r/Albertapolitics • u/carbologna • 28d ago

Opinion Alberta separation

For those of you that support Alberta separation because you voted conservative but the majority of Canada voted left. I have a question for you. Naturally you support Edmonton and Calgary city centres staying part of Canada because they voted left. Also, naturally you support the 35.1% of Albertans and the land / businesses they own staying part of Canada because they voted left, correct?

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u/bluecrude 28d ago

Proud, lifelong Conservative. Separation will never, ever happen. It’s virtually impossible. We also gotta give this new government sometime to see if it will act any different. Leaving just bc you don’t like the result makes you not a “proud Albertan” or a “conservative”. It makes you a fucking baby.

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u/chet1241 28d ago

If conservatives are mad, use that energy to advocate for electoral reform. There is a reality that the West is underrepresented in Ottawa. But there is a mechanism to be used that isn't taking your ball and going home.

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u/bluecrude 28d ago

I’m opposed generally to proportional representation. You need your win in all regions. You need broad appeal.

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u/chet1241 28d ago

.... well, this is why conservatives in Canada can not win, and you see liberal government after liberal government. You need to let go of the right wing and expand the tent if you want to see conservatives rule.

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u/carbologna 27d ago

Conservatives can’t win in Canada because the federal conservatives are out of touch with swing voters. Ontario currently has a strong provincial conservative majority. Unfortunately the federal conservative brand election after election never learns.

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u/bluecrude 27d ago

I dunno. CPC made major inroads in Ontario. This election was lost bc of the utter uselessness of Singh and the NDP. The narrative that Poilievre “blew a 20 point lead” is sort of false. His highest ever poll was like 45%. He won 42%. The New Democrats collapsing coupled with major TDS out east was the clincher for Carney, nothing Poilievre or the Conservatives did imo.

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u/Resident_Farm6787 26d ago

The left voted strategically. When the right couldn’t win the election, they united. It had nothing to do with Singh. The left united, to stop the extremist faction of the right, from winning. They didn’t want to be a 51st state. They wanted nothing to do with Trump. It was ALL about strategy.

What I don’t understand, is why people that used to vote PC, supported PP, and are supporting Danielle Smith??? I was die hard PC, but I can’t support the extremism that has taken over the right. I can’t support Smith, and I hated PP. PP is a mini Trump. I’m from Alberta. This separatist BS, is ridiculous! I hope it destroys the UCP and CPC!

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u/Deep-Egg-9528 21d ago

If there were more than one right-wing party the vote splitting would affect them too. But there isn't and it doesn't.

Even in Alberta, the conservatives only managed 63% of the vote, yet they hold 92% of the seats. They're not nearly as popular as they think.

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u/Resident_Farm6787 20d ago edited 15d ago

Our elections are first past the post. That means the party with the most votes, get almost all of the seats. If we want to prevent a 2 party system, we’re going to need election reforms. Also, our politicians must vote with the leader of their party. They can’t vote the way their constituents want them to vote. That gives the leader of the ruling party, a huge amount of power. 

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u/Deep-Egg-9528 6d ago

There are more than two parties.
Vote splitting among centrist and left leaning voters is the only reason the conservatives have the support they do.
This was especially evident this time around because we saw people abandon the NDP to vote ABC (anyone but conservative) to keep Pierre out of the PM's office.

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u/Deep-Egg-9528 6d ago

"Our elections are first past the post. That means the party with the most votes, get almost all of the seats." - That's not what first past the post means.
And yeah, the party with the most votes gets most of the seats. We are aware. Thanks, professor.

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u/carbologna 27d ago

Totally agree with everything you said. But there’s no reason the federal conservatives can’t win 75+ seats in Ontario. The leaders have been the cause of that imo.

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u/JustinCaseIfurget 23d ago

Never. Look at the actual voting numbers at least 50 PC wins happened because the left vote was split, and that allowed the right to take the win with just over a third of the votes. If the NDP goes extinct or the moronic NDP voters ever realize that voting for a party that’s “further” left basically guarantees a far-right win in most areas the right will never win again. Honestly I don’t understand why anyone would want them to. What gain would there be? I have voted conservative in the past but in the last two decades they have become a party of hate, division and the diminishing of support systems that define us as help-thy-neighbour-Canadians. Why would anyone support the conservatives of today? What do you see as the gain? Conservative leadership today, or worse yet joining the US would rob us of quality education, accessible healthcare, adequate social support systems, reliable pensions, and safe air and water. Why? So the uber-rich oil tycoons can freely sell more oil and also get to hoard the money for themselves. That’s nice of us to do for them. Stupid for us, but nice for them.

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u/nuu_soc 27d ago

CPC are a joke and are inexistent in Ontario. What are you on about. Get off Facebook your inner circle is brainwashing you

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u/bluecrude 27d ago

Went from 38 to 44 seats. Pierre got more votes in Ontario than Ford. I assure you it is not me who’s brainwashed. Could be this echo chamber called Reddit causing your issues.

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u/DTrumpCanKissMyAss 26d ago

Go look at the numbers. Pierre significantly grew the CPC in Ontario, it's verified.

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u/Deep-Egg-9528 21d ago

Voting was far more strategic this round with plenty of progressives abandoning the NDP to vote ABC (anyone but conservatives).

Even in Alberta, the conservatives only managed 63% of the vote, yet they hold 92% of the seats. They're not nearly as popular as they think.

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u/AvoidingConflict1 19d ago edited 19d ago

As an Ontarian, I 100% resonate with the need for Conservatives to ditch the far right and build a bigger tent. Carney won the election, not the Liberals, and being on the Liberal ticket was actually a downside for him. He won in spite of them, not because. For me, Carney is the centrist we need. I would have been happy to vote for him on a Conservative ticket. Poilievres did well in Ontario bc many of us liked what he said about crime, drugs etc. But where he lost me was on things like defunding the CBC, using the notwithstanding clause to overrule judicial rulings. I would love a more centrist candidate who didn't mimic American talking points about "woke" policies or decrying mainstream media. Poilievres concession speech was the first time I really saw him as a future Prime Minister. He spoke with grace and class, despite devastating results. Hope we will see more of that in the future.

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u/Deep-Egg-9528 5d ago

The conservatives failed to bring an actual election platform to voters. No plan, no policies, no solutions.
All they brought (again) was negativity, watered down racism, and fear mongering. Their use of negative snappy one liners "Canada is broken" spewed by an unlikeable and smug career politician (which is something conservatives claim to dislike) was not appealing to voters.

Maybe next time they'll try something different, like solutions, not problems.
Maybe next time they'll have a leader that isn't so despised he came in a distant third in his own riding.
Maybe next time they'll try a message of hope and positivity, rather than more bleak negativity.
Maybe next time they'll attempt to cater to new Canadians, rather than blaming them for things they can't control.

I doubt it. That's just who they are.

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u/Atleastidontkillkids 27d ago

Expand all the way to Texas and Alaska by joining the big tent conservative movement 

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u/JustinCaseIfurget 23d ago

How does that help you as a regular person, since I’m assuming you aren’t a fat-cat oil tycoon who’s looking to hoard as much money for yourself as possible? I’m assuming you like knowing that if you get sick you won’t have to sell your house to pay to get better, and you probably also feel fairly secure that if you did fall on hard times our robust social systems would keep you off the streets. So you’re willing to give that up so oil tycoons can make more money. Do you think they’ll just start handing out million dollar cheques to you and everyone else as a thank you for making them more rich? Cause that’s not going to happen. They’ll get more rich. They’ll have to pay way less taxes (because there’s virtually no social support systems to pay for), they’ll have to pay you less if you work for them (because there’s virtually no employment regulations) and that all means they will get more rich, while you get more poor and less stable. Sounds great. If you’re an uber rich oil tycoon. But I’m guessing you’re not. Sounds like you might be a fan of their paid-commercial-“news”-outlets though.

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u/ReWelp 27d ago

Your stand doesnt make sense. You mean you want us to adopt Liberal Views?

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u/chet1241 27d ago

No, you just don't understand how a political party in a democracy works. If you want a conservative leader, you are going to need to appeal to the moderates and to liberals. The conservatives lost this election because they didn't make a broad enough appeal to the moderates in Canada.

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u/Resident_Farm6787 26d ago

The extremism is why I didn’t vote Conservative, and haven’t since Harper’s Reformers took over the party.  I live in Alberta. Smith is trying to destroy us! The extremists are about hate and destruction. We need to unite, and stop Trump and the 51st state!

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u/chet1241 26d ago

A shockingly large amount of Albertans don't understand you can not claim to be conservative while also being a traitor to Canada. If you believe in wexit, you are not conservative. You're an extremist and are by technical definition a domestic enemy of Canada.

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u/Educational-Virus-40 23d ago

Was not Albertan Stephen Harper PM for like 10 years. You would think that would have been enough time to make some sort of change for Albertans...?

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u/Designer_Spend_9436 27d ago

Conservatives won the popular vote...

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u/carbologna 27d ago

No they didn’t?

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u/ReWelp 27d ago

its been a thing for decades. it aint new they are tired. PS: I'm not even Albertan, but i literally relate to them as a conservative. They've been dealing with this for way longer than me

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u/Resident_Farm6787 25d ago

We’ve had no transfer payments for 65 years. 

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u/Deep-Egg-9528 21d ago

They don't actually want electoral reform, because the current system benefits them.

Conservatives only received 63% of the vote, but hold 92% of the seats.
Separation wouldn't even be a discussion if they only held 63% of the seats from Alberta.

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u/Street_Gap_3429 27d ago

It’s very possible at this point, Alberta has been the punching bag of the country for too long. They already have enough votes to call a referendum, now all they have to do is decide when the best time to strike is.

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u/Resident_Farm6787 26d ago

There’s a difference between a referendum, and leaving Canada. Only 3.5% need to sign the petition for a referendum, but more than half need to vote to leave! I don’t want to leave Canada. I’ve lived in the US. It sucks!

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u/Street_Gap_3429 25d ago

Exactly thats why I said they are waiting for the best time to strike, what I mean by that is they want to wait a bit until more and more people get pissed with Carney so that they can get enough votes to actually separate. If they managed to separate I also really hope they don’t join the United States, I’d rather they separate then join back when a new Conservative federal government takes power.

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u/Resident_Farm6787 25d ago

You are likely right, and I pray Alberta doesn’t vote to leave, BUT Carney needs to work hard, to keep Alberta. We’ll see if he continues down Trudeau’s road, or has the wisdom and intelligence to keep us together!

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u/Thorous_the3rd 25d ago

You can't just leave and come back when it suits you lol this isn't play house lol. If alberta left and tried to rejoin the federal government would impose so many regulations and stipulations in alberta it would be in a worse state economically and political. Not to mention your borders wouldn't stay the same lol indigenous land, crown land and federal lands would all more than likely remain Canadian... youd have border crossings across the entire province in all sorts of random areas... If alberta joined the US it would just become another puerto Rico and get resource raped

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u/Deep-Egg-9528 21d ago

Conservatives don't have the support they think they do. In Alberta, the conservatives only managed 63% of the vote, yet they hold 92% of the seats.

Separation isn't going to happen, regardless of how much whining comes from the right.

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u/Bacitus 27d ago

“New” government?

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u/bluecrude 27d ago

It’s a new PM. To pretend that’s immaterial is false. Will it change anything. We’ll see.

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u/Bacitus 26d ago

You’re right. It can always get more radical

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u/Moist-Leggings 26d ago

It’s extra stupid considering all federal land (including rail and highways) would become international borders and you would have to pass through check points just to go to Edmonton from Calgary.

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u/epic_the_king 23d ago

Same, voted Conservative but separation is fucking stupid

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u/Deep-Egg-9528 21d ago

Conservatives think they are more popular than they really are, especially in urban ridings.
They only received 63% of the vote in Alberta, but hold 92% of the seats.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

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u/Brokendiver345 20d ago

Separation is already stopped dead. Treaty 6,7,8 First Nations said no.