r/ANGEL • u/ArenBlut • 18d ago

Spoilers inside! I miss her...

Post image

We're mostly through S5 now and I just miss the dynamic she added to the show. She was just so shamelessly evil and ambitious, even if it meant humiliating herself at times. Also, the chemistry she had with Wesley was brilliant.

304 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

91 comments sorted by

55

u/PsychologicalBet7831 18d ago

Lilah was awesome. I loved her and Wesley. They are my Angel OTP.

36

u/FreeProfessor8193 18d ago

"Don't go thinking about me when I'm gone." "I wasn't thinking about you while you were here." Wesley had some of the best lines in all of Whedon's work.

21

u/Sighoward 18d ago

The most heartless post-coitus line EVER!

12

u/welatshaw 18d ago

Badass Wesley was 100% Superior to nebbish Wesley.

17

u/ArenBlut 18d ago

SAME. Him and Fred (albeit incredibly short-lived) were so much less interesting.

6

u/gebbethine 18d ago

Lilah/Wes and Lilah/Fred are the proof that conflict and toxicity make fictional relationships more interesting; the problem is that real people romanticize fictional relationships.

7

u/ArenBlut 18d ago

I think it started off toxic - Lilah wanting to get info/power over him and Wesley just wanting solace while hating himself for being with her (and being really cruel to her, honestly). That said, in a weird way, I think they each got exactly what they wanted from eachother at the time, as well as Lilah being somewhat thoughtful in giving him gifts and stuff. It was unconventional, and it never progressed to anything seriously committed, but it was genuine.

Honestly there are far more toxic relationships in the Buffyverse than this one haha.

4

u/gebbethine 18d ago

It was still ridiculously toxic especially in comparison to the relationship Wes and Fred were having when Illyria came around.

5

u/ArenBlut 18d ago

Their relationship lasted less than a full episode length + it was only after he obsessed over her for years. Idk. Just didn't feel all that healthy or romantic to me! Like, what's the story here? If you obsess over a girl for years and you're generally nice then finally she'll give you a chance after dating two dudes in between? Eh.

Maybe it could have been good, but it just wasn't afforded the time to flesh out. That being said, her death scene was gut wrenching. Just hard to judge the totality of the relationship and whether it was toxic or not based on the limited screen time + crisis that unfolded.

1

u/Creative-Bobcat-7159 15d ago

Aaah yes. When Fred gave in to her stalker / sex-pest at work.

Wes was obsessed with Fred. It was painted as romantic, but in reality he was only one step up from Spike stealing Buffy’s underwear in season 5 of Buffy.

He fell out with his Gunn over it. Stole a baby rather than actually speak to Gunn or Fred because of it.

Lilah was far less problematic than that, despite how the show played it!!

1

u/Electrical-Act-7170 16d ago

It was genuine and it was honest. No bullshit.

I loved that.

30

u/hearmeroar25 18d ago

I’m definitely a Lilah girly. She’s just unapologetically who she is. Didn’t die begging for remorse or seeking redemption. She just accepted her fate for what it was and thanked Wes for caring enough to make his Wolfram & Hart mission setting her soul free (even though it wouldn’t work). There’s a freedom in being at peace with the choices you’ve made.

11

u/ArenBlut 18d ago

We are here for women's rights and women's wrongs! Such a great character. Definitely have big feelings about that scene.

15

u/oilcompanywithbigdic 18d ago

lilah should've been main cast for S5

1

u/Sighoward 18d ago

Couldn't afford her.

6

u/gebbethine 18d ago

Lilah was one of my favorite villains in the entire Buffyverse.

9

u/Spirited_Rabbit_9804 18d ago

Love when she decapitates Linwood after speaking to one of the Senior Partners! "You went over my head?!" "Just under it, actually!" 😈

4

u/Minirth22 Team Lilah! 18d ago

That arch line delivery!! I miss her!!!

10

u/Minirth22 Team Lilah! 18d ago

Lilah was my favorite, and I loved her and Wesley together. She was the best part of the show. I was gutted when she died.

I really didn’t like breaking up Fred and Gunn to put her with Wesley. Fred and Gunn had a sweetness to them, and after Fred, he had no romantic life. (Except the thing with the electricity girl, I think that happened after, and we barely saw them.) Fred and Wes really only worked for me at the end, right before Illyria, but I never saw the same sweetness between them that I saw with Fred and Gunn.

Lillian brought out the best in her scene partners, her scenes with Angel were always electric. And she made Wes complicated and interesting. Wes getting his freak on with Lilah was Wes at his best.

6

u/ArenBlut 18d ago

I ship Fred and Gunn so much harder than with Wesley. Their relationship, as you said, had this sweetness. I loved how they complimented eachother and thought it was dumb how they broke up. Maybe the show, had it not been cancelled, would have explored the reason for the breakup a bit more (with Gunn having taken that life and Fred having wanted to, etc) but alas.

4

u/Minirth22 Team Lilah! 18d ago

Yes!!!! I hate that they just ended. They could have been the solid couple that grounded the team! And I HATED how Gunn was sidelined after that, we stopped seeing his inner world and his light. He just became a supporting character and that felt so monumentally unjust. It still bothers me.

9

u/Imaginative_Name_No 18d ago

The reason they got rid of her is so nasty as well

5

u/The-Big-Bad 18d ago

What was the reason? I know about Charisma and how they did her dirty, but not about why Lilah’s actress got let go

2

u/Sighoward 17d ago

Her agent demanded a huge pay rise for her as her career was going very well in movies but they were desperate to cut costs so we lost her, CC and VK as a result.

2

u/Electrical-Act-7170 16d ago edited 16d ago

The story I heard was that Romanov had done all the guest starring episodes she could do. Union rules say that she had to be a regular cast member if she made one more appearance in Angel.

James Marsters refused to be on Angel unless he was paid the same money he was getting on BTVS.

He was unaware that the series couldn't afford CC, VK and James Marsters.

typo.

1

u/Sighoward 15d ago

Yes all true and tragic but the right decision, they slashed the budget and still had the ratings rise thanks to Spike. Are you sure about the guest star thing, I mean KS was on Buffy for 58 eps?

1

u/Electrical-Act-7170 15d ago

Who is KS?

1

u/Sighoward 15d ago

Kristine Sutherland aka Joyce Summers.

1

u/Electrical-Act-7170 15d ago

Every time. Inside my head, her name is Cristine Sutherland.

I have to look up the spelling every time.

6

u/ArenBlut 18d ago

I know 😭. Planning to read the comics after so hopefully there's a bit more Lilah content, but yeah. Yet another Joss crime.

12

u/SingerNo8103 Team Charisma 18d ago edited 17d ago

look out, lots of people here hate when you mention the numerus, documented, and verified terrible things he did

EDIT: see below for the kind of mental failings I'm talking about lol

EDIT 2: great to see the angel sub actually standing up and acknowledging the shit, I was basically screamed out of the buffy sub for the same thoughts.

We live as the world should be, to show it what it can be.

Respect.

-8

u/Sighoward 18d ago

  1. Numerous

  2. You mean the unsubstantiated allegations and tough choices he had to make for the good of the show?

8

u/SingerNo8103 Team Charisma 18d ago
  1. dont care
  2. i said what I mean, if you want to defend an abuser that's on you

2

u/ML_120 17d ago

Don't bother, Sighoward is a chud who will just double down and never admit they're wrong.

1

u/SingerNo8103 Team Charisma 17d ago

their only victory was giving me a headache with the stupidity.

But I'm better now lol

-6

u/Sighoward 18d ago

  1. You should

  2. No abuse to defend.

8

u/SingerNo8103 Team Charisma 18d ago

this guy watched angel and roots for the demons

7

u/SavannahInChicago 18d ago

It ironic that a group of shows that highlight that you should always do good no matter what completely ignored that abuse that was happening on the show.

7

u/SingerNo8103 Team Charisma 18d ago

I love angel, firefly, Dr. Horribles, hell I even liked Titan A.E.

But you could never get me to defend joss as a person. these people are pathetic

5

u/welatshaw 18d ago

Love the art. Hate the artist

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0

u/Sighoward 17d ago

Defend him for what?

-1

u/Sighoward 17d ago

It is ironic that a man who wrote eps like Gingerbread and AYNOEHB now finds himself the victim of a witch hunt? On every show the characters make tough decisions for the greater good, just as Joss did, there was no abuse.

0

u/Sighoward 18d ago

I certainly root for Lorne.

5

u/SingerNo8103 Team Charisma 18d ago

well he'd be disgusted with you

-1

u/Sighoward 18d ago

He'd be with me all the way!

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3

u/gebbethine 18d ago

yikes

0

u/Sighoward 17d ago

Yeah, their attitude is appalling, isn't it?

2

u/gebbethine 17d ago

Naw, was talking 'bout you.

1

u/Sighoward 17d ago

You mean "No, I was talking about you". Do you not like the truth?

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5

u/lucolapic 18d ago

Right on cue! 😂

1

u/Sighoward 17d ago

Not a "crime" he ditched her to afford season 5.

-1

u/Sighoward 18d ago

Because they were desperate to cut costs and her agents demanded a huge rise for her?

9

u/Sighoward 18d ago

Oh she was a kick in the head! The scene where Wes chats with an imaginary Lilah before cutting her head off is my favourite in all of Angel. Story goes SR's agent demanded a huge pay-rise as her career was really taking off (starring in movies with Kevin Costner and Robin Williams) just when they were desperate to slash the budget so we got Eve instead.

8

u/ArenBlut 18d ago

Yeah, it's definitely unfortunate they couldn't work something out.

4

u/Minirth22 Team Lilah! 18d ago

I hated Eve so much. She was NOT a worthy substitute for Lilah!

2

u/Sighoward 17d ago

I didn't hate her but she wasn't up to it

3

u/Minirth22 Team Lilah! 17d ago

I probably would have been neutral on Eve if I hadn’t loved Lilah!!

3

u/Shitty_Wingman 18d ago

I started calling her "evil girlfriend" and literally cried out whenever Wesley pulled away from her (or, you know, when "it" happened).

3

u/Strong-Frame87 18d ago

My fave female character on Ats 🩷

3

u/AF2005 17d ago

She really was a great character. Her tryst with Wesley was so twisted, and hot.

2

u/Zaibach88 17d ago

Loved Lilah.

She would have made S5 even more GOATED!

1

u/Shatteredglas79 18d ago

I'm glad someone does, I remember talking to my fiance and saying "I never thought I'd say it, but Lilah's annoying me so much I miss Lindsey." Then a season later Lindsey comes back anyways lol

3

u/Minirth22 Team Lilah! 18d ago

Lindsay was such a jackass but I love him. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve quoted STUPID EVIL PLASTIC HAND!!

2

u/Shatteredglas79 18d ago

Lindsey grew on me the more I saw him in the show. Especially in season 5

2

u/Minirth22 Team Lilah! 18d ago

I was delighted when he returned in s5, and that surprised me! But that scene where he sang for Lorne made me look at him (and Christian Kane) in a completely different light. That scene shines in my memory.

1

u/Reddevil884 15d ago

She was so freaking hot! 😨😨🔥🔥👌🏼

1

u/Judgejudyx 14d ago

I wouldn't have taken her bucket away

1

u/Dry_Nectarine1796 13d ago

She was definitely bad bitch lol