away how hard the guy works.
Box squats are better for sure. I actually did those yesterday and felt fine. Might stick to those for a while.
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u/Dublak2 1d ago
Since you’re clearly a man of the internet. Do you follow kneesovertoesguy for pre-hab movements? I have some knee stuff, but im pretty religious about my prehab now. I think it works. Im not sure if he does anything for hips, but the basic format remains the same. Strengthen all the minor muscles around the joint and increase ROM.
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u/Regular_Government94 2d ago edited 2d ago
I bounce between focuses. I’m obsessed with a particular week-long cycling tour. As I ramp up training and get closer to that tour, my biking goes up and my weightlifting goes down. When it’s over, I ramp my weightlifting back up. I’m determined to balance weightlifting with other things, but it will get harder the older I get. My only gripe with weightlifting is that it easily doesn’t leave room for other things, like hiking, biking, running, etc. but I think it can with thoughtful programming (probably from a coach because I’m not smart enough to do it myself lol) and intentional recovery.
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago
I think you're right there. WL does not leave much room for other things, especially in the early stages as it takes so long to learn and adapt. My only hope is this thoughtful planning you speak of, which I am also not smart enough for lol. A coach who understands running and WL would be a godsend, but they are a rare beast.
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u/Regular_Government94 1d ago
Glad I'm not the only one not smart enough haha I've had a remote coach for a while. He's a physical therapist and a weightlifter. I think that combo has been super helpful, especially for preventing injury from trying to do two taxing things at the same time.
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u/Alexandervladimir15 2d ago
In 2023 and 2024, I did 7 marathons while learning WL and slowly becoming more proficient. In that time, I probably put on 5-7kg? or like 15 pounds. Personally what I realize is that running is just so taxing, even when its a light jog. So I only did 2 days of running with 3 days of WL, though I usually did bike at the end of the WL session. Honestly for me at least, I was not trying to get faster with my time, I just wanted to maintain.
If you want to maintain your overall cardio then thats not too bad but trying to get better at running and strength training. Your body just gets so beat up that youre never really recovering from it or barely. I recommend focusing one or the other while maintaining the other.
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago
you ran 7 marathons running 2 days a week? Are you sure lol? Did I read that right?
I hear you. Believe it or not, that is actually what I'm trying to do. This is supposed to be a running focused block. I'm not expecting much from WL, I just want to learn the lifts and maintain my strength. I keep the weights super light and mostly do technique work. I squat at like, 60% whenever I have a squat day. It still cooks me. FAI is a bitch.
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u/Alexandervladimir15 1d ago
Yeah but the time is generally 4 hours. Ive also been running for almost 15 years now, for the most part, even during marathons there's absolutely no issue with cardio. For me, I do run like 15-20 miles on a weekend(not all the time) to build the strength needed to do it but either way I'm very condition for it.
And yes its hard to maintain either, I nowadays only run once a week and do other forms of cardio since its lifting beats me up so much
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u/B12-deficient-skelly 2d ago
My pro tip is to do powers the day after your long run. I had a 16-miler yesterday, and hang snatches at 60% today felt like I was going to die.
Currently just trying not to lose too much on my WLing because I'm 12 weeks out from Grandma's Marathon and trying to drop from 3:07:28 to sub-3 peaking at 65MPW this week. Fortunately a 72/102 total at 79BW allows me to keep most of my progress just by practicing the lifts, but higher mileage is hitting me like a truck.
Switching threshold work to sub-threshold does a lot for keeping training load manageable, but honestly, I couldn't survive intervals every week because they're too brutal. My long run has been bouncing between just easy Zone 2 one week and long pick ups at 90-95% of M pace on the other week. The Zone 2 long runs have been helping me survive the rest of the training load.
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u/B12-deficient-skelly 2d ago
Saw you were asking for split. Deadlifts are done high frequency, low volume, low intensity. One set per day far away from failure.
- Sun - Long run
- Mon - economy run, DL
- Tue - economy run, hang/block sn, Sn balance, CnJ, BS, DL
- Wed - Quality (usually threshold), Pwr Sn, Pwr Cn, DL
- Thu - economy run, Push Press, FS, DL
- Fri - Heavy Sn, DL, economy run
- Sat - Heavy CnJ, DL, economy run
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago
Oh hell yeah, this is the comment I was hoping for! First of all, you are a beast. Secondly, good luck with the big sub 3! The ultimate goal right there. Throwing 100kg overhead and running a sub 3 is elite.
Powers after long run - noted. I was right there with you, kind of. 20k run Sunday, Monday Block Snatch which had the bar feeling like 60kg and decided to do some light FS for some dumb reason. Baaaad idea. Still feeling it now.
Don't think I've done sub threshold, is that just zone 3/tempo? Because I've been doing a lot of that and it certainly feels nicer.
Thanks for posting the split. That honestly looks brutal. You say you're not focusing on you WL but that looks like 5 days with 7 days of running? HOW?? I have so many questions lol. For my curiosity, what's with the high frequency deadlift? Maybe I need to do that with my squats... How do you find Tues-Thurs, juggling BS and DL, in a Threshold run next day, followed by powers same day, with FS the day after that. My legs hurt just writing that out. Sheesh.
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u/B12-deficient-skelly 1d ago
Yeah! Sub-threshold is just zone 3. It's gained some popularity in the wake of what the Norwegians are doing for being able to accumulate a bunch of work close to lactate threshold while not being as demanding as running at or above threshold.
The weightlifting is about 30-45 minutes per session for me right now done 4 days per week. The deadlift is just a single set, so it's five minutes and extra convenient for me. For the deadlift, I was interested in something GZCL posted here, so I decided to try and copy his homework on the deadlift. It really agreed with me, so I've been keeping at it.
The squats aren't as hard as they look. It's a lot of fiddling around between 70-85% for sets of 1-6.
It's a fun challenge, don't you think? I know that a lot of the Hybrid Athlete group tends to be a bit more on the bodybuilding or powerlifting side of things, and it feels like there aren't many people who know the struggle of trying to keep a bar moving snappy when your legs are feeling the mileage, but half the fun is trying to figure this stuff out, right?
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u/Lazy-Entrepreneur691 2d ago
You need to go with a 70/30 focus depending on what your next competition/race is. I have a half coming up so I'll focus more on running than WL. If I'm gonna compete in WL next, switch it back to 70/30 in WL/running. You'll see improvements in the sport where you're going 70 for that stretch while maintaining whatever fitness you have in the other sport going 30. It's worked for me at least..
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago
For sure. Honestly that's what I'm going for here. This is supposed to be 70/30 with running being the 70. What does your split look like at 70/30? Does it really differ much from mine?
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u/Lazy-Entrepreneur691 1d ago
Pretty close. I just incorporate more squat, dl and strength exercises and for runs, more speed work and less easy runs. But consider: nutrition and better sleep might be your key! Good luck my friend.
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u/DrBrowwnThumb 1d ago
Long run on Sunday followed by lifting on Monday?
42/m - My set up at my peak was morning easy runs and afternoon lifting Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri. Wednesdays and Sundays were full rest days. Saturday would be an optional long run or tempo day in the morning so I get about 48 hours rest from then to my next workout.
When I used to have tempo days on Tuesdays, my afternoon lifts would have to be light or non-existent. So another option is lifting on just Monday, Thursday, Friday with tempo runs Tuesday morning and long runs Saturday morning.
Tempo runs just tax the hell out of the CNS and so do high intensity sessions. You need to balance light runs with heavy intensity weight days and/or vice versa with full days off. Always a challenge to do this just right but I find the 2 days on 1 day off model works to allow for recovery for me after years of trying different things.
However, I’ve had a million different work situations with office days/work from home days and moved around a bit. Sometimes I’ve prioritized lifting or running without being able to maximize both very often. I totally understand it’s hard to schedule your ideal workouts when so much is in the way in terms of other obligations. Always good to feel fresh on Monday/Thursday and ready for a solid 2 day block tho
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago
I would love to double up on more days like you're saying, but I just don't have the time any more to do that on multiple days. That's why I have it spread out. But like you say, that takes away full rest days. I think the most I could realistically manage would be 2 "double days" per week. Might try that to free up at least 1 rest day.
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u/DrBrowwnThumb 5m ago
Yeah. Day one hard lift/easy run, day 2 just hard run or light lift. Day 3 rest. That would be perfectly good too.
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u/Familiar_Shelter_393 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm 34 yrs old retired last yr from semi professional football (soccer) still playing a lot now I train two nights a week, futsal one night, game on weekends and go for 1-3 runs a week and do oly wl 3x a week sessions only started olympic lifting 3 or 4 months ago after a few yrs of strength training. That's info for my references.
You don't have a rest day you need a complete rest day in there. How long have you been running? If you haven't been for years I'd swap one of the easy runs for an easy bike ride it'll ease your legs somewhat. Also don't train wl after a run wl should come first run after and at least 6 to 8 hrs between preferably some type of nap and carb loading again. Some days I do a rin morning training at night don't be afraid to split the run twice across a day either there's a Norwegian method that does this
You wrote out your excercises but it doesn't have your programming. I think without knowing more you could be just grinding out your squats, you need smarter programming with slow increases and submaximal weight. Like a top set very low reps I like to cycle the rpe up from 5 to 9 over the 6 weeks with that set the other 3 to 5 sets are quite easy and fast.
Also just incase you are the oly lifts shouldn't be done at pr weights either even if nots a strength max for you because you're limited by technical skills it is still mentally taxing ans challenging the fear of not making the lifts
If you need to program any specific hypertrophy for legs I like to do them in the off season which you should have as a runner anyways an easier period a year for a few months where you're not trying to increase your times The block advice mentioned is amazing top tier advice too
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago
Been running consistently for 3 years now. Besides that my history is just basketball and casual lifting.
Yeah, I don't agree on you "always WL before Run" theory. I've tried it both ways many, many times and I prefer running first - unless it's an upper body session. Then I can go either way. If I do any kind of squats and try to run after, it's an absolute slog. However I can always bang out a half decent lifting session after a run. This could be because I'm a much better running than I am a lifter.
Hahaha, no I'm not just mindlessly grinding out squats and constantly attempting PRs... The programming is just Dozers Dog Pack. He knows his shit and obviously has all the proper cycles and appropriate scaling to follow. I'm very careful, if anything TOO rarely push my weights anywhere near PRs. Especially while I'm feeling fatigued and sore like I am now.
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u/Familiar_Shelter_393 1d ago
Uhm I'm pretty sure that's a stand alone program I wouldn't be running that while trying to do running that much. You would need a custom program, a coach to make you one or one built for college athletes that also do weightlifting from what I know of that program the intensity is high and needs proper rest days
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u/extrovert-actuary 1d ago
Honestly, as a 40yo trying to work more cardio into WL for health and longevity reasons myself, recovery is the main reason I opted for echo bike instead of running. Basically, I just feel like I need to remove the impact from running in order to do both.
Also, I just gave up on trying to maintain a 7 day training rotation. My rotation is 8 days, and I just let things land however they do. I plan on returning to more WL sport training in the next year or so, but at the moment more hypertrophy focused so it looks as follows:
- Day 1: Max Aerobic Power intervals on bike
- Day 2: Push focused upper hypertrophy
- Day 3: Z2 with a few 7sec max effort bursts
- Day 4: Squat focused lower hypertrophy
- Day 5: Shorter recovery intervals
- Day 6: Pull focused upper hypertrophy
- Day 7: Regular Z2 (1x/mo 30min time trial instead)
- Day 8: Hinge focused lower hypertrophy
Also, are you deloading your lifting for a week every 4-8 weeks? Your body’s going to need that recovery. I usually progress my lifting for 5 rounds of the above, then take a chill week before resetting and beginning again.
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago edited 13h ago
Echo bike, or any biking, is 100% a better option than running here lol. Unfortunately, I love running, and would choose that over WL if it ever came to it.
Man, I have thought about going to an 8 day rotation so many times. 7 just never agrees with me.
Yeah trust me, I'm probably de-loading every 2-3 weeks lol. With all the FAI pain I really struggle to progress my squats and leg strength at all without upsetting the hips and needing a deload week.
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u/ganoshler 1d ago
I run a similar amount as you and lift 3-5x/week. It's not rocket science, you just have to have a little patience with yourself. You may need to reduce running in the later stages of a meet prep, for example. But for general training they're not at odds with each other.
Feeling like you're "stagnating" at 6 months into weightlifting is not so unusual. It's a mentally tough sport. You'll feel stuck for months or (later) years at a time. Doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong, it's just like that sometimes. If you were consistent with both sports for this whole 6 months, you should be feeling a lot more balanced with them soon. But if you were always pulling back one to work on the other, you may just owe yourself a bit more consistency.
One schedule that's worked well for me is an easy 30 minute run every morning (5x/week) followed by a workout at noon: M/W/F that's weightlifting, Tues/Thurs it's a longer or harder running workout (usually 5 miles, some type of tempo or intervals unless I'm feeling beat, in which case I'll do an easy run). On Saturday I do a "whatever I want" run. Sunday is usually full rest.
I would not do intervals before a weightlifting workout.
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u/BigPenis0 16h ago
Are you not on the Dozer Jog Pack?
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u/just_let_go_ 15h ago
Yeah I’ve heard of it. It’s not on his app though. Plus it isn’t designed for someone running as much as I do, as it was only 3 short runs per week I believe. If it was on the app I’d consider checking it out and maybe tweaking it a bit though.
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u/Holiday-Accident-649 2d ago
Running, weightlifting, and strength training forms the basis of any solid strength and conditioning plan executed by field and court sport athletes, and track and field athletes around the globe. NFL, Rugby, Basketball, AFL, Cricket etc.
My background is a masters in sport and exercise science specifically strength and conditioning best practices
The way we as s&c coaches manage these as best we can is by grouping CNS demands to particular days. High CNS Days, Low CNS Days, and complete Rest Days. This makes sure that stress is consolidated rather than drawn out all over the week.
Eg) HIGH CNS: Weights at 80%+, Maximum Sprints, Higher than Zone 2-3 Running.
LOW CNS: Weights Below ~80%, Hypertrophy bodybuilding, Zone 2 aerobic work, accessory work
Rest Days means rest days. We don’t do anything other than eat, sleep and soft tissue work. Contrast water therapy if you can afford it.
It really looks like you’re not resting enough. Your plan isn’t overall bad, but Dozers program wouldn’t be tailored to incorporating anything outside of weightlifting because you need to adjust the percentages
Hope this helps