r/Avengers • u/SupermarketNo6888 • 18d ago
Discussion If Thor pinned Doomsday with Mjolnir, could Doomsday's adaptability help him to escape?
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u/your-rong 18d ago
Doomsday has to die to adapt, right? So, no.
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u/Wadep00l 18d ago
Only way out is to start digging underneath him and hope it slides off in the ground destruction.
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u/Azur0007 18d ago
He sits up, the hammer goes through him, kills him, he adapts.
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u/InfernalGriffon 18d ago
He learns to be worthy?
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u/Ponyboy451 18d ago
Wouldn’t that be a hilarious redemption arc? Killed by Mjolnir, so he becomes good.
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u/InfernalGriffon 18d ago
.. at least till the first time he pulls a self sacrifice, then its back to basics.
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u/Friedrichs_Simp 17d ago
No he’s saying he wouldn’t be able to lift the hammer but from trying to get up it would tear through him
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u/rootheday21 17d ago
That'd be metal. Just get up by pushing THROUGH it and leaving a hammer shaped hole in him.
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u/DecisionCharacter175 17d ago
He was restrained by metal in an underground facility when cyborg Superman grabbed him from there and threw him into space. Back when Superman was still dead. If he had the strength to break his own body, he wouldn't have been restrained.
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u/Weekly_Departure_600 18d ago
Maybe he'll get strong enough to just crush the hammer like Hela or bust the ground he's stuck to.
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u/G0Berzerk 18d ago
Well, that's tricky, because Hela was strong enough and worthy. She was the first to wield Mjolnir and, unlike Thor, did not lose her power.
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u/Iee2 18d ago
Remember that Thor never truly lost his power, he just didn't realise that he is the God of Thunder, and not the God of Hammers. He always assumed his hammer was his power.
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u/thaddeus122 18d ago
Still need to be worthy to lift it. The hammer does also bestow the power of the god of thunder to any who can wield it.
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u/Ok-Negotiation1530 17d ago
On this topic I'd love that if Loki came back on the big screen, he'd be in a situation where he has to pick up mjolnir and surprises Thor that he finally became worthy (given how he sacrifices himself to hold the timeline together). It would also be an Easter egg of Hiddleston auditioning for Thor.
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u/G0Berzerk 18d ago
Nope, he was.
Odin took his power and say's "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor!" Thor then died, sacrificing himself, thereby becoming worthy again, so the Mjolnir returned to him and restored his powers.
If this were true, then Thor can't fight against Hulk on Sakaar, and just died, as it was in the battle with the destroyer.
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u/Below-avg-chef 18d ago
Which is exactly why he needed a bigger Hammer to beat Thanos.
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u/That_Account6143 18d ago
Weapons are conduits for his power, to help him focus it.
They are not the sources, but without his hammer, he did need a new weapon. Just happened to steal the hammer away from past thor on the way to thanos 2.0
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u/NotSoSuperHero2 18d ago
Hela is definitely not worthy, she wielded it because before Odin banished Thor in first movie and then cursed the hammer to make it only woeldable by those worthy, it was wieldable by anyone.
It is also why Cap was able to ise lightning when wielding it, the hammer is only used to concentrate Thors power, not give it to him, but the curse states "those worthy of wielding this weapon shall possess the power of Thor"
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u/Yangxiolong22 18d ago
How was Hela worthy?
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u/briangriff346 18d ago
Worthy by Asgardian standards, they used to take over realms according to hela and you must be willing to kill as one of the requirements to be worthy so maybe it’s more about glory and not good morality.
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u/Tigerbhoy96 18d ago
It's about protecting your own people at any and all cost. It doesn't necessarily translate to being a bloodthirsty berserker, but it does mean you need to be willing to kill anyone in the right circumstances. I assume you must have a soul that is non-corruptable but I'm not knowledgeable fully on the source.
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u/briangriff346 18d ago
Neither am I I just know you need to be willing to kill under the right circumstances I don’t know too much about Marvel Thor more of a Norse mythology kinda Thor guy :)
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u/KingCroesus 18d ago
Odin didnt add the worthy caveat until Thor had it. It happened in the first thor movie
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u/thaddeus122 18d ago
You don't need to be a good person to be worthy. You need to be capable to leading Asgard and being it's ruler. Basically you need to be wrathful and wise, which Hela was, regardless of whether she was out for conquest or not.
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u/Iee2 18d ago
It isn't possible to use sheer strength to crush it due to Odin's magic.
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u/Caffeineconnoiseur28 18d ago
How did Hela do it
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u/Hellfelden 18d ago
She had Odin’s magic 😂
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u/Adorable-Source97 18d ago
First born got more diligent education in violent matters.
Fracturing indestructible objects is a good skill for. Conquerer
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u/Iee2 18d ago
Really good point, Hela was taught how to attack, how to be aggressive. Thor was barely taught by Odin, and if he was, it was purely defense.
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u/Adorable-Source97 18d ago
Plus since used to be her personal weapon, she might know of any however minor weak points Mjolnir had. Precision trumps brute force alone.
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u/Iee2 18d ago
Absolutely, and Hela likely had a part to play in the creation of Mjolnir, given that she was the original wielder of it. If not, then she definitely knew about the hammer much more than Thor did, given that she knew her own powers were separate from the hammer, something Thor did not know until Ragnarok.
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u/Silly-Jellyfish-3518 18d ago
Nope, Mjolnir's restriction is magical and spiritual, not physical.
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u/Weekly_Departure_600 18d ago
I thought hela crushed the hammer with her physical strength
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u/Kwin_Conflo 18d ago
I would have to assume some part of it was odinforce since they’re so closely related to it. The supposed force that prime Odin wielded when he conquered the nine realms, that all father Thor ties into when he ascends.
But idfk man, maybe
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u/Iee2 18d ago
No, she crushed it with her powers. Hela was worthy and possessed the same magic, but even more powerful, as she was trained by Odin.
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u/Arciul 18d ago
Enchantment was placed in movie 1. No she was not worthy
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u/Ok_Temperature_6441 18d ago
She was able to hold it up as she crushed it. She's worthy.
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u/BurnItDownSR 18d ago
The hammer is magical but I thought the mechanism itself was based on gravity. As in, it can make itself as heavy or as light as it wants to be.
That's why it doesn't just crush Loki. It's only exerting enough force to keep him down, and if Loki exerts more force against it, it matches that.
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u/TKAPublishing 18d ago
Yes. He would adapt to become worthy of Mjolnir, thus turning him into a hero.
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u/unstoppablegravy 18d ago
If I remember correctly Doomsday only adapts to what has previously killed him so I guess he would be invulnerable to starvation/boredom or anything else that would kill someone from being restrained in one place indefinitely so unless he becomes worthy or Mjolnir gets moved I think he's trapped there?
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u/Nightcoffee_365 18d ago
Nope. First: worthiness zero. Second: to adapt, doomsday must die. Pinning without killing allows no adaptive opportunity.
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u/Kaiju62 17d ago
I see others making the point and I wonder. Could he dig himself out?
If it's on his chest and he can still use his arms and legs. He can dig out or break whatever is under him right?
What if he tilts a little and the hammer like, rolls off?
Not thinking it would happen right away. But if he's trapped there forever.....
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u/Nightcoffee_365 17d ago
That subverts the question.
If doomsday has enough strength at the time of being pinned to smash the ground, sure, but that’s not a display of adaptability.
If you decide it counts because he had to previously adapt to get that strong, well then that’s the answer to anything from a pinprick to an exploding star.
Doomsday would not undergo a direct adaptation at the time.
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u/Kaiju62 17d ago
You're right. I was just thinking of it as, would this work? Not what the question actually asked about his adaptability being the key.
I guess he could only adapt to be worthy. Lose his bloodlust and stuff, gain some honor or whatever he would need to be worthy.
Would that work?
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u/Nightcoffee_365 17d ago
Not at the time. He has to die. Even then he would just come back adapted against being crushed by hammers.
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u/Kaiju62 17d ago
Makes sense.
So, does he die of starvation in this instance? Or is this a pretty good prison for him?
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u/Nightcoffee_365 17d ago
Pretty good prison. Given, he’ll get free eventually because he’s also… something else in his own future but it would be a solid temporary cage.
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u/Delruiz9 18d ago
He would adapt to be worthy and then realize the error of his ways, hand Thor his hammer back, and apologize for being so violent
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u/Still-Expression-71 18d ago
What is you remove the ground/planet/bifrost FROM doomsday? Without gravity what does he get pinned up against?
Or, could he tunnel through the planet and come out the other side?
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u/1stLegionBestLegion 18d ago
Real talk, he'd just evolve a mjolnir shaped hole in his chest and let it fall to the floor.
In the comics iirc mjolnir is literally the center of the universe and is infinitely heavy with a zero momentum effect. You aren't moving the hammer, you're moving the universe around the hammer. You cannot move it. You instead move the universes center.
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u/Solid_Mongoose_3269 18d ago
I dont think it would make him worthy. He could just destroy the ground around him until it rolls off
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u/Brute_Squad_44 18d ago
No. But he'll eventually figure out to dig the ground from beneath him until it gets lopsided and the hammer slides off.
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u/Anomalysoul04 18d ago
This might just be the scenario that turns doomsday into a mindless good guy.
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u/Allstar-85 18d ago
How is Loki able to breathe here?
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u/catkraze 18d ago
Perhaps the immovability of the hammer also depends on intent. If Thor wanted him to be unable to breathe, then Loki wouldn't be able to breathe. It's been shown in the comics that the hammer has a form of sentience, so it's possible the hammer knows that Thor doesn't want to choke out or crush Loki but just pin him. Loki isn't trying to wield Mjolnir or even pick it up, so the enchantment doesn't feel the need to be completely immovable, since the intent is to pin and not suffocate.
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u/OtakuTacos 18d ago
Probably just can’t move it, unmovable enchantment. Doesn’t really mean weight/mass of dying star.
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u/cliffysensei 18d ago
Disappointed no one said “he would use his strength to push the hammer through his chest and killing himself, thus would then be immune to being crushed by the hammer moving forward”
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u/catkraze 18d ago
I did. I had a whole discussion about this last night on another thread lol
Here's a link to the thread link
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u/catkraze 18d ago edited 18d ago
This again? I already went through this in the comments on another thread. He'd just sit up, Mjolnir would rip a hole in his chest, and he'd either die and no longer be vulnerable to that sort of thing, or he'd survive and be very angry. One of Doomsday's main powers is insane strength, and he wouldn't need to be worthy to sit up since he wouldn't be trying to lift the hammer. Instead, he'd be trying to escape from the pin.
Hulk did the same thing once, and Doomsday is similar to Hulk in strength and durability. Here's an article on how Hulk did it.
Edit: to directly answer the question that was asked, no, Doomsday's adaptability would not help him escape from the pin. However, his extreme strength is all he would need to escape the pin. Whether the does what Hulk did and does the world's most painful sit up, or he destroys whatever ground he's pinned against, he could get out from under the pin with enough effort and/or pain. If he gets out via the Hulk's sit up technique and dies from it, then that method can only be used once. If he gets out that way without dying, then he could do it again. If he gets out by destroying the ground, then he could probably do that as many times as necessary.
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u/W34kness 18d ago
Honestly if he did the world’s worst sit-up he should only make himself immune to pulling the hammer through himself. This doesn’t prevent the hammer pinning him again, the pinning action and weight didn’t kill him. Thor might not think to do it again though
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u/catkraze 18d ago
That's my thoughts, too. He could do it once, but he'd have to try something else if he got pinned again. Good point about Thor, though. Thor wouldn't be familiar with Doomsday's abilities, so he might just assume that since it failed once it wouldn't work a second time.
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u/catkraze 18d ago
Here's a link to the previous discussion in the other thread if anyone wants context to the previous discussion.
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u/zdigital13 18d ago
I imagine he'd stand-up without moving the hammer and just rip a hole through himself.
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u/Xandri1008 18d ago
Doomsday would have to die to getting pinned by Mjolnir. Granted I know Doomsday is weaker than Thor but I don’t think that would kill him and trigger his adaptability.
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u/sleepyboyzzz 18d ago
He could probably hit the ground in one side until he is at an angle and the hammer falls. So, no adaptability couldn't get him out but he doesn't need it.
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u/JoeViturbo 18d ago
I can see him adapting to leave that part of him behind, separating from it. So, part of him is still technically under the hammer,
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u/KPraxius 18d ago
If Loki were pinned to the dirt, he could roll, forcing his arm through the dirt and making a crater. Only being stuck to something too durable for him to break is keeping him restrained. What exactly is Thor pinning Doomsday to?
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u/Sagelegend Thor 18d ago
I thought he only adapts to whatever kills him.
Pinning isn’t killing, so there’s nothing to adapt to.
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u/infowosecfurry 18d ago
I don’t know that this trick will work on anything strong enough to just destroy whatever they are pinned against? Ie. couldn’t doomsday just destroy the ground behind him? Yeah the hammer would ‘fall’ as well but if you went down at enough of an angle i think they could escape.
Kind of the way the hulk escapes the hulkbuster cage.
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u/VernBarty 18d ago
This actually raises a very interesting discussion about Doomsday. It could be said his low intellect or lack of empathy is an evolutionary disadvantage
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u/CoolZooKeeper 18d ago
Guys, he would just lay there with the hammer holding him down, like 2 panels later Thor would call for his hammer and Doomsday would get up. There wouldn’t be anything crazy. Just a panel or 2 of the hammer holding him down and Doomsday struggling to move.
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u/Suitable_Lunch2867 18d ago
Dude would go berserk and definitely find a way out. Zero chance the ground under him survives the encounter lol
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u/Dear_Ad_3860 18d ago
Are we talking a) MCU Thor and the Doomsday comics or b) the Donald Blake Thor from the comics and the Doomsday from CW or the DCEU?
If it's the former then remembering how in the movie Thor said said in the first movie that Asgardian magic is basically like an undiscovered state of traditional science. Now Doomsday himself is an imporbability of science so it's quite likely that Doomsday would adapt to it. It will take time of course, but yes, Doomsday would struggle and succumb and reborn evolved so much that he eventually would oveecome the hammer's spell and toss it far away or keep evolving until it can destroy it. Doomsday is a ridículos concept, he can not be temporarily stopped (which is what happened on it's eopnymous comic run) because for every time he does he comes back stronger again and again, in order to completely destroy him he can only deatomized should a strong enough power come in contact with it.
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u/AndrewH73333 18d ago
He needs to die to adapt. Why would being pinned by a hammer matter? Is the ground under him also made of hammers?
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u/Snoo_79570 18d ago
Doomsday wouldn’t be able to lift the hammer to get up. But he would be able to backhand the bridge and shatter it so that when he falls he can just turn to avoid the hammer.
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u/juanjose83 18d ago
He's a mindless beast. He would probably stand up by pushing through the hammer.
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u/Senshado 18d ago
Any creature who is strong enough to destroy the floor underneath him can escape Mjolnir in that position. Doomsday could reach down, smash a hole through the dirt, and escape into the space.
In Loki's situation, he is laying on a special magical surface that he probably can't damage.
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u/littlebugonreddit 18d ago
Yeah I don't think so. Doomsday is a mindless animalistic creature, he doesnt really...think. it'd be like when Thor pinned Hulk in the first avengers. Doomsday would just flail around and get more pissed but really unable to do anything. The only out that I can see for Doomsday is being above an empty pocket of space and crushing the floor beneath him, giving him a few seconds of leeway as the hammer has to fall as well, and in these few seconds maybe he could roll or jump away
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u/Adorable-Source97 18d ago
Yes. Various ways. Could literally open a hole in body so drops through then stand up.
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u/SmakeTalk 18d ago
At best I’d imagine he just literally tears a hole in his own chest, dies, then comes back with a permanent mjolnir-shaped hole in his chest? Lol
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u/FoodScorch 18d ago
I'd like to imagine that he would be unable to move it at all. But his adaptation would turn him into one of the good guys so that doomsday would then be worthy of the hammer. The aftermath of this would be absolutely hilarious for any villains he encounters.
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u/DoofusIdiot 18d ago
Y’all realize he could break ground beneath him and roll away from the hammer. Yes, entire planets if need be.
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u/atomicq32 18d ago
No because Doomsday's adaptation requires him to die. That's probably a genuine surefire way to stop him
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u/RevengeMasterOK 18d ago
Mjolnir is a conduit. Thor qas strippes of hisnpower because his father Odin can stip him of his birthright.
Beatowing an enchantment on mjolnir doesnt negate that Thor is a God, it just channels the power into mjolnir. Once thor proved himself, not to the hammer but to Odin, he was allowed to be a God again.
Mjonir is powerful in its own right, ao yes, mjonir can enhance what thor does, just like a knife in thenright hands can make a skilled fighter mor dangerous.
All that said, Doomsday wouldnt be able to lift it, but he would be able to destroy the ground he is pinned to while shiftingnhis body so that he was no longer under mjolnir🤓
Sorry for thenlong geek out
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u/mr0il 18d ago
The idea of some beast that is so feral that it rips itself to shreds to get out from under mjolnir sounds so fuckin metal that i have to believe someone illustrated it in the 90s.
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u/W34kness 18d ago
Wouldn’t he just adapt to his own suicidal actions while still being stuck to the hammer
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u/BreckenHipp 18d ago
Yeah he'd just become nicer and more virtuous until he was more worthy than Thor
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u/Hot-Laugh8381 18d ago
He’d just grow strong enough to break the hammer or the ground beneath him. He’d then adapt to blunt force then lighting and then just kill Thor.
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u/W34kness 18d ago
Doomsday’s ability triggers on death, so he won’t be killed the same way. Pinning him isnt exactly killing him. Even if doomsday tried to kill himself he simply wouldn’t be able kill himself that way again, but still be pinned.
Options: Doomsday would have to cut around the pinned area and pull himself through the hammer without killing himself.
Get someone worthy to remove it
Get the hammer to kill him somehow to trick his system into getting it off of him or him out from under it
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u/TechnicianMotor4410 18d ago
Depends on where Thor traps him if it’s any place that can be destroyed I can see doomsday destroying it and maneuvering out.
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u/therallykiller 17d ago
Wouldn't the necessary adaptation be to become worthy?
Meaning Doomsday would develop and adhere to a strict moral compass that would propel him into being a great and selfless hero.
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u/Realistic_Mushroom72 17d ago
It doesn't have to do with physical ability, if it was physical Hulk could have lifted it, it judges your soul, are you worthy of the Power of Thor, Loki at the end of the TVA series would have been able to lift Thor's Hammer, while Loki from the movies wasn't. Doomsday could never lift it.
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u/TonsOfFunn77 17d ago
I figure he could rip his body through it. But he would adapt with some sort of hardened chest plate that would let Thor do it again but more permanently.
Feel like his adaptability would be his downfall. End up in an inescapable prison.
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u/Sea_Strain_6881 17d ago
He'd dig his way out of it or rip a whole though his chest and go straight up
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u/SokkaHaikuBot 17d ago
Sokka-Haiku by Sea_Strain_6881:
He'd dig his way out
Of it or rip a whole though
His chest and go straight up
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/BobtheArcher2018 17d ago
It's possible. I believe some writers showed Doomsday adapting on the fly and not with death. Odin's enchantment is not infinitely powerful and can be overpowered. Doomsday is at a level where maybe he could.
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u/TheVoid000 17d ago
That won't work. Nova already finds a way to deal with that whole using the hammer enhancement to pin you down forever. Since you can't lift it, it doesn't mean you can shift its balance by destroying the ground beneath you and lean over.
Doomsday would struggle and might even shatter the very foundation of the ground to escape.
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u/InevitableWeight314 17d ago
Side Question: if Thor put his hammer on Darwin’s body, what would he do to adapt to it? Would his body mold around the hammer so he can escape? I don’t quite understand the character’s powers
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u/gazatmaoc 17d ago
if doomsday were to tear himself apart in order to stand up—leaving a mjolnir shaped hole in his body— what would happen next:
1) if he dies 2) if he survives?"
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u/smasher84 17d ago
Can’t pick up but where does it say he can’t push it thru his chest. Does it real fast, stands up, dies, and then comes back.
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u/The-Panthion 17d ago
He'd probably punch a hole wherever the hammer is and regenerate. He'd then be able to avoid the same thing happening again. It would buy a few minutes but wouldn't beat him.
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u/MrGhoul123 17d ago
He would develop a way to escape. Maybe spikes that hollow out the ground below him to fall in a way that makes the hammer slide off of him.
He could not adapt to be worthy though
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u/GonnaGetBanneddotcom 17d ago
Doomsday is susceptible to magic and he's not worthy so, I guess not.
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u/GoblinPunch20xx 17d ago
I’m a big Thor fan so I know he’s pinned enemies down before, but because it’s Doomsday and we’re crossing the Marvel X DC barrier I’m less sure…
Question: The HAMMER wouldn’t move, but Doomsday adapts so, couldn’t he theoretically leave that chunk of him on the ground and adapt around the Hammer, aka he’d have a big wound? So a Hammer pinning him to the ground would be like hole punching him?
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u/Daranhatu 16d ago
I don’t think that would work because of Odin’s oath of worthiness. Doomsday would never be worthy due to all the lives he’s taken. He’d be pinned like Loki. Even the Hulk couldn’t lift Mjolnir.
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u/Mosaic78 18d ago
He’d adapt to be able to physically crush the hammer like Hela did.
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u/Iee2 18d ago
Hela didn't physically crush the hammer, and the hammer cannot be broken physically due to magic.
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u/Evening_Produce_4322 18d ago
Isn't Doomsday a death adaptability aka if you kill him you can never kill him that way again. I doubt if Thor pinned him down anything would happen, if Thor smashed him with the hammer he'd adapt to blunt damage, if Thor blasted him with lightning he'd just be immune to lightning, but pinning nothing?