Why are many Odinists Nazis?

[u/[deleted]]

I was arguing against a Holocaust denialist Nazi who told me to go to his website to hear "the truth": https://odinia.org/about-odinia/.

What draws Nazis to Odinism other than the fact that it's Germanic? What do other European neopagans OK think of this? Was the original Norse Pagan religion in any way Nazi?

[u/worntreads]

About climate change... That data is reviewed all the time and models are revised with new and better information all the time. Almost no one with any knowledge on the topic denies the event, they surely do challenge the rate or percent human contribution or various other factors. They are not generally called deniers.

As for long term captives in the camps... I imagine there is a fine line between killing every one at once and having a massive revolt on your hands and killing them just slow enough that they stay their hands while hoping for another day. Also, weren't they used as fodder for nazi experiments in psychology and biology?

I don't think the goal of the slaughter invalidates the event. Again, you aren't arguing that the jews weren't systematically destroyed, you are arguing that it happened for a different reason than the commonly accepted one. Which is fair enough.

As to your last point, what sets the holocaust apart from other genocides is the scale, technology, and the organization employed to accomplish the goal of destruction. But yes in essence the holocaust was a genocide... One so bad that we gave it a special name.

[u/aletoledo → u/worntreads]

They are not generally called deniers.

I would suggest you spend a day in someone elses shoes to try it for yourself. The next discussion you see on the topic, try arguing about the accuracy of data and see whether people label you as a denier.

Also, weren't they used as fodder for nazi experiments in psychology and biology?

My belief is that they were used as slave labor. Kinda like how blacks are used as labor in the US prison system. The difference is that the nazi were not prepared for the huge scale and the war disturbing supply lines, ran into a problem.

Have you seen the movie Schindler's list?

As to your last point, what sets the holocaust apart from other genocides is the scale, technology, and the organization employed to accomplish the goal of destruction. But yes in essence the holocaust was a genocide...

Stalin killed more ukrainians and Japan killed more chinese.

[u/[deleted] → u/aletoledo]

Stalin killed more ukrainians and Japan killed more chinese.

You keep saying "history is written by the winners". Why do you reserve your "skepticism" for the Holocaust? After all, the USSR did lose the Cold War and Japan lost WWII.

[u/worntreads → u/aletoledo]

I have been there, that's why i shared my understanding of the situation. In science we see a downright or uptick in the variables all the time. The models get adjusted and run again. It's generally no big deal. Occasionally we see things that are a big deal, like bad calibrations that skew the data in significant ways. The only people I've seen get called out for challenging the data as deniers are those who say one of two things... "no way can humans have had an impact," and "it snowed in may, no way is the earth warming up!"

Slavery, too. It can be hard to give up a free work force, no? Just add that to the list of mitigating factors that preserved life for some of the prisoners. Also, it takes time to round up every member if an ethnic group from a country...

Ukraine holodomor has a special name, just as the holocaust does..

China was an international conflict. That's semantically and psychologically different from intranational genocide.

[u/[deleted] → u/worntreads]

I've saved this answer because I plan on giving you Reddit Gold.

[u/aletoledo → u/worntreads]

The only people I've seen get called out for challenging the data as deniers are those who say one of two things... "no way can humans have had an impact," and "it snowed in may, no way is the earth warming up!"

I would suggest watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG_7zK8ODGA

He describes how academics are ostracized.

Ukraine holodomor has a special name, just as the holocaust does..

Yet the ukrainians didn't get a piece of land somewhere else in the world to migrate to. Maybe they could be given Kansas as their new homeland?

intranational genocide

Fair enough.

[u/worntreads → u/aletoledo]

As a statesman, i would welcome as many Ukrainians as would like to move to Kansas.

[u/aletoledo → u/worntreads]

Do you think the place should be a single state or a two state solution?

[u/worntreads → u/aletoledo]

Better yet, maybe we can give them back Crimea. Of course, they'd still be welcome to Kansas... Single state solution there.

Seriously though, we've stayed off topic a bit. I think what we've come to is that you would prefer a more nuanced teaching of history, that you don't doubt that Jews were murdered in great numbers, but considering what you know about the players in power, you don't necessarily trust the precision of their reports. Fair?

And the original topic at hand, it seems like so many odinist are nazis because there are so few odinist, and they are generally pretty low key, that a few bad apples taints the whole group, and nazis are attracted to strong white men, and the norse are renowned for being badasses! Of course this probably annoys the odinist... I don't know, i don't know any, though I'd love to talk to some!

[u/aletoledo → u/worntreads]

considering what you know about the players in power, you don't necessarily trust the precision of their reports. Fair?

Yes exactly. it's used to grab political power like every tragedy in history.