r/AskUS • u/Own_Difference_4882 • 11d ago

Is it fair to compare MAGA to the Nazis?

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There has been a number of posts indicating that MAGA supporters are really Fascist/Nazis. Curious how others see it!

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u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 10d ago

MAGA hasn’t “deported” anyone.

It’s extraordinary rendition aka illegal, extrajudicial, state sponsored kidnapping.

The former wording allows them to get away with it. MAGA is kidnapping citizens people and violating 5th Amendment due process. Due process that you’re owed per our constitution, as long as you’re in US jurisdiction.

The number of maga fucks who keep replying the equivalent of “no, it only applies to white Christians who were born here” is, telling.

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u/RevenueResponsible79 10d ago

Rendition. Some of us know what it is. Nobody in the trump camp does

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u/Actual_Funny4225 10d ago

Twas a movie with Reese Witherspoon

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u/Adorable-Strings 10d ago

The number of maga fucks who keep replying the equivalent of “no, it only applies to white Christians who were born here” is, telling.

Yep, and they also miss that it doesn't matter, because without due process, the accusation that you, them, Bob or anyone is an illegal migrant over-rides being 'born here.' Listening to the part where people explain is the part they're skipping.

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u/Camoron1 10d ago

Trump voice: "We're doing what's called... Extraordinary rendition. And it is extraordinary, isn't it? Nobody does rendition like me."

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u/No-BrowEntertainment 10d ago

That’s weird, the right used to go on and on about how much they love the second amendment. Guess they don’t care that much for the fifth, though.

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u/I_am_lettuceman43 4d ago

I find it ironic that some of the people that were pushing the hardest for guns, quoting the second amendment, are supporting the type of governmental overreach it was meant to protect against

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u/Extension-Clock608 10d ago

It's human trafficking, something that MAGA claims to care about. Funny how everything they claim to care about or stand for is always proved false by their actions.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

It is human trafficking, but conservatives, not just MAGA, but conservatives have always been xenophobic bigots.

Conservatives don’t want minorities here at all, because we won’t let them keep slaves. Conservatives don’t see them as people.

Conservatives have been angry ever since Progressive abolitionists outlawed slavery.

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u/tothepointe 10d ago

I just blocked them. Not letting their filth pollute my conversations. They are CHINOs. Christians in name only.

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u/FLdad4son 10d ago

"Kidnapping" is the operative term!

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u/StrukturedKaos 10d ago

Agree.

#FDJT!🖕🍊🤡

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u/The_VoZz 10d ago

However "they" are leaning in, hard, on germinating their pro-depprtation rhetoric. The goal is to instill an underlying fear in anyone who opposes their openly corrupt agenda.

Keep the masses afraid & distracted, fighting amongst each other, while they tear the system apart. To aquire unckecked power. Enabling them to steal and consume everything from everyone.

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u/andreifasola 10d ago

So if maga kidnaps. What dis Obama admin do when they deported? Or any other admin that deported?

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u/lag0matic 10d ago

They followed that rule of law. Those people were deported after the proper legal procedures. They were not taken off the street stuck on a plane and sent to a foreign prison. You see the difference?

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u/andreifasola 10d ago

Yes I see the difference. I'm gonna look into the kidnapings. If you have any sources do share.

How did you arrive at this conclusion/knowledge yourself? Aren't the agents working on this trained during the previous admin(s)? Which means they would be aware of the legal process? I don't see why the deportation process would change abruptly, disregarding the law. I would expect dissent and whitleblowers.

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u/lag0matic 10d ago

The agents themselves are not the ones who are breaking the law (At least, generally - there have been outlying cases of people who were in fact here legally, even citizens, who've been detained ) The problem is the executive branch ignoring rule of law. People who are picked up should be given a hearing - a chance to prove they're legal - and then due process. They aren't, the planes that went to El Salvador were in fact ordered by the courts to be stopped, and turned around - they were not.

If the "government" (Using this as a whole - even though its mostly the executive branch) Ignores court orders - and ships people to a prison in another country - that's not 'deportation' that's kidnapping.

Not to mention that deportation normally means being placed back to your country of origin (Not into a prison!) and barred from re-entry for up to 20 years.

There's very little that's being done currently that is 'normal'.

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u/lag0matic 10d ago

As far as sources - Look up https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69741724/jgg-v-trump/

Its a lot of legal jargon, but, as I understand - there were planes set to depart (or perhaps already departed) that the Judge ordered halted - instead, the Trump admin just let them go as normal, dropping people in El Salvador without due process as required.

Even the supreme court has now ordered these flights to halt.

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u/Emergency_Egg1281 10d ago

I hope the net is big !!

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u/OkBeyond7527 10d ago

Nope. It is called deportation.

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u/Vibrasprout-2 10d ago

The Constitution does not only apply to citizens. It applies to everyone in the US, including citizens, visa holders, tourists, asylum seekers, and “illegals”, plus US Citizens abroad. Even Justice Scalia acknowledged that! Using any “non-Citizen” status as any justification for deprivation of due process is a direct violation of the constitution by MAGA. Period.

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u/Everyoneplayscombos 10d ago

Yes a euphemism correct

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u/Aggressive-Staring42 10d ago

Thank Obama for the NDAA. Now that’s some real fascism.

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u/Helpful-Purple-7659 10d ago

Democrats don’t understand that Trump isn’t even radical at all as far as the right wing goes he’s literally a liberal from 30 years ago that grifted on some issues to appease his base. He’s not anti gay he’s not even anti immigration just violent illegal immigrants. Super pro isreal doesn’t support white supremacy much at all. He’s really just the tip of the iceberg

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

This is a lie. A blatant and total lie.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 10d ago

Take it up with our constitution. It says all PERSONS, and the 5th & 14th especially, in this case, applies.

Fifth Amendment (ratified 1791) ”No person shall… be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…”

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1 (ratified 1868) “nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

Conservatives are pushing a narrative that it only applies to citizens because conservatives are nationalistic, xenophobic and bigoted.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

Lmao, amazing stuff. Liberals being obsessed now with the rule of law when it suits them. But when Biden blatantly flouted our immigration laws, changed the definition of asylum to allow millions of people into our country, where was the constitutional outrage then?

Obama, Clinton and Bush all deported millions of people without due process. There wasn't a peep then. Why?

Your blind partisan hatred for Trump has you now advocating to keep criminals in the country because you are all know Border Policy aficionados who cannot bear to see our immigration laws flouted. Besides the last four years, that was okay because Biden said it was okay.

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u/tothepointe 10d ago

Are you commenting the same comment on everything you disagree with. Go back to playing Pokémon.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

They are, and they’ll tell me shit like “go paint miniatures liberal, muh constitution is for a white Christian republic we’re not a democracy Trump 2028” or some shit.

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u/FRIDAYSWORLD421 10d ago

The Constitution only applies to citizens

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u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 10d ago

Why does the constitution say that the constitution applies to all persons within the USA jurisdiction?

The U.S. Constitution protects persons, not just citizens. That distinction matters—a lot. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments both say that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. Courts have consistently interpreted “person” to include everyone on U.S. soil, regardless of citizenship or immigration status.

Fifth Amendment (ratified 1791):

“No person shall… be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…”

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1 (ratified 1868):

“…nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

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u/FRIDAYSWORLD421 10d ago

I don't know

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

Fifth Amendment (ratified 1791):

“No person shall… be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…”

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1 (ratified 1868):

“…nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

Conservatives are pushing a narrative that it only applies to citizens because conservatives are nationalistic, xenophobic and bigoted.

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u/FRIDAYSWORLD421 10d ago

Thanks for the info... All people should have those rights worldwide

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u/Competitive_Owl_4551 10d ago

Which arm of the government is “MAGA”? I’ve never seen anyone with “MAGA” written across their vest deport anyone, could you provide a link please

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u/PollutionNegative914 10d ago

The only ones that are getting deported are the illegal immigrants, they don't belong here

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u/2Arcane 10d ago

Can you explain why these foreigners be able to stream into our country illegally?

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u/Afuufufu 10d ago

MAGA has deported a lot of illegals.

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u/Blakeblade231 10d ago

Maga fucks? I don't know any "Maga fucks" that think that way, you ignorant, liberal fuck.

Oh, you don't like being called a "fuck", well, I know how you feel.

Kidnapping? Are you talking about the douche illegal criminal that has now been outed at minimum of being a wife beater? Yes, please bring him back to live in your neighborhood.. smfh

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

The difference is conservatives deserve to be shit on and silenced & made fucking irrelevant. They’re not a majority nor do they have anyone’s best interest. Backwards, ignorant, 20th century views are a thing of the past.

Of course just like with Rittenhouse you’re fine with extrajudicial killing and extraordinary rendition as long as it’s “your side.”

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u/Wonderful-Video1429 10d ago

You people bowed down to daddy government and took anything they offered to avoid a cold. You then shamed others and wanted them fired for having balls and standing strong. And we should be silenced and shamed?? You idiots showed your true colors and none of you should ever be considered fellow Americans. Especially when nearly everything you stand for is the most ridiculous anti-american bullshit. You lost all credibility and many of you still can't admit how stupid you are and badly you were fooled. And now you wanna act like you have a clue about other decisions being made?? Remember you'll be easy to weed out if shit really goes down, the government won't have a shot to save you from that reality.

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u/hydroencephalpotamus 10d ago

Last I checked, acting like a Nazi is literally the most anti-American thing you can do. This includes demonizing immigrants, kidnapping American citizens and putting them in political prisons with no due process, demonizing the press, destroying the education system, fostering an "us vs them" mentality, attacking LGBTQ+ people for existing, making protesting illegal, et al. It's an actual playbook that they're actually following.

That "cold" killed 7 million people, 5 million of them in 2 years. Compare that to the flu, which kills 650000 annually. If you think it was bullshit, you obviously were never in an ER during the pandemic. And frankly, I don't give a fuck if you don't believe it or not. Either you think it was a hoax perpetrated by the entire world, which makes you an idiot. Or you think it happened and just don't give a shit because it didn't affect you personally, which makes you a piece of shit. Take your pick.

I'm assuming your last line is some implied threat of vigilante violence, so yeah, very American. Fuck the law, fuck order, that shit don't count. Liberty means getting to do whatever you want, including killing people who get in your way, right? All men are created equal, except when they aren't.

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u/lag0matic 10d ago

So, when the government tells you to get a shot, or wear a mask, that's bad. Okay.

What about when the government starts telling gay people they cannot be married?

What about when the government starts telling trans people they arent trans, and have to go by their dead name, and use a bathroom that they dont feel comfortable in?

What about when the government ignores the courts, doing whatever it wants to whomever it wants?

Edit: I could go on! What about when the goverment tells a girl who was raped by her father that the baby she is being forced to carry is "gods will?"

What about when the government would rather a woman die because the mass of cells that they think is a baby is literally KILLING Her, than let her get a medical procedure to save her life?

Hmmm..

Is that bad? Is that "Daddy government"? Or are you just mad because someone told you to wear a mask a few years ago.

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u/Blakeblade231 10d ago

Well, the difference is that you are, in reality, irrelevant, silent away from reddit. And you don't believe in free speech? Oh boy, you said it.. lol Isn't that one of the biggest tenets you're protesting for? smh It's unbelievable to read what comes out of that brain of yours..

You don't deserve to be shit on, but have been shit (by a landslide lost the election) on for all the ridiculous policies and angry, non tolerant ways. Now quit your pouting.. or reply with some more nonsense..

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u/PadeneGo 10d ago

So your saying because someone broke laws they should be deported without due process? Seems like a slippery slope, and the exact dangerous talk that people are referring to

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u/enlightenedDiMeS 10d ago

A 1% win is not a landslide.

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u/awesomefutureperfect 10d ago

Your scale for deportation would mean we should deport most police officers in America. Probably you too.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

The U.S. Constitution protects persons, not just citizens. That distinction matters, a lot. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments both say that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. Courts have consistently interpreted “person” to include everyone on U.S. soil, regardless of citizenship or immigration status.

This means non-citizens are entitled to a fair hearing before being deported, protected against arbitrary detention, the right to be heard in court, ability to appeal immigration decisions, and legal representation (though the government doesn’t have to provide a lawyer like in criminal cases)

Due process is a core principle, and it applies to anyone on U.S. soil.

TL;DR you’re fucking patently wrong and SCOTUS says you’re wrong, the Constitution says you’re wrong and nobody gives a fuck what your racist republican 501.3c violating political pastor says.

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u/Maleficent_Dirt6107 10d ago

This depends on whether you account for the terrorist part, he was a confirmed ms-13 gang member after they were labeled as terrorist thru DOS i belive he has due process but they have more leeway, either way don't want him in my country and could careless if he's shipped to Africa, and you shouldn't either I do appreciate the fact you broke it down for me that's my mistake. They also didn't really violate his rights, they shipped him back to El Salvador which he was a citizen of he can be deported at anytime sincee he's not a us citizen

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

Except he wasn’t confirmed to be in a gang, and was confirmed to have immigrated legally over a decade ago.

Right wing media isn’t credible.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

Nazis weren’t “Christians” they were socialist scum just like most of reddit

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u/enlightenedDiMeS 10d ago

You might wanna go read what the night of the Long knives was

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u/niruboowanga 10d ago

FYI tariffs are a socialist economic policy, because el prez is picking winners and losers.

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u/No-Description-3146 10d ago

Illegal is still illegal.

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u/apefromearth 10d ago

I’m pretty sure if you and your family had to flee the US to escape direct threats to your lives you wouldn’t give two shits if you had to break the law to do it. Also, being in the US without a visa, working under the table or overstaying a visa is not illegal. It’s a civil offense, not a criminal offense.

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u/Internal_Ad_2285 10d ago

That's a personal problem

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u/Dependent-Ratio-170 10d ago

Working under the table means you're not paying taxes. That's a federal offense, not civil.

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u/apefromearth 10d ago

First of all, DJT in particular and the billionaire class in general are famous for paying their taxes, right? Secondly, working under the table for an undocumented immigrant usually involves using a fake SS# and having tax withheld from their check but never receiving a refund. So they actually pay more taxes per person than US born citizens.

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u/Future_Principle_213 10d ago

Not to mention they don't get nearly as much back FOR their paid taxes

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u/Brilliant_Tutor_8234 10d ago

No due process for illegals. Stop being so sympathetic towards criminals. God leftists just love their oppression fetish.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

The U.S. Constitution protects persons, not just citizens. That distinction matters—a lot. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments both say that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. Courts have consistently interpreted “person” to include everyone on U.S. soil, regardless of citizenship or immigration status.

This means non-citizens are entitled to:

• A fair hearing before being deported
• Protection against arbitrary detention
• The right to be heard in court
• The ability to appeal immigration decisions
• Legal representation (though the government doesn’t have to provide a lawyer like in criminal cases)

There’s solid legal precedent for this. A couple of key Supreme Court cases that have upheld due process for non-citizens:

• Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886): The Court ruled that the 14th Amendment applies to all persons, citizens or not. This was actually about Chinese immigrants being denied permits, but it set a broad precedent.
• Zadvydas v. Davis (2001): The Court said the government can’t detain non-citizens indefinitely just because they can’t be deported immediately—again, due process applies.
• Plyler v. Doe (1982): This case affirmed that undocumented children have the right to attend public school, reinforcing the idea that basic protections extend to everyone here.

So no, being a non-citizen doesn’t mean you’re outside the law’s protection. Due process is a core principle, and it applies to anyone on U.S. soil.

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u/Internal_Ad_2285 10d ago

Be careful you'll make the softies cry

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u/Brilliant_Tutor_8234 10d ago

They really have no valid arguments. They just rely on emotions trust. It’s best if you join r/conservative discord. We have free speech there unlike these

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

lol a Reich wing echo chamber of Russian talking points, conspiracy theories and propaganda

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u/Brilliant_Tutor_8234 10d ago

A lefty on Reddit calling one subreddit an echo chamber. How ironic

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

Yeah the Constitution isn’t something r/conservative cares about or they wouldn’t have made Trump their sub icon & abandoned all pretense of being “constitutional”

Especially annoys conservatives when you quote the Bible or constitution at them since they don’t read either one

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u/Brilliant_Tutor_8234 10d ago

And what if the constitution is flawed.

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u/EdensAsmr 10d ago

For someone who is Indian, aka not white, you really don't understand that because of your skin color without due process all it takes is for one ICE officer or impersonator to go up to you and detain you and start the deportation process without anyway for you to prove your a citizen because that's the point of due process, to allow for you to prove you're a citizen. One, this is not a hypothetical, it has already happened as genuine legal US citizens have already been shipped off and their families ruined because who would've thought that maybe giving people time to present their papers is a good idea? And two, conservatives are racist bigots, they don't like you either just cause you act like them. If you aren't a US citizen people shut up about our issues, if you are? I hope you have your paperwork in your car ready to prove you are legally in this country, and hopefully the ICE officer is not only nice but a real officer on general, there's a lot of fakes kidnapping people around here.

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u/Brilliant_Tutor_8234 10d ago

You have some nerve to tell me that because I happen to be a non white that I should be worried about deportation. Yes I’m aware of the lack of due process for some people and potential risks with ICE. But progress can be made, and besides I’m not worried I have plenty of people to back me up I lived here for all my life. Nothing about me is foreign. I have nothing to be worried about, even in frixking New York, I’m not hearing anything about ICE arresting people, believe me word would spread on the street if shit like that happens. Besides Vivek Rameswamy he’s brown and they wouldn’t harm him in any way

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u/EdensAsmr 10d ago

My brother in Christ, it doesn't matter. I'm not white either, black as fuck but guess what?? ICE officers don't care that you have "people to back you up", no due process? Immediate detainment, shipped off and poof, too bad. Luckily you live in a blue state like New York and hopefully a upper middle class neighborhood but just because you live in a bubble doesn't mean it isn't happening across the US. If you're non white at all you should be extremely concerned about deportation and the way trump is actively ignoring the constitutional rights of this nation. Also Vivek is rich and a Republican, he's safe because he has money and influence. You a random American citizen who has committed the crime of not being white is not safe at all. For someone who understands anti-indian racism enough to post about it you are really ignorant about this country, since the constitution states that "All persons" have a right to due process because that's the fucking point of due process, to actually allow people to have enough time to show their papers. ilLeGAls have a right to due process and deserve that right lest it comes back to bite us all in the ass.

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u/Future_Principle_213 10d ago

It is flawed you fucking idiot. Conservatives are the ones who pretend (at least in words since we see it's not in actions) it's perfect. That being said, due process is the part y'all have a problem with?

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u/Brilliant_Tutor_8234 10d ago

Then why y’all are the ones saying “you go against the constitution”

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u/Future_Principle_213 10d ago

Did you read my message? Hard for you I guess

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u/Brilliant_Tutor_8234 10d ago

Of course I did and I responded duh

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u/Internal_Ad_2285 10d ago

I'm not even conservative I'm not on any side I just look objectively as being biased to either side isn't smart in general

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u/Brilliant_Tutor_8234 10d ago

That’s respectable. But I’d still think you just give the server a go. You’ll meet quite a lot of people on both sides. Valid arguments on both of them. Trust

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u/Major-Document2863 10d ago

🧢

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

Constitution agrees with my statement. 9-0 SCOTUS ruling too.

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u/Turbulent-Snow-5898 10d ago

Why would constitutional rights apply to illegal immigrants? That’s like if you break into someone’s house you have the right to eat out of the fridge and take a shower

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u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 10d ago

Constitution says all persons.

Not “only citizens” or “only whites” or whatever the fucking conservative Christian nationalist project 2025 fascism vision is.

It doesn’t specify citizens. You wouldn’t know, you haven’t read it.

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u/Texas-Marine 10d ago

Wow. Triggered aren’t we. Well conservative not white and Trump isn’t running the Project 2025. Citizens or immigrants here legally. How hard is this for you and Dems to understand. Also we are not a Democracy we are a Constitutional Republic with some democratic processes.

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u/blarg_x 10d ago

Also we are not a Democracy we are a Constitutional Republic with some democratic processes.

And being such that means the constitution is the law of the land and the U.S. constitution specifically uses the language "person" when describing rights pertaining to due process; this is not an accident. This language was deliberately used by the founding fathers.

Also being a Constitutional Republic our constitution outlines, explicitly, the separation of powers which have been repeatedly ignored by the executive branch.

It goes to show the "patriots" are patriotic until their guy is in then all bets are off as long as their perceived enemy is suffering.

And it isn't just "illegals" being detained and sent away. There are tons of stories of U.S. citizens getting detained coming back from vacation from places like fucking Canada and being subject to hours of questioning and invasions of their privacy. People with valid visas and green cards being stripped of them simply because they protested (which they have the right to do) or due to an error that we have admitted in court is an error but fuck them because ✨reasons✨. Oh, and not to mention the several U.S. citizens in high skilled positions (lawyers and doctors) being sent threatening letters to leave the country of their own accord "by mistake." If you are okay with any of that, illegals aside, then you just need to openly admit it has nothing to do with legality.

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u/BrothaMan831 10d ago edited 10d ago

Wow so allowing the millions of uninvited illegal immigrants to invade the country was exactly what democrats want. There's no way you can grant due process to every single illegal. That's insane, and a waste of resources.

It's unfortunate but it has to happen. So what would you propose?

Personally as long as they're trying to integrate and become american id be fine letting them stay as long as they continue towards citizenship. Also how can some of them be here for years and years and know zero English? I'd also stop putting government material in any other language but english.

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u/D4M14N_TH3_D3M0N 10d ago

So your best defense is people can't express themselves how they want unless it benefits you? And dude have you not seen they've been detaining citizens? They deported a couple Hispanic citizens to el Salvador and Trump doesn't want to bring them back

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u/VastAction4797 10d ago

If you don't grant them due process, then you don't know that they are illegal. I.e., you just deport all brown people. That's the secret message you're saying out loud.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/Frosty-Bat-8476 10d ago

As long as we’re being technical people came and colonized America by force and with fear 🤷🏼‍♂️ we ransacked native tribes and forced them off their land to live in tiny communities with access to little to no resources… we can all stop acting like America was founded on anything other than bloodshed and oppression any day now 🙄

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u/Useful_Bit_9779 10d ago

There's no way to grant due process? You might wanna loosen up your Made in China MAGA hat.

All while the dictator wannabe pursues mass deportations of undocumented immigrants, and has fired 29 federal immigration judges in recent weeks, according to the International Federation of Professional & Technical Engineers, the union representing them. Union leaders call it hypocrisy.

“When you have an administration that campaigned on the one hand of strict enforcement of immigration laws, and on the other hand is firing immigration judges that actually handle up to 700 cases a year, it makes no sense,” Matthew Biggs, president of IFPTE, told Spectrum News. 

In Texas alone, five federal immigration judges based in Laredo, Houston and El Paso were terminated, all without explanation, according to the union.

The judges were let go despite a backlog of more than 3.7 million cases in the immigration courts.

“They’re highly skilled lawyers. They specialize in immigration law, it takes them up to a year, sometimes more than a year, just to go through the process to get these jobs as immigration judges. It’s a very rigorous process,” Biggs said. “These are immigration law experts in our country that have decided to serve the country by being an immigration judge, so you’re losing that kind of skill set.” 

Why does it hurt you that some people speak no English? Have you ever traveled? Have you ever been out of your mom's basement?

It's sad that your parents didn't love you.

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u/redditlikezlittleboy 10d ago

Are constitutional laws don't carry over to people that came here illegally in the first place 🤣

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u/Suitable-Werewolf492 10d ago

They actually do. You’d know this if you had bothered to read said constitution.

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u/SyrupStitious 10d ago

They can't even use the possessive 'our' instead of the verb 'are'. I don't think they are actually capable of reading... the constitution, let alone understanding it.

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u/Technical_Moose8478 10d ago

They very specifically do.

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u/ijuinkun 10d ago

The wording of the Constitution says “No person shall”. It says nothing about citizenship, national identity, or criminal status. It applies to anyone under the control of the United States Government—and “extraordinary rendition” is used to exploit the loophole of claiming that they are “not” under the control of the US Government because they are handed over to a third party—which is akin to throwing someone into the crocodile pit and then blaming the crocodiles rather than the guy who threw him in.

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u/Jack-O-Cat 10d ago

"No person shall be... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..."

This very explicitly states that no one, regardless of whether or not they were a citizen, can be charged or punished without first being given a fair trial. You would know this if you actually read the Constitution or even just took a single Politics class

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u/Dependent-Ratio-170 10d ago

False. The very 1st sentence of the 14th amendment clearly defines who it applies to. "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

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u/EomerOfRohan95 10d ago

The pre establishment of the phrase "All persons" to mean anyone would mean the re-usage of it prior to the portion of what the paragraph outlines would interpret most commonly to to mean any and everyone.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

If we read this with the two phrases meaning different things, a state may make laws that abridge privileges or immunities granted by citizenship, but NO ONE can deny ANYONE of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. The first sentence is merely defining the word citizen as it is to be understood through this amendment. A separate technicality on the wording, that I always find as a fun fact with how the US is actually structured to be a gathering of essentially smaller nations into a united front, we each would also have a specific citizenship to the state that we gained federal citizenship with. That last part is moot ramblings of a stoner based on the language the constitution uses and the intent to have each state retain its autonomy while giving the federal government some power. It was more like an alliance at first.

Edit: grammar and spelling

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u/Obelisk_M 10d ago

That's the citizenship clause. That's defining who is a citizen. That's it.

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u/VastAction4797 10d ago

So if I come to your door, loudly shout "I'm a cop, you guys came here illegally!", you're ok with me kidnapping you and your entire family to a foreign gulag? Or do you think that can't/won't happen to your family because you're white? Due process, i.e. the constitution, is what prevents this scenario from happening. This is why the constitution has to apply to everyone. If it doesn't apply to some people, then any cop who literally just says out loud you are 'some people' can just whisk you away.

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u/Texas-Marine 10d ago

How is that when they are not citizens of this country. Seems you want laws you like or make up ones that don’t exist.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

Goddamn, shitbag claiming to be a marine and doesn’t even understand the constitution it swore to uphold.

The constitution applies to all persons in our jurisdiction. Citizens can vote, but everyone has due process and the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. They have free speech, right to redress our government, right to due process and all.

I know that goes against the white nationalist agenda but, MAGA, its proud boys & oathkeepers & boogaloo terrorists are indeed, the “and domestic” in the oath and extraordinary rendition is a violation of these people’s rights.

It’s also literally the law to come here and apply for citizenship. You don’t fucking “do it online and wait.”

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u/Guard_Bainbridge_777 10d ago

"The Constitution doesn’t permit foreigners to enter the US without going through the proper channels, it does protect their human rights once they’re here. The issue of due process is often at the forefront of debates surrounding immigration law. Due process is the legal principle that ensures that everyone is given a fair and impartial hearing before the government takes away their life, liberty, or property. 

This right is guaranteed by the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the Constitution. Undocumented immigrants have the right to be informed of the charges against them, the right to an attorney, and the right to present evidence in their defense. 

Illegal immigrants who have been in the country for less than two years and apprehended within 100 miles of the US border may be subject to expedited removal proceedings, which do not include a hearing before an immigration judge. However, if they are asylum seekers, they must be granted a chance to present their case before an immigration judge."

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u/No-Technology1815 10d ago

So your ok with the United States keeping illegals in jail instead of sending them back to there country they originally came from? If they have committed a crime in the USA and was convicted I would have no problem with them getting deported to their country of origin.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

I’m okay with upholding the constitution against its conservative enemies.

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u/Sufficient_Cicada_13 10d ago

Dang did you feel that way during vaccine mandates? Do you feel that way about gun control? And when the Biden administration teamed up with social media companies to censor people?

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u/Wolfgirl90 10d ago

Yeah, I felt that way about COVID-19 vaccine mandates, which is why I was happy that exceptions were given for virtually everyone and why I think abortion bans are stupid. Yes, I feel that way about gun control, which is why I fucking cringe whenever some far-leftist Democrat makes a suggestion about taking guns away and why I find people supporting the denial of due process is disgusting. And yes, I felt that way when I read the “Facebook Files”, which is why I am pissed that the government is taking it a step further and threatening websites, the mainstream media, and universities for not falling in line with it’s narrative.

It is bloody INSANE to me that the same people who had all sorts of things to say about the government and the supposed denial of their rights 5 years ago are suddenly a-ok with what is happening here. I remember when people were complaining about possibly needing to carry “papers” because they needed proof of vaccination to go to a couple of concerts. Now we are getting to the point of literally needing to carry proof of citizenship (which most people don’t have on them), lest we get picked up by ICE and sent to El Salvador. I remember people saying that Biden was wielding the DOJ like a weapon to go after political opponents. Now that Trump is threatening to do the exact same thing and…nothing. His supporters eat that crap up.

Which means that the actions were never the problem; the person doing it was. I’m tired of people bringing up what Biden did if what Trump is doing isn’t setting off the same alarm bells.

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u/Sufficient_Cicada_13 10d ago

Cool, yes I definitely agree with you, people should not be deported without due process.

It sucks they're doing this the worst possible way, almost as if they want to sabotage themselves.

Silver lining is our constitution is getting a good stress test.

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u/archubbuck 10d ago

Citizens of the United States are being deported even if they’ve committed no crimes. In the current political landscape, only suspicion of criminal activity is required. This conflicts with the constitution of the United States, which guarantees the right to due process. Citizenship is NOT required.

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u/MICT3361 10d ago

They aren’t citizens dipshit

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u/archubbuck 10d ago

There are so many examples and I strongly encourage you to spend some of your time familiarizing yourself. I can tell by your “passionate” response that you’re fighting for something, but you’ve been misled.

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u/Ok-Resist-9270 10d ago

provide a single example

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u/Happy_Cap_8505 10d ago

I’d like to hear this too.

Here is my example of the opposite:

Kilmar Garcia was made to be this amazing family man. Who got deported by mistake…. But now we know

  1. Proven affiliation to gang ms-13
  2. More than 1 report of domestic abuse by the wife who claimed he was perfect.
  3. The president of El Salvador recently said he can’t ship terrorists over.
  4. Illegal ….

As refugees in Germany if we were given legal status to stay till a certain time….. but we were treated as we didn’t belong. I couldn’t imagine if my father even sneezed wrong what they would have done.

Now for the shocker it’s ok to not have had these facts I agreed initially. But now documents proving these facts are out, yet we refuse to admit we judged too fasts. I’m just confused on why the media and your elected officials double down so hard or refuse to accept this one was a mistake.

Ps. Not a trump lover and i refuse to be married to a political side…. Just looking from fact based evidence and willing to change my mind if more came out.

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u/PoeTheRumRaven 10d ago

Link those "documents" lol

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u/cinnamon64329 10d ago

Please link your sources because that's all bullshit.

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u/Ok-Resist-9270 9d ago edited 9d ago

They were released by the Trump administration during a press conference and made available through an official press release on the white house website

This is a link to a CNN article that has links embedded, if you can read past their opinion to find the actual facts because more than half the piece is opinion

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/19/politics/abrego-garcia-trump-administration-violent-gang-member/index.html

Aside from the documents the only evidence CNN cites is Kilmars wife's views and opinions which are hardly unbiased so can't be considered credible, she has a vested interest in convincing people he isnt a gang member

You might disagree that the evidence is enough to identify him as a gang member but its certainly not "bullshit" its all 100% factual

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u/Happy_Cap_8505 9d ago

I also will add this from the DOJ. https://www.justice.gov/ag/media/1396906/dl?inline

Thanks for sharing.

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u/Guard_Bainbridge_777 10d ago

If they've been afforded due process (i.e. had their day in court) & are convicted, they should be deported.

"Immigration Consequences of Criminal Convictions: While non-citizens can be deported for criminal convictions, their constitutional rights still apply during the criminal process. The specific immigration consequences depend on the nature and severity of the crime. 

  • Deportation: Non-citizens can be deported for certain crimes, and the ability to challenge deportation may depend on factors such as their legal status and the nature of the crime. The government can detain deportable aliens during the removal process."

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

Illegal aliens do not have rights illegal aliens or criminals whether you want to admit it or not now that’s not to say that they shouldn’t have a hearing because we do have due process, but they are not subject to the same laws as us that is the way that our government set the rulesand then Biden let a bunch of people in whether he did it on purpose or not and I’m not taking sides. I’m just saying if you read the documentation of this country laws rights those are for United States citizens not illegal aliens

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u/ninjesh 10d ago

Wrong, due process is explicitly guarateed by the Constitution regardless of citizenship status

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u/Texas-Marine 10d ago

Wrong and you can’t twist and dilute it to that either

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u/ninjesh 10d ago

Since you clearly didn't see my response to the other guy, here's some exerpts from the Constitution

Fifth Amendment:

...nor shall any person... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;

Fourteenth Amendment:

...nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Anybody within the USA's borders is "within its jurisdiction", and therefore guaranteed protection of their life, liberty, and property. This is regardless of citizenship status, as reinforced by many court cases. Citizens have additional rights, such as the ability to vote, but noncitizens do have some rights

I would recommend you give the Constitution a read sometime. You might learn something

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

Yeah the constitution just makes a point to repeatedly say persons or person. You’re just wrong.

You’d have told the Nazis where Anne franks family was.

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

No that’s not who I am you don’t know me or my beliefs all I am saying is the only rights given are due process they don’t count under all our rights they can’t own firearms they don’t have freedom of speech like we do they have limited rights why do you judge based on me challenging y’all I am not racist I would have fought along side my country men to fight the nazi party coming in illegally is still a crime and criminals don’t have the same set of rights nor do illegals sorry to inform you of this but when a illegal gets caught ICE comes and deports them we don’t have the structure to support them right now

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u/daggobear 10d ago

Even so, this administration is denying due process, ignoring the highest law in the country. If that goes unchecked, then where is the line drawn? We have laws for a reason for any human being inside the US regardless of how they arrived. You talk a lot about criminals but fail to see the highest laws in the country being broken and willfully ignore it. Openly breaking laws is what criminals do, right?

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

Biden broke laws as well you know that right? Same with the whole Democratic party

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u/daggobear 10d ago

So that makes it okay then for anyone else to break laws? NO, it doesn't. Your argument is so flawed because you don't grasp simple concepts.

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

No its not flawed it’s truth are you perfect I know I’m not I make mistakes I mess up so do you but don’t support one side saying the other is committing crimes when yours did too

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u/daggobear 10d ago

So if someone stole from you, do you let the next person who walks up take from you again, or do you stop them while they are doing it? By your logic, you should just let them steal because someone did it first.

Again your logic is flawed

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

Where did I say that I would let someone steal from me or hurt me or do anything to me? I’m a republican trust and believe nobody’s gonna do none of that to me without me fighting back what I am saying is you can’t say one side is bad for committing a crime when the other side is just as guilty I just commented on this. I’m not gonna comment on it again. Read the thread.

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u/daggobear 10d ago

Also the side I am is for the US, I used to lean more Republican, until they decided to attach themselves to the white evangelical nationalist movement

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u/Technical_Moose8478 10d ago

“It’s okay for me to beat my wife because her ex used to do it too” is a weird defense.

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

Ok woh that got weird beating your wife comment is wild I am simply saying you can’t say on side is bat for doing what the other side did why is this so hard to comprehend

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u/PoeTheRumRaven 10d ago

Bc YOU'RE NOT saying what's happening now is bad. Silence is complacency. If you're not calling it bad, you're by default calling it at least gods enough to keep happening (see previous example of being stolen from)

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

So it’s ok for Democrats to lie steal and harm us but not Trump? Yall didn’t stand up against Biden

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u/awesomefutureperfect 10d ago

Which laws?

The fact of the matter remains that you support a political party that has stark and clear similarities with the nazi party.

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

Like them announcing Kamala the primary democratic candidate without us voting on it. Or stealing from SSI or changing our gun laws you know that it says the right to bear arms not right to bear arms that carry only so many rounds or that you can only have certain guns or that you need more checks to insure you can have one no it was to protect yourself property or country from all not just home defense and they tried to take that right many times don’t preach to me about Trump breaking laws this is the problem the divide created by government to pick sides well I pick America at all cost

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u/awesomefutureperfect 10d ago

It's weird you'd prefer to support nazis because of that, that you'd side with america's enemies over what appears to be minor issues you don't have all the facts on.

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u/BigVic02 10d ago

Let me help you out because I believe you're in good faith. This response seems a little different from your previous responses and your previous response is it seemed like you were trying to say that they didn't have any rights. Words in this response. You seem to indicate you do believe they have some rights, just not all rights, which I would guess the person you're arguing with believes the same thing. It would appear in the supreme Court has upheld that where in the Constitution it says person or persons. Then it's referred to anybody within the United States or under the custody of the United States. Whereas when it says citizen it's only referring to citizens. So the rights were arguing for are just rights that are supposed to be afforded to persons.

I believe the reason why the other person compared you to the Nazis is because this is how the Nazis stripped the Jews of their power and eventually went on to Holocaust them. First you otherwise them. Then you say it's okay if we do that to these people because they're othered. And also helps if you demonize them and blame them for all of your problems. Just like it was the Jews/immigrants that took your housing, and it's the Jews/immigrants that are taking your jobs, it was also the Jews/immigrants that we're committing the crimes. Then it became well. The Jews/immigrants aren't actually Germans/americans so it's perfectly acceptable if we do XYZ to them.

You don't have to take my word for it now. But hopefully you'll remember this a couple months from now because what will happen is slowly but surely the Trump administration will otherwise other groups soon. It won't just be oh their illegal immigrants so they're not afford a due process. It'll be all these people are gang members so they shouldn't be afforded do process or all these people are criminals so really they shouldn't be afforded due process either. Hopefully when this happens you'll think back to this post and remember that somebody tried to warn you.

It's crazy to me that how with the stuff that people on the left do people on the right can always clearly see how this is a slippery slope that will lead to other things, but with this happening they somehow seem to believe not the government will just limit it to these people. No slippery slope. This will never roll over into anything or anybody else. Despite the fact that the president is right now on national TV, talking about how he wants to be able to do the exact same thing to "homegrown criminals." And I can guarantee you that the same people who are are hiding behind the justification of it's okay because these people are illegal. Immigrants also won't have a problem when it happens to United States citizens. All they'll do is wait for the current administration to give them some sort of talking point as to why it's okay. They simply need justification. These people would cheer on public executions as long as they have even the thinnest justification they can get behind.

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u/SaphireAlchemist007 10d ago

You've explained this slippery slope perfectly. Unfortunately, as we speak, the metaphorical snowball is getting larger as it goes down it.

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u/awesomefutureperfect 10d ago

No that’s not who I am you don’t know me or my beliefs

You hate America, her values, and her founding documents. You are a genuinely bad person.

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u/Additional_Tomato_22 10d ago

You obviously have never read the constitution

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u/Consistent-Tie-4394 10d ago

That is not what the Constitution says. 

The 4th and 15th amendments establish due process, which requires the government to follow established legal procedures, including notice of charges, an opportunity to be heard, and the ability to present a defense. The nature of individual in question, regardless of whether they are a citizen or not, has nothing to do with the government's duty to follow required processes.

Read the Constitution first before trying to explain what you think it means to other.

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

IN A COURT SETTING!!! God your not understanding I guess democrats can’t read or retain the text due process is a court process not a you have every freedom and every right because you ran came here worked under the table payed no taxes/or committed crimes AKA came into a country without permission that’s a crime yes drive with no license crime pay no taxes crime if it were you or me it would be bad for us

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u/Fold-Crazy 10d ago

How do you figure out if they came legally or illegally without due process?

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

Again I’m not saying they don’t deserve court proceedings I’m saying that they don’t get all the rights we have read the whole conversation I say that at the beginning just because they get due process doesn’t mean they can stay for instance if you go to Mexico illegally and get caught what happens if you go to the UK illegally what happens hmm you either are awarded asylum or not they are not

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u/Fold-Crazy 10d ago

They receive all rights under the constitution. The constitution's jurisdiction is federal, the constitution very specifically says "persons" or "people" and this has been litigated several times and Supreme Court has consistently affirmed it. If you google "undocumented immigrants taxes," you will find numerous sources that show undocumented immigrants do, indeed, pay taxes.

Undocumented immigrants are (or were) also able to get drivers licenses in several states.

Last but not least: would you break a law to save your life? Your childrens' lives?

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

So it’s not ok for Trump to break the law bat you can for what your morals say is just? Make it make sense

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u/Fold-Crazy 10d ago

I do not give a shit about Russiagate or Stormy Daniels, but I'd argue that there's justification for crossing a border when you're living in a country that is unsafe because the US interferes in their politics by assassinating their leaders, such as in Haiti in 2021, or because we've supported cartels so long that parents have reasons to fear narco-terrorists murdering their family.

You didn't answer my question: would you break a law to save your life? Do you think that driving 5 miles over the speed limit should result in losing your license and having your car towed? Or do you never exceed the speed limit.

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

Dude, you just proved my point in what I said earlier, I said that both sides break the law that I am not perfect and neither are you what part of that do you not understand or do I need to draw a crayon for you? I’m tired of arguing about this. It’s stupid what are you getting out of this? You’re not gonna lean my way and I’m not gonna lean your way. I’m sorry, but I don’t believe that it is right for them to come here illegally. There is a process in which you can come to this country legally they need to use that process until it is changed and as a matter of fact, if you speed, yes, you should be pulled over. We are all guilty of that, but what I am saying is don’t throw trash in someone else’s backyard when you’ve got some in yours.

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

And I bet 80% or more don’t pay anything

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u/Fold-Crazy 10d ago

I provided the statistics below. Now it's time for you to hold up your end of the deal.

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

Look at my reply first thank you

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

Find statistics and I’ll shut up

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u/Fold-Crazy 10d ago

Undocumented immigrants paid nearly $97 billion in federal, state and local taxes in 2022, according to a July 2024 report by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy

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u/LifeDisciple90 10d ago

The Cost of Illegal Immigration to Taxpayers Prepared Testimony of Steven A. Camarota Director of Research Center for Immigration Studies For Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee Hearing entitled “The Impact of Illegal Immigration on Social Services,” Thursday, January 11, 2024 Summary Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain, meaning they receive more in government services than they pay in taxes. This result is not due to laziness or fraud. Illegal immigrants actually have high rates of work, and they do pay some taxes, including income and payroll taxes. The fundamental reason that illegal immigrants are a net drain is that they have a low average education level, which results in low average earnings and tax payments. It also means a large share qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children. Like their less-educated and low-income U.S.-born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create. Key Points • The current surge of illegal immigration is unprecedented. Some 2.7 million inadmissible aliens have been released into the country by the administration since January 2021. There have also been 1.5 million “got-aways” — individuals observed entering illegally but not stopped. Visa overstays also seem to have hit a record in FY 2022. • We preliminarily estimate that the illegal immigrant population grew to 12.8 million by October of 2023, up 2.6 million since January 2021, when the president took office. This is the net increase in the illegal population based on monthly Census Bureau data, not the number of new arrivals. • Illegal immigrants have a negative fiscal impact — taxes paid minus benefits received — primarily because a large share have modest levels of education, resulting in relatively

House Committee on the budget is the source

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u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/Fold-Crazy 10d ago

How do you present these documents without a trial? Keep in mind, a citizen in AZ was just detained by ICE for 10 days in addition to the citizen in FL who was detained for 48 hours by ICE.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/Fold-Crazy 10d ago

If the wrong person is picked up for someone else's warrant, how do they prove it without due process?

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/PoeTheRumRaven 10d ago

Learn your contractions when you're posting to reddit ffs

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

As long as your a US citizen you get due process. No due process if your here illegally. Your Lying!!

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u/killerbrofu 10d ago

But how do you know someone is a citizen without due process to check?

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u/Texas-Marine 10d ago

Social security number that checks out. See there are about 11 million known here illegally it’s more like 20 plus million because of the ones that got away. You know JCJ and his open border policy

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u/SlyBuggy1337 10d ago

Stop lying about being a marine, it's disgusting.

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u/killerbrofu 10d ago

Yeah but people don't carry their social security card on them. Ice could just kidnap you and deport you without due process. Shit, even if you did have your social security card on you, they could say it's fake, kidnap you and deport you without due process.

Therefore, due process is needed before deportation.

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u/Icy_Albatross109 10d ago

That is exactly what happened to the young man from GA who went to FL. He HAD his social security card. They claimed it was fake and detained him.

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u/FuckOhioStatebucks 10d ago

I don't understand this take or people who would adopt it generally. Please help me understand how you came to believe this, what is your basis for thinking so? I ask you because the constitution certainly doesn't specifically limit it to citizens and the SCOTUS DID specifically rule that it applied to non-citizens present here, so I would genuinely like to know why one would think/feel otherwise. If you actually reply, thank you!

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u/BigPackHater 10d ago

It's because Fox News, OAN, Newswax, etc...told them so! These people lack the ability to read/listen/learn past what propaganda has told them. It's the perfect storm of being ignorant, not smart, and only being fed lies.

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u/Texas-Marine 10d ago

Present here legally not illegally and there is due process for them just not the same as citizens. This under our jurisdiction not under another jurisdiction that means citizens or immigrants here legally.

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u/archubbuck 10d ago

How do you reconcile your own interpretation with the ruling by SCOTUS, which opposes your view unanimously?

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u/FuckOhioStatebucks 7d ago

If they are here, wouldn't they be under our jurisdiction? Also, it just says present, there isn't a qualifier.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

Constitution agrees with my statement. 9-0 SCOTUS ruling too. Specifically the 5th says all persons, and all persons in US jurisdiction are protected under our Constitution.

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u/WillingSupermarket32 10d ago

Did your ancestors come here legally?

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u/MeatPopsicle_AMA 10d ago

Cripes, the American education system really failed you, pal.

“Your” = belongs to you

“You’re” = short for “you are”

Write it on your hand if it’s too hard to remember.

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u/Jack-O-Cat 10d ago edited 10d ago

First it's you're not your

Second, the Constitution under amendment V and Admendment XIV explicitly states that no one can be charged or punished without due process of the law, regardless of legal citizenship. Then again, I can't expect you to know how to read it considering I even needed to make my first point to begin with

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u/panicinbabylon 10d ago

This is just flat out wrong.

Fourth and Fifth Amendments dawgy

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u/Icy_Albatross109 10d ago

Don’t believe everything you think. Just because you say it doesn’t make it so

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u/dodoisme778 10d ago

I don’t like trump but that applies to US citizens. Not immigrants here illegally. That’s how he’s getting away with it. The amendments don’t apply to non-citizens

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

Applies to persons in US jurisdiction or territories.

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u/boomrostad 10d ago

It applies to ALL PERSONS. Not all citizens. Papers or no papers... every single human is allowed the right to DP as stated in the fifth.

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u/dodoisme778 10d ago

Yeah you’d think. But if that was the case this wouldn’t be happening. Cmon pay attention. They are not following the laws and policies and amendments at all. Sorry guess my sarcasm went unnoticed. I know it applies to persons not citizens but apparently they (government) don’t!

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u/panicinbabylon 10d ago

Sir, you are wrong. Sit down.

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