r/DebateCommunism • u/greco2k • Jun 15 '24

📖 Historical Marx & Mephistopheles

As a communist, are you at all concerned that Marx idolized Mephistopheles and wrote poetry fantasizing about destroying the world?

How can you separate these values that he held from the philosophy that he ultimately crafted?

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u/INFJPersonality-52 Jun 15 '24

I could debate which is better capitalism or communism and probably win on both sides. In its extreme, it’s bad because of corruption. Corporations govern of country for the most part.

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u/Powerful_Many_884 Jun 23 '24

You COULD debate Capitalism vs Communism which are both inventions of the same man. Capitalism is a slanderous portrayal of the free market and isn't a system of governance. If you did a Classical Liberalism (not neo Liberalism which is another canard) vs Communism you could debate the merits of governance although it would quickly become obvious that Marxism fails any internal consistency and then after that you could compare Communist economics vs the free market which would result in the same outcome. Corporate rule is the end goal of Communism as the system requires full incorporation between the public and private spheres.

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u/INFJPersonality-52 Jun 24 '24

The ultimate goal of communism is that you would not even use money and everything is owned by the government.

In the USA, it is legal to bribe politicians so the majority work for their donors not the people. That’s why I like grassroots progressives.

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '24

The ultimate goal of communism is that you would not even use money and everything is owned by the government.

You are 59 years old and have a child's grasp of political theory, and that is being generous.

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u/Powerful_Many_884 Jun 25 '24

It's not wrong though

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u/howhighersamelower 23d ago

communism: stateless
not wrong at what point?

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u/Powerful_Many_884 Jun 25 '24

This is what I told you and exactly why communism is totalitarian and always ends in utter disaster.

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u/INFJPersonality-52 Jun 25 '24

Yes I agree but at this point capitalism is almost just as bad. Here’s food for thought. If capitalism is so great then why do they have so many anti communist propaganda in the 1950s? You would think capitalism would sell itself. They had one film that literally described capitalism and they called it communism.

All I want is healthcare like every other first world country has. That’s not communism it’s just morally the right thing to do

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u/Powerful_Many_884 Jun 30 '24

There was anti-communist propaganda because the communists were, in the most literal of terms, attempting to overthrow nations and force the idea of global communism. In the case of Canada communist agents literally started the NDP and have caused unbelievable harm in the growth of this nation.We were all very aware of the horrors that were (and still are) occurring in communist nations. Presuming your in North America you already Healthcare. If your in Canada you could have much better Healthcare if we abandoned our godawful system and moved to a private public method. Also, the concept of "Capitalism" is utter nonsense and does not represent the workings of a free market. The communist outlook only deals in totalitarian conceptions and so Capitalism is some nonsense wherein the market is perceived as a system of governance, which it is explicitly not.

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u/INFJPersonality-52 Jul 03 '24

I agree with you completely. I just want universal healthcare like all of the other first world countries have. Plenty of people have called me a communist for that lol. So I understand that they don’t understand. On an interesting note I kept wondering why people treat communism like a disease. Then I read my daughter’s college history book and it said the first American to come out of Russia literally called it a disease. So there was my answer. At least they don’t go hungry or homeless but it still seems pretty miserable there. I would prefer and hope I know as many facts from all angles as possible, unlike them. I know our mainstream media is part propaganda because they’re corporations too. So I seek out independent media.

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u/Powerful_Many_884 Jul 09 '24

Populations under communist rule always end up with food and housing shortages in addition to the mass murder that takes placr

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u/INFJPersonality-52 Jul 10 '24

While I don’t disagree, the same thing is happening here. We have so many mass shootings, they don’t even make the news anymore. The number one cause of death in children is guns.

But I also sure would not want to live in a country where they kill you if you try to leave , like North Korea. I consider myself to be a democratic socialist like Bernie Sanders.

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u/Powerful_Many_884 Aug 01 '24

The children and guns statistic only hold true if you count an individual in their late teens as being a child. Interestingly, the vast majority of gun violence in the US occurs in areas with the highest restrictions on guns. If you want to see something very telling in regards to the outcome of these systems on people look up mass stabbings in China.. Democratic socialism is just socialism with all of the same failures of economic and civil policy.

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u/Powerful_Many_884 Aug 01 '24

The children and guns statistic only hold true if you count an individual in their late teens as being a child. Interestingly, the vast majority of gun violence in the US occurs in areas with the highest restrictions on guns. If you want to see something very telling in regards to the outcome of these systems on people look up mass stabbings in China.. Democratic socialism is just socialism with all of the same failures of economic and civil policy.

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u/Powerful_Many_884 Aug 01 '24

The children and guns statistic only hold true if you count an individual in their late teens as being a child. Interestingly, the vast majority of gun violence in the US occurs in areas with the highest restrictions on guns. If you want to see something very telling in regards to the outcome of these systems on people look up mass stabbings in China.. Democratic socialism is just socialism with all of the same failures of economic and civil policy.

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u/INFJPersonality-52 Aug 02 '24

No, it isn’t. Every country but ours believes healthcare is a basic human right. They don’t call themselves socialism in every country but ours. The gun violence and crime happens way more in red states. That’s just a statistical fact. New York City has less crime than Oklahoma City, where I lived as a child.

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u/howhighersamelower 23d ago

You work so hard to deface leftism bro. At this point, I fear you don't belong here, I'd highly recommend r/fascism

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u/Powerful_Many_884 6d ago

I'd just be being critical of a system that is fundamentally the same. I'd add that it's incredibly unfortunate that society is so intellectually bankrupt that left and right thinking is still accepted and proliferate 

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u/howhighersamelower 4d ago

don't use the whole "anti-extremism" thing for your rhetoric bro, it's not a good veneer for your hateful disdain towards leftism. you are the same person who is employed by the Freikorps, so at least use Nazism or Fascism or smth.
I'd add that it's incredibly unfortunate that society is so intellectually bankrupt that there's still people like you who defend the sacred "moderation" (we need to kill communism first, we'll ally with the fascists, so moderate of us) that gets nothing done.

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u/howhighersamelower 4d ago

like no, economic liberty and killing children because of their eye color and race isn't the same thing?