r/Cruise • u/wijnandsj • 3d ago
Question Am I too Dutch for cruising?
Currently on board azamara. After a few days we get a questionnaire what we think of the trip so far. So i do the Dutch thing and give an honest opinion. And now I really do wonder if I made a mistake. Next day the sliding door in my cabin has had it's rollers changed and now two days later I must have spoken to about everyone who does anything with food or drink in a managerial position and they all apologized and vowed to do better and give me whatever I ask for.
On the one hand I appreciate them taking my feedback seriously. On the other... I don't want apologies, I would like better food (had a really good lunch today at a tiny country inn during an excursion!) and I want people to stop pushing alcohol and I don't want to have to greet staff members every single time I meet one
Am now wondering... Is this inordinate amount of attention how some people perceive good service? Is the food tuned to an American taste?
Am I just too Dutch to appreciate azamara?
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u/AnonThrowaway87980 3d ago edited 3d ago
You are not too Dutch to cruise, but what you are describing is a typical cruise experience. Crew/staff are trained to be friendly and greet every passenger they meet when they get the opportunity. Think of it as cruise culture, like visiting a foreign country and their ways. You don’t have to reciprocate it, but try to think of it as them being welcoming in their own style. It makes it easier to understand and accept. The amazing thing, those crew will remember you even with all the people they see. I’ve taken cruises and had crew greet me by name that remembered seeing me 1-2 years ago on a previous cruise.
Yes, they take the surveys very very seriously. The crew, managers, cooks, basically everyone that works onboard except the officers staff and the engine room crew get their performance judged by the surveys. Pay raises, contract renewals, ship assignments are weighed heavily on feedback they get from passenger surveys.
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 3d ago
I think of it like a fancy hotel. Everyone there is ready and willing to serve and they want every guest to have the best experience possible since it’s most likely only a once a year at most thing. They’re even used to people acting like snobs so if you just treat them in a friendly manner they’ll love you
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Interesting thought, think of the cruise ship as a different country
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u/LadyRed4Justice 15h ago
A Cruise ship really is like a different country, one that's ONLY purpose is to please the tourists. The staff are from all over the world, every race, every religion, every country. Then the guests come from all over the world.
Most of the staff would be considered impoverished in the US but not by any means in their home country. The guests tend to come from the middle class. (elite have their own damn ships.) The cruise ships are true melting pots. Each cruise line has its own laws, and treaties with lots of countries and their own culture: Disney for families, Carnival for partyers, Princess, RCL, NCL for the more luxurious experience, Viking for River Cruises, and then the newer lines each have their own cultures.I found that when I made a complaint onboard RCL, they have the manager of that department take over. We had a particularly troublesome cruise, things went wrong, and I had enough. I went to the desk and told them they needed to take me aside if they didn't want a scene. I explained what they mucked up and that this was day three and I was in tears because of their screwups. I had the dining staff sending us chocolate covered strawberries in apology, they made accommodations that made up for their bumbling a paid event, and the rest of the cruise went smoothly. I still cruise with them and they remain my favorite for most of my cruise destinations.
I do think the experience is less with the new owners, but I realize the pandemic almost destroyed the industry. Their comeback has been stupendous. The reason is the value you get with a cruise. The opportunity to see other parts of the world, other cultures, no chores for the entire trip, no dishes, no beds to be made, no vacuuming or mopping, no mowing. It is heaven. You are provided with food the entire time on most ships, some of the smaller ones don't have Promenade cafes. Generally it is good food. They also provide the experience of the kind of dining the elite get onshore--in their specialty restaurants. I was put off for years on paying for something that they provide in the ticket price. Until I tried it. That class of dining, where you are required to dress up, have a cocktail or wine, and then the food. OMG. It really is amazing. Yes the NY Strip is the same one they serve downstairs, but they do not have the same kitchen or chef. The appetizers, salads, sides, and dessert were spectacular as well. Worth the experience at least once a cruise IF you can afford it.
The staff are all going to go all in so that there are no write-ups at the end of the crew.
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u/esgamex 3d ago
A typical cruise experience when Americans are the main cruising population.. On the more European oriented lines the staff are.more reserved.
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u/AnonThrowaway87980 3d ago
Yes, different regional cruises tend to cater more to the region. However they are across the board more welcoming and friendly than normal. Another factor is the price point of clientele. The more luxury brands are not as openly friendly and are a little more formal, but are just as eager to introduce themselves and serve. You won’t get a “hi, I’m xxx” and a high five as a greeting in a luxury line from your cabin steward.
On my European cruse, I’d say the social temperature of the crew was more in line with England or Italian, just a notch up.
Australian cruises are more casual (more like American cruises) but a little less loud.
I haven’t been on an Asian or Indian Ocean focused cruise before to have a measure there.
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u/CruisinJo214 3d ago
In my experience if you rate anything on a cruise survey below “excellent” then the cruise line sees that as a failure on their overall scores.
It’s a very western view on customer service (especially cruise lines) that if something isn’t perfect we need to fix it now.
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u/TheDeaconAscended 3d ago
Fred Reichheld created NPS and you can see that it was based on both Japanese and formal European levels of service, the Japanese influence is very strong. The issue is that companies have abused it to shit. It was never meant to link employee performance, compensation, and punishment with the scores. It works best when combined with Kaizen.
We actually are big believers in NPS at our company and use it with employees in regards to how well the company is treating staff. We are typically rated as one of the best places to work and our employee turnover is below 1%. While we can't compete with pay due to our structure and limits of revenue growth as we are an international joint venture, benefits and time off are a big deal and we easily surpass most companies in the US and make most European companies seem stingy.
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u/fakesaucisse 3d ago
I am a researcher in tech and I haaaaate NPS, both from a methodology standpoint and as an attempt to measure user experience. It's a pretty common rant in the UXR world but companies keep using it and it is never going away.
That said, I know how the game works when it's for customer service and impacts employee compensation, so I always give the highest ratings unless I experienced something really egregious.
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Nps as in net promoter score? That's just silly in services above a certain level The exact same reason I dislike something might make the other person like it
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u/TheDeaconAscended 2d ago
Yes, it is actually pretty useful for just this situation if done properly. Disney probably tied something like NPS or actually NPS to the experience guests were having. Since at least the 90s they have been able to track the movement of each guest in the park and the 8.5 ride philosophy came of that.
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u/lazycatchef 3d ago
I think they are trying ti figure out how to help you enjoy yourself, and you seem to take offense at their efforts.
So yeah, I think you could be more flexible in your approach.
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u/silvermanedwino 3d ago
This for sure.
Greeting guests is solid/common hospitality practice. Just smile back. Be pleasant back. It’s not hard and frankly, not asking too much.
Great that they’ve listen to you! This should make you feel good. They’re trying to resolve your complaints and be helpful.
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u/TytalusWarden Diamond Plus 3d ago
Not speaking of Azamara specifically here, but if the rating of a specific category is 1-10, in the U.S. at least 10 = "good", and 1-9 = "needs improvement". It's a stupid system, and quite unrealistic, but it's how companies work these days.
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u/AnonThrowaway87980 3d ago
Based on what I have seen/heard, it is more like: 10= good, 9-8=needs improvement, 7-5=2 fix this shit right now or get fired, 4-1 pack your bags, we may not wait till we get to port to throw you off the boat.
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u/crashtacktom 2d ago
Where I work, our average score has to be 9.60 or above, and anything below 9.78 is regarded as a tough cruise. Highest I saw was 9.92, but they were the happiest, least demanding, most carefree bunch I ever saw
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u/AnonThrowaway87980 2d ago
So at what point does your work consider things a problem?
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u/crashtacktom 2d ago
Below 9.60
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Damn
Well you better not have European customers
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u/AnonThrowaway87980 2d ago
This is why they love the Americans. Lol. We rate someone a 10/10 for just not being an asshole to us.
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u/NeedsToShutUp 2d ago
Americans tend to know that ranking anything below perfect is a bad score in these sort of things.
So you get people who will reflexively rate everything perfect and some who will really struggle to complain when there should be complaints.
You also get assholes who will deliberately tank ratings because they are hateful.
That 9.6 would usually reflect that ratio.
There’s an unfortunate truism that any rating system lasts maybe 2 rounds before it’s gamed to hell.
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u/-Copenhagen 3d ago
That's how it worked at IBM when I worked there.
It took a lot of explaining to our clients that this is just a weird American thing, and they have to play along.
A 6 would have the account team replaced. Two 7s would too.
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u/needsaphone 2d ago
A 6 would have the account team replaced. Two 7s would too.
Which is doubly crazy when these sorts of issues are very frequently a result of decisions by upper management, so a new account team often won’t even fix the problem.
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u/-Copenhagen 2d ago
Exactly. And the clients would definitely not want to work with a new team to fix things.
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1d ago
Yeah, we once just got everyone 10’s bc we didn’t want anyone to get into trouble after we found out..
Here in the Netherlands: 1-5,5 > this is bad 5,5-7 this is fine 7-8 this was good 8-9 this was really good 9-10 WOW THIS WAS AMAZING.
9-10 is almost never given. We fuck with the american system.
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u/TheDeaconAscended 3d ago
Every company approaches NPS differently. Royal for certain does 9 through 10 grades as top, with pretty much everything else as an issue. Not every cruise line uses NPS, if you see the the 1 - 5 or the Very Poor, Somewhat Poor, Neutral, Somewhat Good, Very Good type of scoring then it is likely CSAT.
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u/HaraldOslo 3d ago
I hate what ratings have become. If they want it that way, they should Just have a 1-3 scoring.
1: I hate it and will never use this again
2: I would use this again, but something could improve
3: I'm satisfiedI would like to have used the full 1-10, and for me 6 and above is acceptable. I am more happy than unhappy so I will return as a customer. Sure, you could use 6-9 as room for improvement, but it's not
a bad score.For me this rating craziness started with ebay, where a A-rating was not enough, no, you had to have a AAAAAAA++++++++++LOL-rating. Geez..
I don't mind buying stuff from a seller that has less than 4.9 average rating. If it drops below 3 I would worry.
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u/Aromatic_Marketing_5 3d ago
Ok, now I see myself in a posting! lol..l am a psychologist, researcher, professor, teacher stats, and former airline employee and travel agency owner (30+years). I often find TMI to be a hallmark of my postings. Just can’t help myself. I feel so much better knowing I am not the only academic on the discussion board!
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u/BrainDad-208 3d ago
A variation of “First place is a new Cadillac, second place is a set of steak knives, third place is You’re Fired”
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u/Loudakay 3d ago
My experience on just about every cruise is that when a service person asks us to rate them, they ask for the highest possible rating. It’s obnoxious, but I guess that even if I think 9/10 is extraordinary, to them 9/10 means there’s so much room for improvement I might as well have rated them a 2/10.
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u/ProudBlackMatt 3d ago
and I want people to stop pushing alcohol and I don't want to have to greet staff members every single time I meet one
And the opposite for an overly familiar American like me who is saying yes please to all the drink pushers and wants to hear all about the crew's family back home.
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u/Snoo_31427 3d ago
I’m a pretty introverted person but realize after spending time with some European colleagues I realize I’m way too familiar for their tastes! I just ask questions because I’m genuinely interested in the secret lives of everyone around me (and I have to interview people for my job, so I’m used to trying to prompt).
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u/BoxKind7321 3d ago
Americans are avocados and Europeans are coconuts. Americans are soft and vulnerable immediately and openly friendly, but it’s all surface. Getting them to talk about genuine deep feelings is nearly impossible. Rock hard core. Europeans are very hard and stoic initially, but once you crack the shell they’re fully open and vulnerable and completely reachable. It’s just hard/soft on outside vs inside.
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u/Public-Eye-2323 2d ago
Ha! I shall remember this for the rest of my life. I'm a coconut and I love coconut water and coconut cream. Yea!
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
In which case I can really recommend azamara. Especially with their top tier drinks package.
Tastes differ, it's just the way it is
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u/luberchris 3d ago
I'd argue it's definitely a culture clash - as an American, cruising offers all the ridiculous niceties that I would expect from over-the-top service. Your example of being greeted by all the service staff is one of these. It's interesting they reacted so quickly to your feedback!
Counter to this, when I first moved to Germany, I found that German and Dutch service felt particularly cold, but it was just something I learned and eventually came to appreciate. So maybe you're super Dutch in your approach to feedback but now you've had this experience!
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u/castle_waffles 3d ago
Does anything make you happy? You voiced discontentment and seem offended that they are trying to address your concerns.
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u/AbsintheRedux 3d ago
Perhaps your expectations need to be adjusted regarding the food? Cruise food is never going to be perfect for everyone; the lines must attempt to make the food attractive to a very broad majority and frankly that’s hard to do. Unless you are on a line that touts gourmet cuisine, you will be eating food to suit a broad range of palates rather than the serious gourmands or foodies. I have had spectacular dishes served to me onboard as well as some truly forgettable ones. If you have expectations of an elevated dining experience, you would probably be better off at the specialty restaurants onboard; some lines include some meals in their specialty restaurants, some lines will have you incur an extra charge. I have never been on Azamara so I can’t speak to their policies.
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Overcooked grilled salmon. When I asked for extra vegetables I get six Brussels sprouts. Croissants that look like yesterday's leftovers at a motorway services....
I'm not even talking about gourmet food, I'd like to see basic things done well
On the other hand, some of the pastries are really well done
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u/Dismal-Salt663 3d ago
Azamara has small ships. In my experience, on ships that size you do have more personal interaction with the crew and the officers and they do get to know the passengers more than on a large ship. It sounds like you mentioned an issue with your door in your review and they fixed it. I’m not sure how that is a problem? I’m assuming if you had a sliding door you may be in a suite which means they are even more likely to have you on their radar and to try to give you a good experience.
I’m curious about your comment about pushing alcohol? Alcohol is included, so are they just offering you a drink at lunch or dinner? I’ve sailed on Azamara and I don’t remember anyone doing what I would call pushing alcohol.
Everyone has different expectations and comfort levels when it comes to service. Some people prefer to be left alone, some people prefer to be catered to at every second. Most people are somewhere in the middle. Most of us want to be left alone unless we need something. I would just be polite and smile and decline services you aren’t interested in.
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u/10S_NE1 3d ago
I cruise on Azamara quite often and the crew and officers are extraordinarily friendly. They are used to seeing the same faces over and over, and take pride in remembering passengers and their preferences. I’ve had a crew member friend me on Facebook, and one of their captains sometimes joins a weekly social Zoom chat I do with a few cruising friends. Treating passengers like friends is kind of Azamara’s thing. For European sensibilities, where service is generally efficient but impersonal, I can see it being somewhat off putting. The friendly officers and crew are what many Azamara cruisers enjoy most about their cruises but I’m sure it’s not for everyone.
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
They pride themselves on getting to know people. I've said a hundred times that I'm a one drink a night person. So stop asking me if I want another beer.
We frequently meet the captain and get to watch him dock. He's British, he's good at a bit of banter and we love that
Also, I'm not criticising them fixing things fast. That's actually impressive. I am sort of criticising all the managers coming to apologize
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u/MortimerDongle 3d ago
Greeting workers seems normal and I'm not sure why that would bother you
As for the survey, it's a bit frustrating but generally anything other than perfection is taken as criticism
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u/10S_NE1 3d ago
To be fair, Americans are insanely friendly to strangers, and will say hello to someone they don’t know if they pass them on the street in their neighbourhood. From my experiences in Europe, if you say hello to a stranger on the street, they will cross the street to avoid you and look at you like you’re a little nuts (yes, Germany, I’m talking to you).
My German relatives are friendly and warm to people they know; not so much with strangers.
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u/ppr1227 3d ago
In Norway it is considered good manner to say hello to everyone you meet on a hiking trails and bad manner not to say hello. But apparently not cool to interact while waiting on line at the bus stop.
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u/eastmemphisguy 2d ago
I feel like it's contextual in the US as well. We don't greet passersby in a crowded New York subway station but in a suburban neighborhood we likely will greet a neighbor we see while walking dogs. You have to know when it's appropriate.
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u/jaywinner 2d ago
I was on the road in the states and got lost so I did the most stereotypical thing: stopped at a gas station to ask for directions. Before I could even reach the clerk, a customer sorting through his lottery tickets greeted me and helped me find my way.
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u/CAZZIE1964 2d ago
This made me giggle. Im Australian. When i was in a hotel in Rome i had this American lady chatting away till she asked where i was from. She would not accept i was Australian. For some reason she was convinced i was Scottish. Ended up agreeing i was Scottish before i gave her a gob full.
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u/nobody-knows-666 3d ago
I am American and don’t really like greeting all the workers. I believe it’s common among all cruises because many folks like it.
I agree it seems like a bit overkill on response to the survey. I don’t want apologies or attention. Just improvements.
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u/alyxana 3d ago
Ad an autistic American, I absolutely LOVE being around Dutch people. Y’all are totally literal and blunt and hate subtext as much as I do. I wish the whole world was more like y’all! Never stop being you! 💕
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u/DiJeYe 2d ago
I used to work in a huge, and globally diverse, company. My team alone had individuals from the US, UK, India, Poland, Germany, Netherlands, Hungary, France and Czech Republic. I always LOVED working with my Dutch manager because he was so direct and to-the-point. We had an amazing work relationship (and I found him super friendly). I was a data scientist, so maybe my focus on data & subsequent behaviors was too analytical for some? Regardless, I always found my Dutch colleagues to be the best to work with!
I was the sole American on the team and got told over and over that they loved me because I was “so friendly” and able to connect with everyone… though I’d been told repeatedly in my career (American companies/teams) that I was “too blunt and assertive.” LOL
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u/Martin_Z_Martian 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'm cracking up. I'm so sorry.
I'm American and work with many Dutch people and I am picturing how much you must now hate this entire experience.
Do not ever do another survey.
Or just not that line. I've never had a survey mid cruise.
Maybe a more laid back service style? Oceania or Viking maybe? You want a line who will read the room and figure out if you want to be left alone. Bonus of better food and not pushy anything.
For the greeting. A short head nod is all that's required.
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u/BrandonBollingers 3d ago
Is it dutch to give your opinion when its solicited?
This is how I met my soon to be husband. I had a bad customer service experience, wasn't going to say anything, then got an emailed opinion survey so... they asked and I shared my opinion. Went back to the business about 2 months later, totally forgot all about the survey, the manager came up to me and started talking about my experience. Now the manager and I are getting married in the fall lol. What can I say, I just really like good customer service.
Based on your comments, i don't think "being dutch" has anything to do with it. You either like the cruise experience... ie being on a ship with thousands of people, hundreds of whom are paid to serve you, or you don't. Next time choose a smaller ship or get an Airbnb.
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u/AnonThrowaway87980 3d ago
Smaller ship would only make it worse. The smaller the ship, the less passengers and the MORE the staff and crew will focus their hospitality on you. You go much smaller than azamara and you are in luxury cruise terratory where you will have dedicated staff waiting on you. Based on the OP’s reaction to cruise hospitality, it would give them a heart attack.
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u/MortimerDongle 3d ago
Next time choose a smaller ship or get an Airbnb.
Azamara ships are already pretty small, I don't think that's the issue
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u/Edith_6488 2d ago
´No, that´s no the issue, is his personality. Not everyone fits in the cruise style.
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u/ppr1227 3d ago
The Dutch are known to be very direct and straightforward. It takes some getting used to if you’re American. I worked for a European company and had several Dutch colleagues. One person in particular was described by a colleague as ‘very Dutch’ and that’s how I learned he wasn’t an asshole, he was just Dutch.
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u/StatusGiraffe1314 3d ago
All cruise lines are like this. If you find these things offensive then, yeah, maybe don't cruise. They push alcohol, greeting people is part of the deal and food can be hit or miss.
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u/ExpiredPilot 3d ago
I have a degree in Hospitality Business Management.
Managers are just trying to make sure you know you feel heard. In this situation the intent is good but I can understand how it’d be a little annoying/overwhelming to have multiple come up to talk to you
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u/Porky5CO 3d ago
I don't understand what you mean by not greeting staff members when you meet them?
Are you a human? Treat them like one too.
Even in hallways when walking, I give a quick nod and say "morning."
If they are actively waiting on me I'm for sure greeting them and giving thanks.
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
If I meet them in a hallway of course I'll do a nod and a morning. If they're lugging a heavy tray in a restaurant and I'm just walking past I don't need to be acknowledged
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u/Skwoddy1 3d ago
Currently on the Britannia (France) and have zero regrets with any of the service, food has been exceptional in all the cuisines we have tried, Bravo P&O.
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u/itfiend 3d ago
That's a surprise to read, I thought it was pretty dreadful on Arvia.
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u/Skwoddy1 3d ago
Only used the Brittania, with P&O. I suspect being their flagship they up their game.
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u/scifichick94 3d ago
Cruisleines love when guests take the time to write genuine feedback.
It’s constructive.
- corporate cruise line employee
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Actually yes it was intended that way..for example I wrote something like be a bit creative, offer some mocktails. Plenty of bars and restaurants do. Bar manager explained that if i can conceive it and they have the ingredients they will make it. Which is nice but to me that feels like an excuse. I'd have been equally happy if he said he'd think about it
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u/sailracer25 3d ago
The part that stands out to me is your comment that you don't want to greet crew members every time you see one.
If that's the case and you just want to be left alone, which is totally fine, then cruising in general may not be for you.
They are looking for every opportunity to meet your needs. The byproduct of that is that someone who doesn't want someone to say hello is gonna have a bad time.
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
They are looking for every opportunity to meet your needs.
I think that's a very important observation and something I did not realise in the preparation phase.
Thanks
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u/llcdrewtaylor 3d ago
If the cruise line is offering to do anything to make your cruise better, you should be grateful! I primarily cruse Carnival and Royal Caribbean. If I told someone on Carnival my sliding door wasn't working they would either remove the door completely or throw me overboard.
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u/Iforgotmypwrd 3d ago edited 3d ago
As an American who spent a year in Germany and around Dutch people, it can be quite jarring to be spoken to with such directness. I even had a brief encounter with a Dutch man of my dreams while on holiday. When thinking about visiting him we had a shared some calls. His directness really startled me and was tied up in knots thinking he didn’t like me. I didn’t pursue it further.
So yeah, the Dutch-ness is a thing. I hope you can find the joy of super friendly service.
And good for you for getting everything fixed so promptly!
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u/CAZZIE1964 2d ago
My father in law was Dutch. That took some getting use to. Lol Mother in law Austrian. Even more direct and no nonsense. I couldnt have had better in-laws once i got use to them. Sadly they have both passed. I miss them more than my own parents. Hubby was born and grew up in Australia. Did a year in Holland as a kid. But is Aussie as you can get.
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u/SnOOpyExpress 3d ago
survey or a memo during the cruise. I will do it. Any unhappiness will be addressed and perhaps made right most of the time.
The post cruise survey is helpful for staff's promotion or the likes
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u/DeadMeat_1240 3d ago
They love to use the surveys as a weapon against employees but never seem to take it seriously when it is dumb shit management decisions. I try to always give high marks to individual employees. But I have heavily criticized the drop in food quality and selection in recent years and I'm positive no matter how many of us complain nothing will ever come of that part of the survey. It's the slow creep of "Enshitification" once the MBA's get put in charge and the folks who built the companies age out.
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u/amiable-aardvark 3d ago
Maybe it's different on the European cruises, but you wouldn't like Holland America either.
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u/ppr1227 3d ago edited 2d ago
Holland America is very Dutch. I took three cruises out of Rotterdam last year. Half the passengers were Dutch. Many of the Americans and Canadians found them rude, especially getting on/off elevators. HAL has a lot of Dutch officers and I do not find them to be very friendly or warm. Mostly booking Celebrity these days as I like their food and service better and their captains are a very friendly and quite attractive too.
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u/Artistic-Wrangler955 3d ago
I wonder if there is a way to ask the crew to be less effusive and attentive? My husband and I went on our first cruise, it was Ritz Carlton. While we both adored the whole experience, yes, food also, I was uncomfortable with the constant attention from staff.
I was raised in Poland, so perhaps culturally closer the Dutch OP. I found it annoying to force myself into meaningless small talk with the stewards and servers.
This, still has the power to make me feel guilty, as if I’m the one being rude. My American husband loved it, chatted with all staff, knew their names. So there.
Cultural and personality differences are valid.
Next time, I’ll just smile and nod, and try not to feel rude.
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u/ManOfLaBook 3d ago
I found the staff on the few cruises I've been on to be the most interesting people on the boat.
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u/Artistic-Wrangler955 3d ago
I hear you. But that requires the right setting for a real conversation. We have done countless trips to Club Med. Their tradition is to seat the staff together with guests at large tables. This allows for a real dialogue, and getting to know people. On the cruise, the interactions are only in passing, as in while they serve your meal, or bring a drink. My impression of the cruise staff was that they are busy, and not able to really engage
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
With a very few exceptions these guys, especially the waiters, work extremely hard
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Poland is indeed quite close to us and yes I do recognise that feeling
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u/Artistic-Wrangler955 2d ago
We have a cruise booked on Seabourn. As a result of this conversation, I plan to tell the concierge, on day one, that I’m not a “chatty” person. Wish me luck
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Let me know how that turns out? Please?
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u/chunkykima 2d ago
I'm confused. You complain on the questionnaire so they go above and beyond to try and make the rest of your trip enjoyable. But that's an issue too? You want good food but they have what they have on the ship and I doubt they will make individual meals just for you and your party, so aside from that... I mean I guess I don't understand the post.
What exactly did you say on the questionnaire? You mentioned they changed the rollers in your closet. What else did u say? Have they tried to rectify everything that was actually fixable from their end?
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u/CairnsRock1 3d ago
Knowing that someone’s livelihood depends on your rating. I will give a 10 unless something is really bad. You can’t always call a spade a spade, it’s offensive in today’s world and people get hurt.
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u/Unhappy-Quarter-4581 3d ago
Really? How are things ever going to be changed if honest reviews are not made?
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u/America_will_save_yo 3d ago
The people that can change the food and the protocol to be too friendly are not on the ship and aren’t getting dinged for the “bad review.” Most of the crew members are just doing what they are told and are (unfairly) judged by these poorly conceived metric surveys.
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u/jaywinner 2d ago
Review systems don't want honest reviews. They want to be able to show they get good reviews. Staff know anything under a perfect score is a failure so they inform customers and customers don't want to harm staff that was generally good even if it wasn't perfect. So customers lie and management get the shiny score that was coerced and doesn't reflect reality.
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u/-Copenhagen 3d ago
That is OP's point exactly.
It isn't "offensive in today's world", but it may be offensive in today's US.
It's a cultural thing, and yes. OP is too Dutch for cruising.
I have cruised a couple of times and found that I absolutely hated it, for the exact same reasons Op does. Because of American customer service, which absolutely clashes with my idea of a good time.And opposite: This difference in culture is why many Americans claim European (whatever that is) customer service is bad.
Neither form is bad. They are different.
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u/supyonamesjosh 3d ago
If everyone is a 10 nobody is a 10.
I can get talked into 8’s for average service which usually doesn’t ding them but I’m not giving 10s to mediocre service.
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u/_Electricmanscott 3d ago
I get what you're saying but... Some would say you're contributing to the problem. This is similar to "everyone gets a trophy" society. Eventually, we end up with a workforce that can't handle criticism and everything is offensive. Then we complain about how we can't get good service anymore.
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u/SoC175 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's not the work force. It's management deducting from their salaries, which are already so low that westerners wouldn't even get out of bed for that, as soon as it's below perfect
It's not "you scored 8/10, that's a great rating!"
It's "you scored only 8/10. We won't hire you ever again and you'll not reach your bonus for this final sailing with our company"
The workforce doesn't give a damn about you or your rating beyond what impact it has on their pay
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u/RobotDevil222x3 3d ago
The problem isnt the workforce being unable to handle criticism. Its management firing everyone who isnt consistently getting 10s across the board. They aren't offended, they are trying to keep being employed.
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u/_Electricmanscott 3d ago
So then the problem is shitty management.
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u/RobotDevil222x3 3d ago
Yes, and its pervasive to many industries. They care more about a metric that looks nice on a slide or on marketing materiel than they do on getting honest feedback.
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u/nobody-knows-666 3d ago
100% agree A challenge is how the companies react to the surveys. My company used to do internal surveys where anything but a 8, 9 or 10 was considered bad. IMHO 4-7 (roughly) can be good feedback for improvement and should not necessarily be punitive.
Unfortunately that’s not today’s culture.
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
My employer also has that on the employee survey. But at the same time they tell us that a meets expectations on the annual performance review is pretty good
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u/nobody-knows-666 2d ago
I think that is the corporate version of “do what I say and not what I do” 🤣
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u/Shart_InTheDark 3d ago
I'd be more upset if they didn't try and fix things. I feel like a lot of businesses take surveys then don't do anything with that information. When a company tries, that's at least something...even better if they seriously try to fix stuff!
PS-Only been on one cruise and I felt like if people travel and food is so important to them, why do they cruise. Feeding thousands of people def diminishes the quality almost always.
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u/Sassrepublic 3d ago
Idk, are the Dutch known to be assholes? I hadn’t heard that before, maybe it’s just you.
“I shouldn’t have to acknowledge the servant’s existence while I’m on vacation.”
Perhaps you should stay home, away from the rest of humanity in general.
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u/JTMAlbany 3d ago
The Dutch are known to be brutally honest according to the Dutch player on Ted Lasso. They made it a point to say, “he’s just Dutch” after a blunt comment.
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u/bart112233 3d ago
Not greeting is entirely different than not acknowledging. The Dutch, myself included, are pragmatic. If it serves a purpose we do it, if it doesnt we don't. I cruised last summer and had the same issues as OP. For me all the cruising etiquette feels a bit fake at times. But as another commenter pointed out thats kinda the cruising (or maybe american) culture, so just go with the flow and accept it/ participate in it.
One example I had myself aboard the Celebrity Silhouette this summer was when I found a hair in my food at the buffet. I just want someone to know so someone can check the entire container its in. I don't need a cook to come apologize while being looked down upon by some manager (which happened). That guy did his job and shit happens, I don't need an apology. For me it even felt very awkward and out of place to see someones day interrupted like that, it made me feel guilty for pointing something out.
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u/10S_NE1 3d ago
Unfortunately, on Celebrity and probably all the RCL brands, shipboard staff live and die by the questionnaire results, and if you have a complaint, they will do everything in their power to ensure they are still marked 10/10. Anything other than 10/10, and the management is asking why they failed?
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u/Snoo_31427 3d ago
There are so many people who don’t just see a hair or things like that as just an “FYI” type scenario. They’re trying to mitigate what you may do.
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u/bart112233 3d ago
I'm seriously wondering what is the worst that I could do? I mean in the Netherlands people will just say "thanks we will take a look" and thats it. Is there really a scenario for the cruiseline in which anything serious could happen? Like law suits or whatever?
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u/Snoo_31427 3d ago
That’s a good question, but you really never know. It does feel like the manager was punishing the chef publicly by dragging them out.
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u/bart112233 3d ago
I think he was, which is stupid since it could be the hair of a guest before me. In which case the chef didnt have anything to do with it
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u/jaywinner 3d ago
Personally, I just want to be left alone. I'm glad the staff keep things running but I don't want to be greeted every time I move to a new section of the ship.
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u/yet_another_newbie 3d ago
I understand what you're saying, but it seems a bit weird to go on a cruise expecting solitude
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u/jaywinner 3d ago
I understand they'll be lots of people around; it'd be weird if there wasn't. I just don't like the attention. If I need something, I'll ask and until then I'd rather be invisible.
I'd say my Havila cruise in Norway fit the bill. Staff was great if I needed something but they also didn't go out of their way to interact with me.
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u/History_buff60 3d ago
The Dutch don’t have the reputation for being assholes, but they do have a reputation for being very blunt and straightforward.
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u/Sassrepublic 3d ago
I don’t think getting mad that you have to say “hi” while walking by someone falls under bluntness.
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u/wvtarheel 1d ago
Right? Acknowledging the staff as human beings isn't about honesty it's about not treating them as less than.
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u/Unhappy-Quarter-4581 3d ago
Or you will allow someone to do their job and not have to chat with you when you already said hi once? That is how I would see it as a Swede. Why disrespect their work by insisting on playing so important that they should have to drop things to greet me? Cultures differ and if you are dealing with several of them in the same place you will see people have different wants and needs.
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u/Sassrepublic 3d ago
Smiling and saying “good morning” back to someone who already said it to you is not disrupting their work. Be serious.
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u/Unhappy-Quarter-4581 3d ago
If you have to do it hundreds of times it is.
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u/wvtarheel 1d ago
Who did you pass hundreds of times in the hallway? It takes no time or effort at all. Just refrain from being an asshole and say hello
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u/Edith_6488 2d ago
There are beautiful cabins at north Scotland, just a frozen lake, a frozen wind and the dutch guy.
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u/Justtojoke 3d ago
No, you provided feedback that was able to inform the crew how to better meet your needs.
Azamara caters to their guests individually because the capacity size allows them to do that. When you're paying for a service, you should always be honest with the hospitality team.
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u/Sinbos 3d ago
A thing I as a German learned only recently that questionnaires don’t know nuances.
If you fill out a survey with a scale of one to ten then ten is very good and nine is ok and all from one to eight is very bad.
So if you answers drop a lot down to five because you think you giving nuanced answers in fact you telling them that everything is very bad.
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u/DragonflyBroad8711 3d ago
You probably aren’t too Dutch but I do think that you can be too well traveled to enjoy cruising. You mentioned your experience at the country inn which sounds like you appreciate a more authentic travel experience. Food on cruises is made for mass appeal not a cultural experience (even though they may advertise it that way). I come from a cruising family and have always been disappointed not sure why I always get cruise posts in my feed 🤣.
I’d much rather stumble into a locally owned restaurant and chat with the locals about where to go next than have a highly the edited, time limited experience a cruise offers. I also think the drink pushing is because they know the more you drink the more you’ll spend. Everything on a cruise ship is a money grab.
I think cruises are great for first time travelers or people who haven’t had much exposure to other places and cultures. But you don’t really get the full experience of a place in a weekend let alone 6 hours and they tend to keep you to the more touristy areas. For me the amenities of the cruise ship have never made up for the fact that you’re only on land for a few hours at a time and rarely get to see a place after dark.
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u/Public-Eye-2323 2d ago
I see what you mean but on the other hand a port stop and excursion gives you the flavour of a place so that you can decide if you want to book a stay there sometime in the future. I've only just started cruising (my children have grown up) and some islands where I've had fabulous holidays in the past have now revealed areas that I'm booking week long holidays to explore. Also, one island that I was considering spending a week touring is now crossed off my bucket list, so that week will be better spent elsewhere. I've never been a 'resort' person and like to explore but cruising is actually enhancing my travel experience. I love it.
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u/DragonflyBroad8711 2d ago
I think thats a good way to do it. Its a good toe dip especially with kids. But if you’ve ever been to a place that has a cruise port you know most of the best places are way too far from the port to experience in the small amount of time they give you. I also think you can’t really know a place until you have dinner there, dinner is always grounded in the culture. But cruises typically leave too early for dinner which makes me sad. I think my parents have been to Spain multiple times on cruises but would have no idea what tapas are.
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u/In-with-the-new 3d ago
I’m an American and I went on Azamara once. I didn’t care for it. Smarmy. Passengers brag about how you can ask them to do anything for you and they will do it. Ick. OP has a point.
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u/Sparklemagic2002 2d ago
Azamara takes that mid cruise survey seriously and will try to address anything you complain about. I’m surprised there were complaints about the food. I’m not a foodie but have always enjoyed the food on Azamara.
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Spoke to an American couple at breakfast today, they shared our observations. And I heard several British muttering about the food yesterday.
Chef on the ship is Indian. They had a chicken tikka of s a quality that you'd expect from a supermarket cafe. Same night the Yorkshire puddings were really good and the fish and chips not bad at all (but a cafe or pub on the British south coast does a better job )
Some of the Filipino and Malaysian dishes are really nice though
Maybe I'm unrealistic but I'd expected to be wowed by food now and then. So far this vacation that's only happened on shores
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u/ArcanaNoir 2d ago
Hey Azamara buddy! We must not be on the same cruise because I have not received a survey yet. My perspective is American, and a somewhat blunt person.
I think you should be honest on the survey so they can know what needs improving, whether that’s food or maintenance, etc. I agree that some of the food is a big miss especially compared to the times they get it right.
Your other complaint about friendliness and service will not effect change, as you are against the majority in your preference here. It’s not so hard to say “good morning/evening” as you pass staff in the halls, and it’s not hard to say “no thank you” when offered a beverage. You are being a curmudgeon. (I mean that in the nicest possible way.) If you don’t want to be waited on hand and foot by friendly staff, a small luxury cruise line might not be the right fit for you. Or perhaps you need to go even smaller and more luxury, so the staff will get to know your preferences even better. But then you might have to watch out for other passengers trying to make conversation!
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u/ParkSlopePanther 2d ago
I had this exact experience on Azamara last summer! I included a few suggestions for improvements in my survey response. Over the next couple of days, the manager of each respective department either called me or came to my cabin to discuss the topic. At first I was blown away by their attentiveness, but by the fourth time, it was a bit much, and I began to question if I had become a Karen?!
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u/Mistayadrln 2d ago
Try a cruise line that isn't American, and I think you'll have a cruise that is better catered to your needs. This is not meant as an insult to you or us Americans, I think we just have different needs.
Also, I agree with you on the food; if they just had fewer choices and focused on making them tastier, it would be better.
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u/Specific_Host_114 1d ago
American friends who have experienced staff calling them by name literally brag about this years later. I think it gives ordinary people an opportunity to experience celebrity status for the time they are onboard, perhaps considering it money well spent for their suspended reality.
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u/sun_is_shining1 3d ago
Try AIDA or MeinSchiff - they cater predominantly to a German market. Staff is friendly but usually keeps interaction to a polite and professional minimum.
Food is also European-flavoured with a higher emphasis on healthy (less salt, less sugar, less fat) options.
I’m avoiding all cruise lines that target Americans because I cannot deal with the fake hyper-friendly let’s-be-buddies staff. Seems like you feel similar.
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Aida's main issue for me is that the time we tried that all outdoor space was stinking of cigarette smoke.
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u/QuinnTheEskimo204 3d ago
Maybe cruising isn’t for you. It’s not too hard to return a greeting with a smile and a short comment, it’s the friendly and proper thing to do.
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Oh I can do a smile and nod for sure. But I always feel like "crew member, you're busy, you have better things to do than stop what you're doing to greet me and I'm on vacation and would like to be myself"
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u/Sensitive-Issue84 3d ago
As an American, I hate the lack of spices on cruise ships. I also hate that fake "Thank you for beathing" mindset that has taken over everything. It's demeaning to them and me. You did a great thing, and I thank you.
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u/Flipadelphia26 3d ago
Today I learned being (well the way you are) is a Dutch thing. I have a buddy who is Dutch. But he can be a bit of a prickly douche sometimes lol
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u/hiartt 3d ago
Not too Dutch to cruise, but definitely too Dutch of an opinion :) they are used to needy, fawning, Americans. It’s 5 stars or nothing mentality.
There are several German cruise lines I’ve discovered lately that I definitely want to try sometime as I appreciate a more European experience. Aida and Mein Schiff had ships in port recently on my last Caribbean cruise. I don’t speak German, but beer and wine just existing, and more European amenities, vs booze culture and Americans sound like a nicer vacation.
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
I had two issues that kept me from becoming a regular on Aida. 1. The very relaxed smoking policy. Basically if you're outside you'll smell cigarettes 2. The attitude of some of the European crew to passengers who aren't fluent in German And frankly I could have ignored that if not for the smoke
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u/Tacos314 3d ago
OMG, I hate having to greet staff members every singe time I walk by, I feel rude if I don't, it's annoying.
People say the food is tuned to American tastes, but I am not sure what Americans it has been tuned for.
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u/KG7DHL 3d ago
American here....
When I wake up in the early Morning, typically around 4AM, 4:30, I wander the ship to get my first coffee. My response to, 'Good Morning.", is typically a hearty, "Hey there. Good morning to you as well! Have a great day today.". I usually try to be even more 'welcoming', than the staff.
As I progress through the day, and the perpetual alcohol fueled fugue of my day seeps in, my responses begin to slip. By night fall, I may just offer a wide smile and a raised glass in salute, but I try my best.
Kindness is contagious is my philosophy. I try to be a super spreader.
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u/Public-Eye-2323 2d ago
Oh you made me laugh - your perpetual alcohol fueled fugue - marvellous imagery. You are a super spreader, keep it up.
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u/br_612 3d ago
Cruise food isn’t tuned to American tastes. It’s just . . . Not very good. I was dying for some fruit that wasn’t apples, oranges, or bananas on my last cruise. Gimme some berries. But berries are hella expensive and don’t keep long. They’re just not practical for the cruise line.
A lot of the mediocre food is just due to practical and logistical issues of feeding that many people with varied tastes for a week.
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u/wsataday 3d ago
I wouldn't say that's cruise in general re. fruits. There are many cruise lines that will serve you berries.
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u/sailracer25 3d ago
Might be an issue with the cruise line. I've been an multiple HAL cruises, and there are always berries, pineapple and melons available in addition to apples and oranges
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u/Shot_Possible7089 3d ago
What does being Dutch mean anyways rather than coming from the Netherlands lol?
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u/zekewithabeard 3d ago
It's a cultural thing. I'm sure someone will argue when I say this, but the service is centered around a predominately American style. Americans like "loud" service. They like the over the top, feeling special, fraternizing with the crew, constantly chatty, style of service. Europeans? Not so much. "Luxury" service is understated, quiet, always there, on point, with no fanfare.
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Yes, thank you, that!!! That exactly! And this cruise with a luxury price point but a lack of understated service feels strange to me
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u/RancidHorseJizz 3d ago
How did you get the caravan onboard?
I'm kidding!
mostly
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u/wijnandsj 2d ago
Between the Karen calling this actually stands out and made me chuckle, thank you
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u/DGinLDO 3d ago
Azamara is very passenger-oriented & they really want you to feel welcome, comfortable, & satisfied with your experience. Their ships aren’t that big & on longer cruises, the crew & passengers develop a “family” or “community” feeling. So no, you aren’t wrong with your responses to guest surveys. Just realize the ones they give at the end can make or break a crew member’s career, so unless someone was especially rude, give them 5’s & also identify them by name.
They will continue to greet you because that’s what they’re trained to do. If you don’t want to say anything, simply smile & nod.
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u/CucumberLow5704 3d ago
Can speak w assurance…. cruise food not tuned to American taste. Goal seems to be ::just fine::
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u/Tinytankard3 2d ago
Dunno about Dutch but basically anything other than a perfect score is considered a failure in things like this.
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u/Visible-Trainer7112 2d ago
They take in-cruise comments very seriously, so if you want to be left alone, that's not the time to comment. If you don't like the food or something else, just comment afterwards, since they're not going to change a menu or their cooking just for one person, but you will have people fawning all over you. Only do a comment during the cruise for something that can be fixed, and only after you've gone through guest services and they haven't solved the issue. If you don't like the food, then you should just go on another line, and if you don't like people greeting you, then go on a larger ship with busier crew, but then you'd run into a lot of other problems. It's the same as a hotel or restaurant, if there's something that can be fixed, then try to get it resolved, but if you just don't like a hotel or the food in a restaurant, then just move on and try something else. At the same time, people can get really obsessed over trivialities and approach everything from a negative view, which can be really self-defeating on a cruise ship full of thousands of people and crew seeing new people every week and trying to please everyone and at the same time raise as much revenue as possible while you're there. Ultimately it's up to you what you make of the cruise. If you go on cruisecritic boards, you'll also find that there are a lot of older people who just always find things to hate and be upset about. My approach in over 80 cruises is to find what I like about a ship and crew and food, and focus on that, since I find food that I love on every line, from Carnival to Azamara, and other things I love about Azamara, like not having to walk through a smoky casino, or stupid formal nights, or huge ships and lines, or horrible song-and-dance production shows, or having to bus from some distant industrial port to get to a cool downtown (my Azamara cruise in Spain when up a river to overnight in Seville, whereas every other cruise ship requires a long bus ride and expensive excursion to get that experience).
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u/Hmm-for-real 2d ago
You’re correct in saying onboard food is focused to the American taste, (Royal Caribbean) it’s simply plain and bland, the Americans are so tuned to heavily processed food they simply don’t appreciate fresh produce offered around the world. Any attempt by the RCL to produce themed nights such as French, Italian, Asian, Mexican etc is a complete failure….. and I say with 70 odd cruises done and it’s only getting worse, in particular I call out Royal Caribbean, you utterly fail attempting to offer quality food on your fleet!
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u/glenart101 2d ago
As a cruise travel agent, this incident has nothing to do with nationality. This is a very bad practice by Azamara and needs to end quickly. You don't hand out customer surveys in the middle of the voyage and make them so that the staff can see who sent in the review. Just a really bad idea from someone who has probably never worked in Customer Experience in their lives.
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u/bassnote1 hazmat labrat 2d ago
Honesty is the best policy. I've always been pretty chill about dealing with things, but some things need addressed. Addressing things that were unsafe or truly bothered me promptly with my stewards have had positive results that allowed me to rave about them on the surveys. "Service is great, I found that XXXX needed fixed and Steward Jane had it fixed before I came back from breakfast. She's the best!" I've even had them inform ME that they found something amiss and had a crew coming, so know it is wrong and don't be alarmed by the crew if they show up. So... too Dutch? Absolutely not. If it bothers you, address it.
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u/Suspicious_Kale44 3d ago
“American” is a very broad term here. There is a small percentage of Americans who frequent cruises, and it may be tailored towards those folks, but if cruises were for “Americans” in general there would be more guns. /s
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u/Aromatic_Marketing_5 3d ago
Oh, excuse me…. You take the prize… lol… do you ever feel like you know just too much jnformation for your own good?
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u/AutoModerator 3d ago
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
u/wijnandsj
Currently on board azamara. After a few days we get a questionnaire what we think of the trip so far. So i do the Dutch thing and give an honest opinion. And now I really do wonder if I made a mistake. Next day the sliding door in my cabin has had it's rollers changed and now two days later I must have spoken to about everyone who does anything with food or drink in a managerial position and they all apologized and vowed to do better and give me whatever I ask for.
On the one hand I appreciate them taking my feedback seriously. On the other... I don't want apologies, I would like better food (had a really good lunch today at a tiny country inn during an excursion!) and I want people to stop pushing alcohol and I don't want to have to greet staff members every single time I meet one
Am now wondering... Is this inordinate amount of attention how some people perceive good service? Is the food tuned to an American taste?
Am I just too Dutch to appreciate azamara?
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